Mueller Report Finally Released...

mchammer said:
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Just curious...is this analysis of "najor rebuke" from a consevative media source similar to the one that extrapolated that the Flynn judge was ready to dismiss the charges against him due to government "entrapment" yet ultimately did just the opposite? One would think that at some point you might learn the difference between what you HOPE to happen and what will happen is bias.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Just curious...is this analysis of "najor rebuke" from a consevative media source similar to the one that extrapolated that the Flynn judge was ready to dismiss the charges against him due to government "entrapment" yet ultimately did just the opposite? One would think that at some point you might learn the difference between what you HOPE to happen and what will happen is bias.
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Anybody that has your track record on accuracy doesn't need to talk about other people's accuracy. Just sayin'.
 
Garmel said:
Anybody that has your track record on accuracy doesn't need to talk about other people's accuracy. Just sayin'.
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That's easy to say when you never admit you're wrong, as I've done on multiple occasions. My goal here is to hold up the proverbial mirror despite attempts like yours to claim it doesn't exist. I'll do the same the next attempt by JoeFan and friends to claim "patriotism" too. You can thank me later.
 
Seattle Husker said:
That's easy to say when you never admit you're wrong, as I've done on multiple occasions. My goal here is to hold up the proverbial mirror despite attempts like yours to claim it doesn't exist. I'll do the same the next attempt by JoeFan and friends to claim "patriotism" too. You can thank me later.
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As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Do a search and you'll find that I have admitted to being wrong. However, when you take shots at Mchammer's accuracy with your track record I can't help but laugh.
 
Garmel said:
As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Do a search and you'll find that I have admitted to being wrong. However, when you take shots at Mchammer's accuracy with your track record I can't help but laugh.
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Lol! Searched for the word "wrong" and username Garmel. Navigated 5 pages to find 1 time you admitted your were wrong (Illegal immigrant in prison) and the rest were ACCUSING others of being wrong. Not so coincidentally, the one time you admitted you were wrong was the ONLY time in those 5 pages you attempted to use EVIDENCE to support your premise. The PERFECT Trump supporter in every way.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Lol! Searched for the word "wrong" and username Garmel. Navigated 5 pages to find 1 time you admitted your were wrong (Illegal immigrant in prison) and the rest were ACCUSING others of being wrong. Not so coincidentally, the one time you admitted you were wrong was the ONLY time in those 5 pages you attempted to use EVIDENCE to support your premise. The PERFECT Trump supporter in every way.
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I don't use links because i assume a person is an adult capable of doing research on their own. Trust me when i say that you MSM zombies need to do a lot of research to catch up with others who are living in reality. Usually, the only time I ask for links is when I can't find something on my own. BTW, you were saying there was no crisis on the border. What do you say now?
 
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Garmel said:
I don't use links because i assume a person is an adult capable of doing research on their own.
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Seriously? Did that work in school? My synopsis: the reason is because your claims are emotional claims void of any data claims that can be refuted. The one time you attempted to make a factual claim (ie. "20% of prison population are illegal immigrants") it blew up on you. In turn, you returned to emotional arguments that can't be refuted because they are devoid of facts like the incessant claim that any story you don't like is "fake news". That tactic helps preserve your world view rather than expose it's hypocrisy.

Garmel said:
BTW, you were saying there was no crisis on the border. What do you say now?
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It WASN'T a crisis at the time but later became one fueled by Trump Admin policies and rhetoric.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Seriously? Did that work in school? My synopsis: the reason is because your claims are emotional claims void of any data claims that can be refuted. The one time you attempted to make a factual claim (ie. "20% of prison population are illegal immigrants") it blew up on you. In turn, you returned to emotional arguments that can't be refuted because they are devoid of facts like the incessant claim that any story you don't like is "fake news". That tactic helps preserve your world view rather than expose it's hypocrisy.
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My claims are not emotional. The problem is that yours ARE emotional crap from the MSM. Yes, fake news is a problem. The MSM has issues with truth. Over and over they've made you look like a fool (Covington kids) but you won't admit it's a problem.

