Interesting new development

[Chop]

Who we want is Stanford, the other private school.

Now you're on to something...



"USC will probably have the Trojan channel."

 

[SabreHorn]

What percentage of the population is from Arizona?

What percentage has any affiliation with either of those schools?

I ASU's business school is so great, why can't the graduates get jobs? Why are their MBAs so desperate that they'll take BBA salaries or less?

To support your argument, SMU has a higher academic ranking than eight of the schools in the Big XII.

 

[X Misn Tx]

While Rice is an excellent school, the Stanford endowment is much larger.

THAT's WHAT SHE...nm

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

Stanford, Berzerkley, & the Cali-prune-ya legislature shut that down. It'll be an extraordinary say before it gets that close again.

California legislature does not control either private school USC nor Stanford. PAC12 is a mess with no TV revenue despite great TV markets because they are doing it themselves. USC and Stanford and the AZ schools need the Prestige of a B14 conference and the TV revenue that would flow to them..

 

[SabreHorn]

USC is tied to UCLA

Stanford is tied to Berzerkley

Delaney's TV contract was originally tied to the number of TVs in a market. He never wanted UMd or Rutgers. Originally his plan was to get UVA and UNC. UVA had legislature problems with VT, but the larger issue was UNC was tied to Duke, the same way as the California schools are tied.

FWIW, no one follows or watches Maryland or Rutgers, but Delaney got the BigTen a ton of money by grabbing the DC & NYC television count.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

USC is tied to UCLA

Stanford is tied to Berzerkley

How so? Neither Stanford nor USC is funded by the California legislature.

Only UC Berkeley and UCLA are state funded.

 

[mb227]

I'll never be for adding cooger high. Having a largely commuter school with less than stellar academic reputation is certainly not something the B12 needs. I can't think of another P5 division that has a school like UH. UH belongs with Memphis, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, etc.

I'd be inclined to say that we really don't want a program whose coach was caught on a hot mic admitting he can't coach, but I don't believe the couch burner will be around long enough for THAT to be a factor in this discussion LOL!

SMU would make more sense, but I wouldn't let them back due to their cheating. They don't deserve to be in a P5 conference due to that.

At some point, their penance has to be deemed to have been paid. After all, it isn't like they shot someone and covered it up or got involved with kids and covered THAT up...or covered up the multiple rapes by the football team (same school that covered up a murder).

 

[LonghornMD]

What percentage of the population is from Arizona?

What percentage has any affiliation with either of those schools?

I ASU's business school is so great, why can't the graduates get jobs? Why are their MBAs so desperate that they'll take BBA salaries or less?

To support your argument, SMU has a higher academic ranking than eight of the schools in the Big XII.

What percentage of the population is from Arizona?

What percentage has any affiliation with either of those schools?

I ASU's business school is so great, why can't the graduates get jobs? Why are their MBAs so desperate that they'll take BBA salaries or less?

To support your argument, SMU has a higher academic ranking than eight of the schools in the Big XII.

To put it politely, you’re statements are completely inaccurate.

1. You’re referring to snowbirds and transplants, which Arizona does have a lot of (but so does Texas, and Austin in particular). But that doesn’t account for the thousands of alumni that each schools put out every year. ASU has a larger undergraduate enrollment then Texas and Ohio State.... surprising but true. There are PLENTY of interested eyeballs. And those alumni don’t necessarily even stay in AZ. So they turn on TV sets across the country. Added, AZ transplants and snowbirds watch and go to games more then you might think. And transplants send their kids to ASU and UofA.


2. “I ASU's business school is so great, why can't the graduates get jobs? Why are their MBAs so desperate that they'll take BBA salaries or less?” This is utter nonsense. The difficulty that MBA grads have experienced getting “good jobs” is relative to previous periods of hiring trends, and it’s a national phenomenon. It is not specific to ASU grads. I have good friends who graduated from Wharton, and they too had difficult times finding “good” jobs at various times. Here’s a fact: last December US News and World Reports ranked ASU’s MBA program #29 in the country...... that ranking includes the likes of Wharton, Columbia, Harvard, Texas, etc. That’s pretty good. And that ranking includes to a large degree post-graduate job placement. So your comments are misguided and flat out wrong.

