Israel = the Good Guys in the Middle East; Turks proving to be our enemies

I wonder how many college students are Okay with Hamas rapes because their religion sanctions rape? Not many I'd bet.I like almost every Jew I have ever met, but no more than Muslims who have offered me hospitality and conversation. Is there any way we can engage the best in people?
 
I see the pain on Gaza and I want peace and justice. But who in power over there cares about innocents? Hamas? Netanyahu?
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Crockett said:
I see the pain on Gaza and I want peace and justice. But who in power over there cares about innocents? Hamas? Netanyahu?
.
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No one on either side.

If you listen to many, they say no one is innocent because of support for Hamas or the Israeli state. It is dehumanizing rhetoric used to justify atrocities. Not sure there can be peace between the two sides. I'm sure it is possible within some permutation, but not likely.

Best case for America is to not be involved. Let them fight it out on their own.
 
Hamas murdered another hostage--a father of 3:

Israeli hostage confirmed dead

Dror-Or-ht-gmh-240502_1714683497768_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg
 
Below is a photo of the floating pier being constructed by the US for aid trucks to be able to land and enter Gaza. Personnel working on the pier were reportedly attacked by Hamas.

israel-gaza-3-ap-gmh-240430_1714481505724_hpMain_sl_3x2.jpg
 
I wonder if there were any nice people among the 34,000 dead in Gaza ...numerous among them women and children?
 
Another exemplar anti-Israel spokesperson, Louis Farrakhan, weighs in.

The Nation of Islam leader claims he received a divine revelation from the Great Wheel, hovering 40 miles above the Earth, that Netanyahu staged the Oct. 7 massacre. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Farrakhan openly threatened genocide, shouting to Israelis, “You’ve been weighed in the balance. Your kingdom is numbered—and finished.”
louis-farrakhan_0-880x495.jpeg



https://www.jns.org/louis-farrakhan-delivers-a-genocidal-message-to-israel/
 
Monahorns said:
Best case for America is to not be involved. Let them fight it out on their own.
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Perhaps we could consider that a best case if the ‘other’ side wasn’t supported by outside involvement. Heck I don’t know, but I know it has been beyond resolution for longer than any other worldly conflict.
 
Crockett said:
I wonder if there were any nice people among the 34,000 dead in Gaza ...numerous among them women and children?
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Of course there were. Some Gazans have been conditioned to think like Hamas. They hate Israel and want to see them destroyed. But many if not most don't think that way. They just want get a good job and raise a family like most people.

There are many Jewish people who are protesting their government's actions to. In my mind this isn't really Israel vs Gaza. It is the state of Israel vs Hamas, but both sides consider all Israel=state of Israel and all Gazans=Hamas. This is collectivism. The alternative is methodological individualism. That doesn't mean individuals exist in a vacuum or unconnected to other in the community. But it does mean that we can understand that individuals have their own interests and goals which don't conform to the interests and goals of others they share ethnic or national ties to.
 
nashhorn said:
Perhaps we could consider that a best case if the ‘other’ side wasn’t supported by outside involvement. Heck I don’t know, but I know it has been beyond resolution for longer than any other worldly conflict.
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Both sides are supported from the outside. But think clearly about the resources brought to bear by both sides. Israel is an actual government with an actual military supported by tax dollars from a reasonably prosperous country. Hamas is a terrorist organization with small guerilla warfare capability. What they did on 10/7 was outside of their expected capability and aided by inattention and slow reaction time on the side of Israeli defense. Yesterday they killed 3 people which is the first time I have heard they have killed anyone since 10/7. Israel has more than enough capability to defend themselves from Hamas without foreign aid from the US.
 
Monahorns said:
Israel has more than enough capability to defend themselves from Hamas
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Probably true. It’s the outside forces that they could not withstand if they combined against them. There is no possible way they could contend against a constant continuous bombardment such as they withstood in the barrage of 100’s of missiles they miraculously defended from Iran. Without replenishing their defenses they would be helpless against such an overwhelming attack if endless.
 
Crockett said:
Some media outlets don't have to shout down or ignore bringers of facts and well reasoned opinions that don't fit their general narrative. They appeal to audiences seeking information rather than validation
.
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True, which is why it is so surprising CNN found themselves in that category this one time.
 
nashhorn said:
Probably true. It’s the outside forces that they could not withstand if they combined against them. There is no possible way they could contend against a constant continuous bombardment such as they withstood in the barrage of 100’s of missiles they miraculously defended from Iran. Without replenishing their defenses they would be helpless against such an overwhelming attack if endless.
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They have already won two wars like that in 1967 and 1973. Today Israel is signing agreements with countries like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. They are in a more secure position now than they were.
 
Crockett said:
I wonder how many college students are Okay with Hamas rapes because their religion sanctions rape? Not many I'd bet.I like almost every Jew I have ever met, but no more than Muslims who have offered me hospitality and conversation. Is there any way we can engage the best in people?
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Crockett said:
I see the pain on Gaza and I want peace and justice. But who in power over there cares about innocents? Hamas? Netanyahu?
.
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My ideal solution would be a Palestinian and a Jewish state with free trade between them. (I'd even like to see free movement of people, but there's nowhere near enough trust for that.) The problem is twofold. For starters, far too many Palestinians would view any sort of compromise that tolerates a Jewish state as betrayal - enough that any Palestinian state would almost certainly become a massive platform for terrorism and of course an Iranian proxy state, much like the Palestinian areas have already become but even worse. The bottom line is that most of them simply don't want a Jewish state in the area - at all.

Second, the hardliners in Israel don't want a Palestinian state either. Of course, there are moderates in Israel who were more open to it than guys like Netanyahu, and there used to be far more of them. They were likely even a majority at one time. (Remember that Netanyahu has been defeated by more conciliatory figures before.) However, they've seen how the Palestinians have responded to offers of a state, and large numbers of them are now convinced that it isn't practical. So at least on this issue, they align with Netanyahu, and after 10/7, they're even more aligned with him and want Hamas completely destroyed.
 
Mr. Deez said:
My ideal solution would be a Palestinian and a Jewish state with free trade between them.
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Facts: Over the years, various two state solutions have been agreed to by Israel, and proposed to the Palestinian Arabs by the International community (the UN, etc.). Such two-state solutions have been repeatedly rejected by the Palestinian Arabs. They have proven time-and-again to not want a 2 state solution, and to not want a lasting peace with Israel.

"Oh, but this time's different" says the naive types...
 
Chop said:
Facts: Over the years, various two state solutions have been agreed to by Israel, and proposed to the Palestinian Arabs by the International community (the UN, etc.). Such two-state solutions have been repeatedly rejected by the Palestinian Arabs. They have proven time-and-again to not want a 2 state solution, and to not want a lasting peace with Israel.

"Oh, but this time's different" says the naive types...
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You're absolutely right. The Palestinians simply don't want a 2-state solution. They want one state - their own and nothing else.
 
Horn6721 said:
On this issue this Dude Rocks
Pro-Hamas Supporters Accosted This GOP Congressman. What He Said Was Priceless.
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Also in your link was the following audio of an actual conversation between an IDF officer attempting to convince a Gazan to evacuate his (large) family before the Israelites strike a nearby bank.



You can really see the inner mindset of Israel and of Gaza.

The Gazan: "Strike us then. Do whatever you want. We want to die. And our children also must die. We don't want the peace that comes from you. We love death the way you love life. We don't want the kindness that comes from you. Do as you please."
 
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Turks blame Jews for big flooding in Turkey.



So, who will they blame if there's a drought in Turkey in the Summer?
 
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