It WASN'T a crisis at the time but later became one fueled by Trump Admin policies and rhetoric.
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I'm the one making emotional arguments?:lmao:
 
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Garmel said:
My claims are not emotional. The problem is that yours ARE emotional crap from the MSM.
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Now we venture into an absurd level of emotional appeal.

Garmel said:
Yes, fake news is a problem. The MSM has issues with truth. Over and over they've made you look like a fool(Covington kids)but you won't admit it's a problem.
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You follow-up the previous sentiment with validation of my premise combined with a strawman argument. First, do you want to rest your laurel's on the time you the media was shown to be biased vs all the times they were RIGHT? Careful, you've screamed "FAKE NEWS" to nearly every dis favorable article about the Trump Admin. Here's a wager, they were right a much higher % than they were wrong based on your claim of Fake News. It's an easy enough wager...go back and validate your claims of Fake News and determine if ultimately what was written was validated by later information, like the Mueller report. Deal? They were YOUR claims so I shouldn't have tosupport them for you...with evidence.

That doesn't forgive any bias or lack of verification journalistic practices. They need tobe better on their accuracy even though 100% is an unrealistic goal.

Garmel said:
I'm the one making emotional arguments?
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Yes. Notice I didn't say I never make emotional claims but when relevant I've often supported my positions with facts and data. Reference the immigration discussions I've had over the value of immigration to the economy.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Now we venture into an absurd level of emotional appeal.



You follow-up the previous sentiment with validation of my premise combined with a strawman argument. First, do you want to rest your laurel's on the time you the media was shown to be biased vs all the times they were RIGHT? Careful, you've screamed "FAKE NEWS" to nearly every dis favorable article about the Trump Admin. Here's a wager, they were right a much higher % than they were wrong based on your claim of Fake News. It's an easy enough wager...go back and validate your claims of Fake News and determine if ultimately what was written was validated by later information, like the Mueller report. Deal? They were YOUR claims so I shouldn't have tosupport them for you...with evidence.

That doesn't forgive any bias or lack of verification journalistic practices. They need tobe better on their accuracy even though 100% is an unrealistic goal.

P.S. -The Mueller Report is rife with political garbage. Believe it at your own risk.

Yes. Notice I didn't say I never make emotional claims but when relevant I've often supported my positions with facts and data. Reference the immigration discussions I've had over the value of immigration to the economy.
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I have not yelled "Fake News" on every negative thing. There are negative reports that are true and they are probably right more than 50%. However, there is a lot of crapola and the error rate is way too high. Even if the news they put out is real they have a nasty problem of leaving key elements of the story out. If you don't believe me watch how wrong you're going to be when the FBI stuff starts coming out. You're in for an unpleasant surprise. I watch and read the MSM. They do appeal to emotion so doen't tell me they don't. They behave as an extension of the Democrat party. Their bias is off the chart. No doubt LEGAL immigration leads to a lot of good things in this country. Illegal immigration doesn't for the most part.

P.S. -The Mueller Report is a too political to be taken seriously. Believe it at your own risk.
 
Garmel said:
My claims are not emotional. The problem is that yours ARE emotional crap from the MSM. Yes, fake news is a problem. The MSM has issues with truth. Over and over they've made you look like a fool (Covington kids) but you won't admit it's a problem.



I'm the one making emotional arguments?:lmao:
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On this point, yes the Trump Admin contributed to this problem with multiple policy decisions. I'd cite links where appropriate but on my phone at the moment.

1. The exxagerated rhetoric AGAINST immigration makes it appear this is the last opportunity to get into the US. The attempt to alter the immigration sytem (eg, called merit based), the wall, etc.(Subjective)
2. Ending of funds to immigrant source countries exacerbating economic and law enforcement challenges.(Objective)
3. Decision NOT to add immigration judges in 2017 but rather wait until 2019 to increase the number of judges. (Objective)
4. Restrictions put on LEGAL crossings and must remain in Mexico while asylum claim is adjudicated forces would be legal immigrants to cross illegally. (Objective)

That's just off the top of my head. All of these action had a direct impact on exacerbating the illegal immigration problem.
 