Back to the point....... adding the AZ schools would get a good get for the Big 12. Good academics, good weather, and a new unique footprint with a large audience. And the Phoenix area is one of the fastest growing in population in the country.

 

[Chop]

If it was only about the size of the tv market, then Fordham would be the grand prize for any conference to add.

 

[SabreHorn]

The original BigTen TV contract negotiated by Delaney was priced per each TV in their market place. Rutgers has about as much following in NYC as Houston does in Dallas, but Delaney could count every TV in the NYC SMSA for the revenue. The same was true of UMd and DC. The contract has since changed.

"Figures don't lie, but liars do figure" - Stat 310

The number of televisions in a school's "trade territory" figures heavily into the negotiations of the conference contract. That said, network executives understand that the percentage of TVs tuned in to college games is significantly higher in the SEC than out in lala land.

 

[LonghornMD]

If it was only about the size of the tv market, then Fordham would be the grand prize for any conference to add.

you’re kidding yourself if you think that TV market isn’t a huge consideration, if not the biggest. But so is school enrollment size, size of alumni base, geographic footprint, travel considerations. There’s not a single Power 5 school with an undergrad enrollment under 12,000 (Vanderbilt is the smallest). Fordham is 9,000.

 

[Chop]

you’re kidding yourself if you think that TV market isn’t a huge consideration, if not the biggest. But so is school enrollment size, size of alumni base, geographic footprint, travel considerations. There’s not a single Power 5 school with an undergrad enrollment under 12,000 (Vanderbilt is the smallest). Fordham is 9,000.

Actually, we're playing one this Saturday. TCU has approximately 8,900 undergrads enrolled.

Stanford also says hello with approximately 7,000 undergrads enrolled.

Northwestern might chime in as well...

 

[SabreHorn]

Wake Forest with under 4,000 is still a member of the Atlantic Coast Conference, a P5 conference if only barely.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

That said, network executives understand that the percentage of TVs tuned in to college games is significantly higher in the SEC than out in lala land.

But Lala Land watchers have 3X the disposable income of of the SEC dirt wranglers.

 

[SabreHorn]

Both of them?

 

[LonghornMD]

Actually, we're playing one this Saturday. TCU has approximately 8,900 undergrads enrolled.

Stanford also says hello with approximately 7,000 undergrads enrolled.

Northwestern might chime in


You are correct. My bad. Those 3 do have undergrad enrollments below 12,000. But as I mentioned above, there are other considerations, with tv market playing a very big part. No one said it was the only consideration, like you were alluding to with your snarky “Fordham” comment.

TCU is in a city within the second largest metro area in the country by 2020 (DFW), with no other Big 12 team, so that probably played a part in those other considerations. Same could be said about Stanford (SF/Bay Area) and Northwestern (Chicago). As an aside, both Stanford and Northwestern have total enrollments which more then double their size (17,000 for Stanford, and 21,000 for NW).

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

Big difference getting into Stanford, Rice or even Texas vs. TCU or SMU or least of all UH.

 

[SabreHorn]

Getting in to UH is a lot easier since Harold Spradlin developed what is now GPS.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

Getting in to UH is a lot easier since Harold Spradlin developed what is now GPS.

Only if it has the safe roads option enabled.

 

[ViperHorn]

A big issue with any scheme that adds more teams and creates 2 divisions in the Big 12 is that everyone wants to play us (and to play in the State of Texas as many times as possible) every year for recruiting and exposure. I seem to recall that in the past, OSU, in particular, has made it a point that they must play every Texas team every year in any alignment, else no dice.

Playing around a bit with this:

Division A - UT, Tech, Baylor, TCU, OU, OSU

Division B - AZ, ASU, KU, KSU, ISU, WV (or someone else)

I'm not sure that would be good enough for AZ and ASU, but at least they could play 2 Texas teams each year if each team plays all Division rivals and 1/2 the non-Division rivals in the conference. That would guarantee one game on Texas soil every year.

