'Lynch Mob' of Repub senators against Cruz!
- Thread starter Roger35
- Start date
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
In reply to:
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
The Right gets a book. You guys never quit. How many books on McCarthy do I need to cite? I personally like Naming Names even though it focuses on a relatively small area of the abuses of HUAC and McCarthy.
The biggest abuse by McCarthy and HUAC was the assumption that being a member of the communist party at some point meant you were an agent of the Soviet Union. It is disgusting guilt by association and utterly improper. It ignores what happened in the 1930's during the economic collapse. There never was anything wrong with being a communist (or fascist) provided you did not advocate the violent overthrow of the US government.
That there were people who were one time members of the communist party in the 1930's was hardly surprising given the economic turmoil. This was not a crime (although it damn sure was treated like one). That virtually none of these people advocated the violent overthrow of the US government or spied for the Soviet Union is unquestionable. It is also unquestionable that none of these people made up the senior leadership of a political party (one could make a very convincing argument that FDR saved capitalism).
But you guys are the energizer bunnies of historic revisionism.
The biggest abuse by McCarthy and HUAC was the assumption that being a member of the communist party at some point meant you were an agent of the Soviet Union. It is disgusting guilt by association and utterly improper. It ignores what happened in the 1930's during the economic collapse. There never was anything wrong with being a communist (or fascist) provided you did not advocate the violent overthrow of the US government.
That there were people who were one time members of the communist party in the 1930's was hardly surprising given the economic turmoil. This was not a crime (although it damn sure was treated like one). That virtually none of these people advocated the violent overthrow of the US government or spied for the Soviet Union is unquestionable. It is also unquestionable that none of these people made up the senior leadership of a political party (one could make a very convincing argument that FDR saved capitalism).
But you guys are the energizer bunnies of historic revisionism.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
I think we can all agree that being communist isn't illegal and doesn't mean you are working for a foreign government. The people you are responding to don't look or believe like that straw man.
The main issue I have is that declassified documents from the US, USSR, and China have proved who was working with the Soviets during the cold war. Do you disagree with the USSR's and KGB's documents?
FDR crippled capitalism with his domestic policy but protected the country by leading us through war. If you want to call that saving capitalism, so be it. But he saved it just to hang an ever growing weight around its neck.
The main issue I have is that declassified documents from the US, USSR, and China have proved who was working with the Soviets during the cold war. Do you disagree with the USSR's and KGB's documents?
FDR crippled capitalism with his domestic policy but protected the country by leading us through war. If you want to call that saving capitalism, so be it. But he saved it just to hang an ever growing weight around its neck.
D
dillohorn
Guest
paso.......you and your dem/lib friends love throwing "bombs" and using any smear tactic that you can come up with. You need to take an ethics class in the worst way.
alger hiss was a communist and was a high ranking official.
McCarthy kept claiming he could name x number of such traitors in the government and never did.
His own party turned against him and he was censured.
The liberal complaint against him was not that he was wrong about communism or possible spies but that he was wildly reckless about his accusations.
THe soviet archives bear our that fact as well
McCarthy kept claiming he could name x number of such traitors in the government and never did.
His own party turned against him and he was censured.
The liberal complaint against him was not that he was wrong about communism or possible spies but that he was wildly reckless about his accusations.
THe soviet archives bear our that fact as well
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Henry Wallace who was a VP at one point was communicating with the Soviets. That's the one off the top of my head. Alger Hiss was documented by the Soviets as working with them. I have read about others but will leave it to you to look up if you are truly interested. A member of a Presidential Administration ranks as high enough level to me. The point isn't to quibble about definitions, but just to show that there have been people in the US government who were Communist and sympathizing with the Soviets while our adversaries.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
No Monahorns... NONE of it was true. Didn't you read his post? NONE!
My point - and the point of people like the author - isn't to make McCarthy a hero. It's to point out that large segments of the left has consistently silenced any thought that communism might be a negative force. They pushed Stalin as ... we.., as NOT a monster. They backed Ortega. They backed Castro. A few of them even backed Chavez. Basically if you want lib support, raise an army, start a revolution and claim that your country's socialist now. They'll throw you a benefit and make a documentary of your life.
The point is that that name-calling and finger-pointing always comes out rather than addressing the issue. It's not enough that Cruz is wrong for pushing for a conditional shutdown - he has to be EVIL. He has to be a monster!
It's not revising history to say that oh, by the way, it turns out we did have an issue with communists and Stalin agents in the state department.
And if you'll notice that chango - rather than actually addressing the points raised by the author - changes the subject to something that as far as I know, the author never claims. Because it's easier than admitting that someone on the right has a point about something or that someone on the left is wrong about something.
My point - and the point of people like the author - isn't to make McCarthy a hero. It's to point out that large segments of the left has consistently silenced any thought that communism might be a negative force. They pushed Stalin as ... we.., as NOT a monster. They backed Ortega. They backed Castro. A few of them even backed Chavez. Basically if you want lib support, raise an army, start a revolution and claim that your country's socialist now. They'll throw you a benefit and make a documentary of your life.
The point is that that name-calling and finger-pointing always comes out rather than addressing the issue. It's not enough that Cruz is wrong for pushing for a conditional shutdown - he has to be EVIL. He has to be a monster!
It's not revising history to say that oh, by the way, it turns out we did have an issue with communists and Stalin agents in the state department.
And if you'll notice that chango - rather than actually addressing the points raised by the author - changes the subject to something that as far as I know, the author never claims. Because it's easier than admitting that someone on the right has a point about something or that someone on the left is wrong about something.
Pasotex: Hiss was not an official of the democratic party but he was high enough up in the state department to be head of the US delegation to the founding of the UN in San Francisco. By the way, our government bugged every hotel room in SanFrancisco to spy on the other delegates,. We still do that kind of thing which is why I think keeping the UN in new york is still a bargain for us.
AustinBat
2,500+ Posts
6721 - I meant the brain- challenged 35. I know the difference, and certainly didn't mean to insult Roger! Roger35 cannot be insulted because he can't absorb any information other than his drivel. I am offended that he ends every post with a "hook 'em." I just pray that he never went anywhere near the 40 acres. Otherwise our academic problems are as serious as our athletic problems.
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
Henry Wallace was a Democrat and then ran for President on the Progressive ticket. He was never a communist. It is reflective of the pathetic John Birch Society/McCarthy narrow minded thinking to believe that anyone who favors a more liberal or progressive role for the government in providing for the poor or needy is a "communist".
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
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