Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
The budget deficit reached $1T and the national debt is increasing faster than prior administrations. Yes, that is objectively worse.
Impeachment
- Thread starter mchammer
- Start date
The budget deficit reached $1T and the national debt is increasing faster than prior administrations. Yes, that is objectively worse.
How can it be rising faster than prior admin's when Obama's first few years were way worse? Just stop please.
There was a lot of talk about Obama being the wind beneath Trump's economic metrics. But Obama basically bought his metrics in the doubling of the debt as we saw; QE, printing money etc. It kicked the can down the road. Not sure he had any real policy at all that mattered. Trump decided to give us some tax relief (and I see it on my paycheck every fifteen days). I consider money in my hands far better than in the hands of a wasteful bureaucracy and politicians who can direct it towards illegal aliens.
Short of an industrial revolution and serious belt-tightening I'm not sure either party will ever solve the deficit. You don't hear much talk about it from the Left; only reparations, student loan debt forgiveness, Medicare for all etc. Vote buying. From the right? Crickets or maybe grow our way out of it? I don't see it happening.
Short of an industrial revolution and serious belt-tightening I'm not sure either party will ever solve the deficit. You don't hear much talk about it from the Left; only reparations, student loan debt forgiveness, Medicare for all etc. Vote buying. From the right? Crickets or maybe grow our way out of it? I don't see it happening.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
All I hear is "waaaah". No one really wants to harm the environment. Everybody likes to go outside, to the pool, to the park, to the beach, to the mountains. Everybody. I have literally never met someone who said, "Eff nature, burn it all for my money." No one. This is a straw man that the Left uses constantly uses, and it is why the Right no longer listens to any of it.
Someone I read gave a sentiment I agree with, paragraphed below:
"If you go strictly by the Constitution then there are grounds to impeach and remove Trump. But that is true of Presidents for the last 100 years.
If you judge Trump by what has been allowed by Presidents for the last 100 years, then Trump hasn't done anything worthy of impeachment."
Calling a foreign country to investigate corruption that involves people in the US isn't a violation of the President's Constitutional powers. Or any more so than paying Iran money to get them to agree to an agreement on nuclear weapons. There has been quid pro quo between US Presidents and foreign governments all day every day for many many years.
LongestHorn
2,500+ Posts
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Welp...there hoes Garmel's defense. I35 will ignore the revised testimony and Horn6721 will move forward with the "what law did Trump break" defense.
Regardless, this puts the OMB under the spotlight.
Yeah, changing testimony and contradicting Zelensky and even his own testimony that was on that text makes me believe him. What underhanded tactic did Schiff do to get him to change his testimony?
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That's sorta the point of having an investigation.
There's no need for an investigation. This investigation was started by an underhanded tactic by Schiff, just like the Russian collusion stuff was started shadily. Let me ask you, counselor. How many investigations have you seen in your lifetime that were started by illegal/shady operations that ended up being true? These "investigations" are here to damage Trump and that's it.
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Our fiscal situation is a dumpster fire. In context, it is terrible - worse than under Obama.
Not even close.
Well, police conduct undercover and sting operations all the time. Those are shady in much the same way.
If the economy was in a big recession, I'd agree with you. With our economy as strong and our revenue as high as it is, there is absolutely no excuse. It isn't all Trump's fault, but he's giving no leadership on the issue whatsoever. It is a disgrace. If we can't get our deficit under control now, then when the hell will we ever have it under control?
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Nobody forced Trump to put the Ukraine Aid on hold while he and his underlings pushed Ukraine to open politically advantageous investigations. That's on them.
OMB, your subpoena will soon arrive. Of particular interest is why the aid was released a mere 3 days after the Whistleblower story was published.
That's different like what happened here. We have outright lying to get this **** started.
I35
5,000+ Posts
no I didn’t see the video I don’t think. Is it posting in this topic?
You act as if that's 100% fact and it doesn't seem to be. Zelensky says it didn't happen.
Undercover operations are based entirely on a lie. That's the whole point.
I can agree with Trump needing to do better with the debt/deficit. However, the financial situation is better than Obama's by far. Jobs and wage increases are much better. High deficits and dangerous amounts of quantitative easing was Obama's legacy. Recession can be a plausible excuse to a certain extent but his early deficits are inexcusable, especially that stupid stimulus bill.
WTF? What in the world are you trying to do by equating this with what Schiff was doing? There isn't any equivalency and you know it. Damn, dude.
I agree that the early deficits under Obama were inexcusable, even for a recession. However, as the economy recovered, the deficits came down significantly. Revenue started to come back, and we kept spending at least somewhat in check. Well, since Trump took office, revenue has continued to rise with the booming economy (which he does deserve significant credit for), but we're basically spending at obscene levels. Nobody gives a ****.
You asked if I've heard of investigations starting by shady means, and I answered your question. I think lying to people to induce them to do something criminal is shady, but I don't have a problem with it if it exposes criminality.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
It is fact. Zelensky said Trump didn't pressure him on the call. We now know months of pressure were being applied which culminated on withholding aid, unless you think nearly all of the witnesses so far are lying about the pressure.
Taylor, Morrison and Sondland have admitted to the aid being predicated on the investigations, albeit Morrison offered his opinion that it wasn't illegal. I suspect most Trump supporters will get to "he did it but its not impeachable".
Zelensky still says that he was not aware of Trump's decision to hold military aid. That makes it hard to say there's a quid pro quo. Let me ask you, you made excuses for the dem congressman and Biden who made obvious quid pro quos and you found those acceptable. Let's say Zelensky lied and there was a quid pro quo between him and Trump. What's the difference between what Trump and the dems did? You can't give me the excuse it's because it benefited Trump because Biden and the the dems benefited from the quid pro quos. Give me a legal reason why this is so different.
LongestHorn
2,500+ Posts
Or simply dismiss the investigation altogether.
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