Look at the non-conference resume

W

Wulaw Horn

1,000+ Posts
OK- I wanted to see UT go 2-1 against the three legit teams we had left non-conference. We still can. I was leary of Wiscy and thought that'd be our loss, but if we can win at Wiscy and at Arkansas that makes up for our MSU loss.

Qualityish wins against non-horrible teams

St. Joes- neutral
Oregon- Neutral
Tulane
(at Arky)

Legit teams we beat

UCLA- home
Villanova- Roadish
(Wisconsin)

Cupcakes (5 wins)

Losses-

ND- Neutral- 1 point
MSU- Homish- led with 15 seconds remaining

I don't know how many teams have a better non-conference resume then the horns do at this minute.

I would guess that if we win out in non-conference we'd get credit for beating 3 or 4 tourney teams and 3 or 4 NIT type teams, while losing by a total of 5 points to 2 tourney teams.

I was hoping for 1 loss, expecting 2. The real problem with the non-conference schedule to me isn't our record, but having the one loss in Hawaii being to ND instead of UNC.

Still, I like our non-conference resume better than, say, Gonzaga or something like that. I'd also say that we have better scalps on the wall then say, Oklahoma. And we avoided any bad losses like a Louisville or Syracuse or MSU getting drilled by Maryland.

Gotta win at Arky and at Wiscy, that makes for a fairly decent n/c schedule, even if people have been frustrated about some up and down play (myself included) and a team showing a lot of warts at this point in time.
 
If we can win in Madison and Fayetteville, we should be fine come tournament time. If we go, say, 11-5 in conference, our resume would indicate no lower than a 4 seed. Anything better than 11-5 in conference and we could go up from there.

The Notre Dame and MSU losses are frustrating because we really could/should have won both. Even a split of those two and we could be looking at more of a #1 or #2 seed line possibility. We'd need an extremely good conference record to get to that level at this point.

Need to win tonight.
 
Well, mission accomplished versus Wiscy.
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HornJD- my thoughts exactly on this team.

I happen to think that 11-5 in conference would be good for a 4 seed- and call it every win above 11 moves us up a seeding line.

So I'd bet 12-4 is good for a 3, 13-3 good for a 2 and 14-2 or better is good for a 1 seed.

I happen to think that we can go 14-2 or better so I'm certainly not giving up hope there.

This analysis all depends on winning at Arky, imo, so if we lose there subtract a seed line for each victory imo.

But nothing we've done non-conference has detracted from our tourney position. And I'd sure as hell take our non conference resume over Wake Forest or Ohio State or Oklahoma or someone like that who is undefeated but doesn't have near as impressive a collection of scalps on their wall as we do on ours.
 
I'm not saying OU hasn't beaten anyone, I'm saying that I'd take UT's wins over UCLA, @Nova and @ Wiscy over any of OU's wins that you listed.

Do you think if OU would have gone out to Hawaii that they would have come home undefeated?

I fully expect to win both games against the sooners. Laugh at me if you wish, mock me etc but I just happen to think UT is flat better than OU.

I thought it before the season and nothing I've seen so far, from both teams, has led me to change my opinion.

I do think Griffin is a unanimous all american and I didn't see him that way to start the year. I was wrong about how good he is.
 
Also I'd put UT's wins in Maui against St. Joes and Oregon up at the end of the year against USC, VCU and Tulsa for OU.
 
Very solid non-con schedule. So far our play has been very solid. The only guys with no problems might be North Carolina. We are a possible 3 seed and might make a 2 with a good conference tourny.
 
no- that's more me being completely unimpressed with those wins you listed. VCU and tulsa will undoubtedly have better records playing in weaker conferences. I'm betting oregon and Usc split their series and end up with similar pac 10 records.

And my point stands that UT has 3 victories better than any of OU's at this point in time, which was my point in saying UT had more scalps on the wall then OU.
 
And my point is that no one's in conference season yet so you can't use the weaker conference card to dismiss a teams record for good or bad.

St. Joe's & Oregon are bad teams who haven't really played a great schedule. All the quality teams I mentioned are better than them, plus one win I didn't mention which was Utah.


In reply to:
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You are going to be much less impressed with that Purdue win when MSU and Wiscy both work purdue over in conference play. Yes, I'd take Wiscy at Madison and UCLA and Nova all to beat Purdue, which is yall's best win.
 
Purdue won at Wisconsin last year, and this year's Wisconsin team is not as good as that one was.

But I am not sure about Purdue... DDS, don't take this the wrong way, but I thought OU coming back on Purdue was something OU should have done. They had by far the best player on the floor, and matched up well at other positions -- it was their own fault that they got way behind.

Duke shut down Purdue for 40 minutes, not just 20... that's what OU should have done to Purdue. I tend to agree with Wulaw that MSU and Wisconsin might be better -- question is whether they will be better the night they play, like OU almost wasn't.
 
Bob, I think that's fair, just not sure what your point is. OU is better than Purdue. OU only played well for a half & still beat the #9 team in the country (and pre-season Big 10 favorite) on a neutral court.

That's what I took away from that game.


Wulaw, I just disagree. UT does not have 3 better wins than against #9 Purdue on a neutral court.
 
I just looked at Purdue's schedule. They have played 3 good teams and lost 2 times. The only "good" team that they beat was Davidson, who I would bet would go about 7-9 in the big 12 if they had to play a rigorous schedule, every night.