Seattle Husker said:
On this point, yes the Trump Admin contributed to this problem with multiple policy decisions. I'd cite links where appropriate but on my phone at the moment.

1. The exxagerated rhetoric AGAINST immigration makes it appear this is the last opportunity to get into the US. The attempt to alter the immigration sytem (eg, called merit based), the wall, etc.(Subjective)
2. Ending of funds to immigrant source countries exacerbating economic and law enforcement challenges.(Objective)
3. Decision NOT to add immigration judges in 2017 but rather wait until 2019 to increase the number of judges. (Objective)
4. Restrictions put on LEGAL crossings and must remain in Mexico while asylum claim is adjudicated forces would be legal immigrants to cross illegally. (Objective)

That's just off the top of my head.
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You could make the argument that is all subjective. You can also make the subjective argument that the dems with their sanctuary cities are luring people to come here. You can also say that the number one thing drawing them here is a good Trump economy as well. That's why blaming Trump for all of this is ridiculous.
 
Garmel said:
I have not yelled "Fake News" on every negative thing. There are negative reports that are true and they are probably right more than 50%. However, there is a lot of crapola and the error rate is way too high. Even if the news they put out is real they have a nasty problem of leaving key elements of the story out. If you don't believe me watch how wrong you're going to be when the FBI stuff starts coming out. You're in for an unpleasant surprise. I watch and read the MSM. They do appeal to emotion so doen't tell me they don't. They behave as an extension of the Democrat party. Their bias is off the chart. No doubt LEGAL immigration leads to a lot of good things in this country. Illegal immigration doesn't for the most part.

P.S. -The Mueller Report is a too political to be taken seriously. Believe it at your own risk.
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I was with you until you walked off a cliff with your argument into partisan talking points. For the briefest of moments you were rational.

Need to give you credit where it's due. While it seems like every other post you make screams "Fake News", only 69 of your ~2,500 posts have used that term.
 
Garmel said:
You could make the argument that is all subjective. You can also make the subjective argument that the dems with their sanctuary cities are luring people to come here. You can also say that the number one thing drawing them here is a good Trump economy as well. That's why blaming Trump for all of this is ridiculous.
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You'd be right that all of those could be contributing factors albeit naming it "Trump's" economy is a bit much. That doesn't invalidate my points above nor my claim the Trump admin is contributing to the problem.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I was with you until you walked off a cliff with your argument into partisan talking points. For the briefest of moments you were rational.

Need to give you credit where it's due. While it seems like every other post you make screams "Fake News", only 69 of your ~2,500 posts have used that term.
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Every thing I said was 100% correct. Like every conservative here I watch/read MSM and look at conservative news as well. You only watch watch/read MSM. The problem is that you only see the world through a heavily slanted viewpoint. That's why most of the arguments you have here end up being wrong in the end.
 
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Seattle Husker said:
You'd be right that all of those could be contributing factors albeit naming it "Trump's" economy is a bit much. That doesn't invalidate my points above nor my claim the Trump admin is contributing to the problem.
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The problem lies ultimately with the people jumping the border or staying past the green card date. Blaming politicians is futile because they aren't responsible for other people's illegal actions.

Edit- It's Trump's economy. Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy
 
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SH, I agree that Trump immigration policy change did contribute to "the crisis". I have seen data from separate sources that the number of immigrants coming to the border isn't all that high historically, but that the number of immigrants detained at the border is very high, though it was also as high at times during the Obama administration.

I think the main difference is that Trump's policy has been to enforce the law. When the border situation became serious under Obama, the policy was to let immigrants into the country for a future court date. Trump isn't doing that.

At the same time, the infrastructure at the border didn't change in order to accommodate the increase in detainees. That is on Congress.
 
Garmel said:
Every thing I said was 100% correct. Like every conservative here I watch/read MSM and look at conservative news as well. You only watch watch/read MSM. The problem is that you only see the world through a heavily slanted viewpoint. That's why most of the arguments you have here end up being wrong in the end.
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Read and acknowledged that our debate skills are incompatible. Have a good day while I seek out a deeper more meaningful debate.
 