Tell oSu to get over it or find a new conference.

 

[longhorn47]

A big issue with any scheme that adds more teams and creates 2 divisions in the Big 12 is that everyone wants to play us (and to play in the State of Texas as many times as possible) every year for recruiting and exposure. I seem to recall that in the past, OSU, in particular, has made it a point that they must play every Texas team every year in any alignment, else no dice.

Playing around a bit with this:

Division A - UT, Tech, Baylor, TCU, OU, OSU

Division B - AZ, ASU, KU, KSU, ISU, WV (or someone else)

I'm not sure that would be good enough for AZ and ASU, but at least they could play 2 Texas teams each year if each team plays all Division rivals and 1/2 the non-Division rivals in the conference. That would guarantee one game on Texas soil every year.

Why would you put Texas and OU in the same division? And Division B looks pretty weak.

 

[Creek]

Why we do we care about the academics from other schools in a football conference? It’s subjective anyways.
Further, why do we care about adding schools?
They just raid Texas hs talent.
As it is we are over glammed anyways and it hasn’t helped the football that much.
We actually have an easy path to the playoffs if we could beat OUgly.

 

[ViperHorn]

Of course we add USC if they want to come over, but why would they

How about adding USC and the Domers?

 

[dukesteer]

Rumor from another board. It seems there is discord in the Pac 12, so much so that it is believed that the Arizona schools are thinking about jumping to the Big 12. Does anyone think this would solidify the conference enough to keep it together? I'd personally like to go to 14 teams and add Utah and Colorado back. But pretty sure Colorado wouldn't come back based on principal. The dream is to convince UCLA and USC to join.

I don’t see how this enhances the Big 12. To me, we would just be adding numbers, not quality. That’s not to knock the AZ schools but neither bring cache, history or recruiting with them. Population you say? If that was a big factor then ASU and UA would recruit better. I travel to AZ all the time and boosters of both schools constantly complain that they simply cannot draw talent to AZ. Those players go to USC, Stanford or Oregon.

So I would pass. As others have stated, the jewels of the conference are USC and Stanford, and I agree that neither would come without their rivals, UCLA & Cal. Just can’t see it.

So unless there is a larger opportunity, I would pass.

 

[LonghornMD]

We have ISU, K-state, Kansas, TTech, Baylor and West Virginia in the Big 12. Occasionally these schools might have spurts of success on the football field. But so far as program history, cache, and recruiting, these aren’t exactly marquee football blue bloods. Yes, Kansas does bring basketball, and Baylor brings women’s basketball. And last year TTech had a break out year in men’s basketball. But it’s not as if there are blockbuster schools filling the Big 12..... see the above list.

Apologies before on the enrollment topic..... when looking up enrollment numbers, I mistakenly got total enrollment numbers (rather than undergrad) on some of the schools in question.

 

[Austin_Bill]

I ASU's business school is so great, why can't the graduates get jobs? Why are their MBAs so desperate that they'll take BBA salaries or less?

If I remember correctly, ASU graduate school combined with Thunderbird, and if you don't think Thunderbird is a good business school, well I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BurntOrangeLH]

As others have stated, the jewels of the conference are USC and Stanford, and I agree that neither would come without their rivals, UCLA & Cal. Just can’t see it.

It is called relevance. Right now the Pac-12 is a cesspool of revenue for these schools. They can increase their visibility in athletics tremendously by joining a super conference that is just not West Coast based exclusively.

Remember, there are probably less than 10 schools where football revenues actually support the football program and all other Athletics. Most Athletics run on donations from the school which means taxpayer money Public Schools.

 

[dukesteer]

I would just suggest that the rumors of the demise of the PAC are being greatly exaggerated...

Apparently the AZ schools are looking for relevance. I’m not sure how that would enhance the Big 12.

 

[BevoJoe]

You know SMU's been doing well lately...

[just kidding]

You saved yourself with the "just kidding"! LOL

 

[BevoJoe]

(SIAP) Interesting article related to the situation in the PAC 12:

The Big 12 Should Keep an Eye on Arizona, Arizona State for Expansion