We'll see as the season plays out, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
 
Purdue also beat a pretty good Boston College squad on neutral court.

And I believe Davidson is much better than you think they are.

Yep, time will tell.
 
Davidson had all they could handle from College of Charleston for about 34 minutes tonight.

And I'm not trying to sell Oregon as a great team, I'm saying that it's an ok win and I think they'll be a middle of the road pac 10 team, just like USC will be a middle of the road pac 10 team.

Purdue is about the 4th or 5th best team in the big televen behind MSU, Wiscy, Illinois and Michigan. I love Beilein. It'll be interesting to watch him resurrect that program imo.

Purdue will get exposed as the level of competition steps up and Ohio State is a fraud, as they started to prove the other night.

I think the big televen is up this year and the second best conference, overall, behind only the big east. They don't have the dynamic teams to match UNC or Duke but I like the balance of their conference and competitiveness top to bottom. Didn't they go 5-6 this year in the shootout? When they usually get drilled?

Maybe I'll go with the ACC as #2 due to bonus points at the top of the conference but I'll take the big televen at 3 at the worst, the Big 12 at 4 and the Pac 10 and SEC as verrrry verrrry bad. If the Valley was up this year (which they are not) I'd maybe take them over one of those 2 bottom feeding conferences from the bcs- they are as bad as I've seen them in the last 10 or 15 years imo. Not much quality at the top and not much quality depth. They are going to get few teams in the tourney and they are not going far imo.
 
I'm not getting caught up in name brand by disparaging Davidson, I love steph curry. But the fact of the matter is they are at a deficit in 4 out of 5 spots playing against any tourney team this year.
 
I put arky in the same class as Wiscy and Michigan State earlier in my post saying taken as a group I wanted texas to go 2-1 against those 3 teams.

Obviously they are packing OU's **** right now with about 10 minutes left.

Purdue loses to Illinois tonight, like I said I expect Purdue to be about 5th in the big televen and a national ranking of #9 in the country for the Boilers is just silly.

looks like, based upon results of tonight I just might know what the hell I'm talking about.

Again, the point I've been trying to make that I feel you are failing to grasp is not that OU is garbage, it's just that I believe them to be way overranked at #4 (like 10 or 15 spots) and that I don't think they are as good as Texas, and that I don't think their accomplishments pre-season match up with UT.

The arky game, at arky, has scared me all year. It's not so much that there is any embarrassment in losing to them at their place, it's just not something that a really good team should do, imo.

Also- I would say that a texas win at arky is harder than an OU win at arky due to the pathological hatred of their program for us. It's a jihad game against us while it's only just a really big game for them against you.

The big east and big ten are monsters this year, and the big 12 is seriously down. That's what my entire point was when I've said UT will contend for a 1 seed and I like them to win the conference hopefully at something like 14-2.
 
Also, I'm well aware Davidson made an elite 8 last year as something like a 10 seed.

But, they lost a couple starters including a point guard that took some responsibility off Curry and it was a bit flukish.

Put it to you this way, George Mason went to a final four 3 or 4 years ago and that didn't mean I was slobering all over them the next year.

Teams get hot and teams get cold in the tourney. Davidson was not anywhere near the 8th best team in the country last year, just like they aren't some monster this year. And they were better last year then this year imo.
 
Hey- I'm arguing on a whole bunch of different levels here bob.

Not only am I not buying them as a top 10 team but I don't think too terribly much of their schedule either, meaning purdue, davidson, vcu, usc et al.

Didn't see the game tonight (except for last minute), but it is interesting to me that OU lost their first road game.

Look at texas non-conference schedule. 7 road/neutral games and only 7 home games. I'm assuming OU had 2 neutral games, 1 road game and 10 or 11 home games?

That makes a difference too.

And the MSU game Texas played was definately neutral in my mind. I was there and there was at least half the building rooting against us. Very much like an NCAA tourney experience.

3 neutral in Maui, 1 neutral in h-town, 1 neutral in NYC that was more roadish, and road games in Wiscy and Ark. That's a pretty good schedule and a pretty good body of work if we can beat arky, which i'm not assuming as a given, even before they beat OU tonight.
 
Well, they did play at Rice.

As far as the overall n-c schedule, OU's will take a hit with the last two games. But right now, Sagarin has OU's schedule rated ahead of Texas's, and Pomeroy doesn't have Texas that far ahead.

I don't think it matters all that much. OU tested itself enough in the n-c not to be hurt in regard to a seed. Texas's schedule is more likely to give them a boost with the committee but I don't think that the difference gives you an idea of which team would be better when they play.
 
And what do you know, Michigan State and Wiscy both have wins vs Ranked teams today.

I'm looking like a genius the past 3 days. Subject to change of course. dang dirty- you are getting owned here right now
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That USC v Oregon game was later than my last post, and since then USC had a horrible loss to Oregon State. Purdue of course lost to Penn State.

I didn't give OU too much crap for losing to Arky, and the world won't end b/c UT lost to those guys either.

The fact of the matter is that OU is looking more and more like they had zero high quality wins while UT looks like their quality wins might consist of UCLA and Wiscy at home, for whatever consideration you want to give them (nova is looking like nothing special the same way I poo poo'd the OU v Purdue win)

KU with the nice win over Tenn but other than that and the aforementioned UT wins n/c this was a bad year for the big 12 out of league play.

I believed Texas to be the best team in a seriously down conference before the year and I've seen absolutely nothing to change my opinion of that.

On to conference play.
 
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