Monahorns said:
SH, I agree that Trump immigration policy change did contribute to "the crisis". I have seen data from separate sources that the number of immigrants coming to the border isn't all that high historically, but that the number of immigrants detained at the border is very high, though it was also as high at times during the Obama administration.

I think the main difference is that Trump's policy has been to enforce the law. When the border situation became serious under Obama, the policy was to let immigrants into the country for a future court date. Trump isn't doing that.

At the same time, the infrastructure at the border didn't change in order to accommodate the increase in detainees. That is on Congress.
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I stated in the wall thread that border captures at the time weren't near historical highs of the 90's. They finally reached that level a few months ago. Part of that is due to policies forcing immigrants into purposeful illegal entry with the specific intention of getting caught. Like water, they'll find a way.

Was the previous administration violating immigration laws when they released immigrants pending court trials? For all the grief Obama gets because he had a (D) next to his name, he deported 2.9M people so clearly the story that his admin was simply releasing individuals into the USA never to be seen again is inaccurate or at least incomplete. In fact, one study I read showed a greater than 90% return rate for those released with ankle bracelets, which is a viable method. I'd prefer they all be expedited through immigration courts but at current there is a >1yr backlog so that may not be feasible. Deportation for those individuals who legally do not meet the various immigration reasons is perfectly acceptable.
 
Garmel said:
Whatever/wherever that debate will be I know for a fact that you'll be on the losing end of it. Good day to you too.
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I owe you a little more detail to my earlier barb.

You never SHOW you are right through evidence but merely CLAIM you are right. When asked why you don't provide evidence you literally claimed it was your opponents job to research your claims which is why you don't provide links to backup your claims. That's gradeschool level debate and not worth anyone's time or effort. It seems your role here is to cheerlead. Embrace it.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I owe you a little more detail to my earlier barb.

You never SHOW you are right through evidence but merely CLAIM you are right. When asked why you don't provide evidence you literally claimed it was your opponents job to research your claims which is why you don't provide links to backup your claims. That's gradeschool level debate and not worth anyone's time or effort. It seems your role here is to cheerlead. Embrace it.
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Sorry, but this isn't school. MSM zombies such as yourself need to research, especially from sources that are foreign to you because it's good for you. However, if you really want I'll start showing more links since you're too lazy/scared to venture out of your comfort zone. It's your role to be the clown that's always wrong that we all laugh at. Embrace it.

Edit-Never show evidence? LOL! Remember when I buried you with that Trump video when you said that Trump never talked about other ways for Mexico to pay for the wall?
 
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Was the previous administration violating immigration laws when they released immigrants pending court trials? For all the grief Obama gets because he had a (D) next to his name, he deported 2.9M people so clearly the story that his admin was simply releasing individuals into the USA never to be seen again is inaccurate or at least incomplete. In fact, one study I read showed a greater than 90% return rate for those released with ankle bracelets, which is a viable method. I'd prefer they all be expedited through immigration courts but at current there is a >1yr backlog so that may not be feasible. Deportation for those individuals who legally do not meet the various immigration reasons is perfectly acceptable.
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I think Obama was hit and miss on immigration. Maybe he was torn between doing what he thought was acceptable and what he really thought was right. I don't know.

But I do know he was pretty closed borders in some ways and permissible towards DACA. And he admitted he didn't have the Constitutional authority to allow people to stay in the US illegally until he went ahead and did it anyway.

So yes, he didn't always enforce law correctly. But then sometimes he did. Then Trump comes along and wants to enforce it more consistently and the media and Progressives go ape ****.
 
Monahorns said:
I think Obama was hit and miss on immigration. Maybe he was torn between doing what he thought was acceptable and what he really thought was right. I don't know.
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I think that's a fair characterization. He stepped up enforcement and went after employers some. He didn't do nearly enough, but he was probably an improvement over the previous two administrations which were terrible. On the other hand, he handed down DACA and DAPA, which he knew and admitted to be illegal.
 
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