Impeachment

[Seattle Husker]

You apparently missed the comment that the DOJ has already determined that nothing illegal occurred.

I didn't miss that. The reason? Nothing "of value" could be determined from THIS exchange. That was the same determination that Mueller made in Part 1 of his report. The Justice Department is at odds with the IG in this regard. This isn't the end too as the actual Whistleblower complaint still lingers.

Of course, this JD decision was made without the knowledge that Trump had personally put on hold the nearly $400M aid to Ukraine days before. They were simply looking for an explicit quid pro quo in the call. That didn't exist. This is potentially like trying to evaluate the situation looking through the keyhole.

One can certainly read into the conversation an implicit quid pro quo if one is predisposed to believing that.

 

[theiioftx]

CNN reporting this is the worst thing ever. Fox says its a nothing burger. Seems to reflect the membership of this forum.

 

[horninchicago]

CNN reporting this is the worst thing ever. Fox says its a nothing burger. Seems to reflect the membership of this forum.

Like I said, Ford vs Chevy.

 

[Horn6721]

First of all Biden is ONLY a political opponent the same way any Dem is. He is NOT the nominee. And lastly Trump would like Biden to be the nominee.

Second how is Trump asking a foreign country to look into events IN the foreign country jeopardizing our national security?

 

[Garmel]

First of all Biden is ONLY a political opponent the same way any Dem is. He is NOT the nominee. And lastly Trump would like Biden to be the nominee.

Second how is Trump asking a foreign country to look into events IN the foreign country jeopardizing our national security?

You have no business bringing common sense into this.

 

[mchammer]

The side that is violating norms is the Dems, not Trump. What foreign leader will talk candidly with a US president if they know the TDS crowd will demand a transcript?

 

[nashhorn]

The ‘national security’ issue was my question too, as in whaaaa?

 

[Garmel]

I didn't miss that. The reason? Nothing "of value" could be determined from THIS exchange. That was the same determination that Mueller made in Part 1 of his report. The Justice Department is at odds with the IG in this regard. This isn't the end too as the actual Whistleblower complaint still lingers.

Of course, this JD decision was made without the knowledge that Trump had personally put on hold the nearly $400M aid to Ukraine days before. They were simply looking for an explicit quid pro quo in the call. That didn't exist. This is potentially like trying to evaluate the situation looking through the keyhole.

One can certainly read into the conversation an implicit quid pro quo if one is predisposed to believing that.

A) After this post I never want to hear you criticize others for conspiracy theories again.

B) The whistle-blower's credibility is pretty much shot. He got the original story wrong. Also, the IG has already said that the whistle-blower has political bias against Trump which has pretty much established this as a nothingburger.

 

[Horn6721]

Maybe some Trump Hater can explain why this is ok?
"
Democrats wrote to the Ukrainian government in May 2018 urging it to continue investigations into President Donald Trump’s alleged collusion with Russia in the 2016 presidential campaign — collusion later found not to exist.
The demand, which came from U.S. Senators Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Dick Durbin (D-IL), and Patrick Leahy (D-VT), resurfaced Wednesday in an opinion piece written by conservative Marc Thiessen in the Washington Post.

It got almost no attention, but in May [2018], CNN reported that Sens. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) wrote a letter to Ukraine’s prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, expressing concern at the closing of four investigations they said were critical to the Mueller probe. In the letter, they implied that their support for U.S. assistance to Ukraine was at stake. Describing themselves as “strong advocates for a robust and close relationship with Ukraine,” the Democratic senators declared, “We have supported [the] capacity-building process and are disappointed that some in Kyiv appear to have cast aside these [democratic] principles to avoid the ire of President Trump,” before demanding Lutsenko “reverse course and halt any efforts to impede cooperation with this important investigation.”

The Democrats’ letter is available online here. In it, Menendez, Durbin, and Leahy demanded that the Ukrainian government answer their questions about the Mueller probe, and issued an implied threat: “This reported refusal to cooperate with the Mueller probe also sends a worrying signal — to the Ukrainian people as well as the international community — about your government’s commitment more broadly to support justice and the rule of law.”

 

[Seattle Husker]

The side that is violating norms is the Dems, not Trump. What foreign leader will talk candidly with a US president if they know the TDS crowd will demand a transcript?

That depends on whether a sitting POTUS is asking for "a favor" from a Foreign Government to investigate their political opponents. That's apparently all above board. That's the new norm here. The fear of talking frank is a ruse as leaders clearly know a cavalcade of people are listening, on both sides of the call.

 

[mchammer]

Maybe some Trump Hater can explain why this is ok?
"
Democrats wrote to the Ukrainian government in May 2018 urging it to continue investigations into President Donald Trump’s alleged collusion with Russia in the 2016 presidential campaign — collusion later found not to exist.
The demand, which came from U.S. Senators Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Dick Durbin (D-IL), and Patrick Leahy (D-VT), resurfaced Wednesday in an opinion piece written by conservative Marc Thiessen in the Washington Post.

It got almost no attention, but in May [2018], CNN reported that Sens. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) wrote a letter to Ukraine’s prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, expressing concern at the closing of four investigations they said were critical to the Mueller probe. In the letter, they implied that their support for U.S. assistance to Ukraine was at stake. Describing themselves as “strong advocates for a robust and close relationship with Ukraine,” the Democratic senators declared, “We have supported [the] capacity-building process and are disappointed that some in Kyiv appear to have cast aside these [democratic] principles to avoid the ire of President Trump,” before demanding Lutsenko “reverse course and halt any efforts to impede cooperation with this important investigation.”

The Democrats’ letter is available online here. In it, Menendez, Durbin, and Leahy demanded that the Ukrainian government answer their questions about the Mueller probe, and issued an implied threat: “This reported refusal to cooperate with the Mueller probe also sends a worrying signal — to the Ukrainian people as well as the international community — about your government’s commitment more broadly to support justice and the rule of law.”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mchammer]

That depends on whether a POTUS is asking for "a favor" from a Foreign Government to investigate known crooks. That's apparently all above board.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Seattle Husker]

A) After this post I never want to hear you criticize others for conspiracy theories again.

As much as you might like to mute me when I point out your craziness I choose not to grant you that privilege.

B) The whistle-blower's credibility is pretty much shot. He got the original story wrong. Also, the IG has already said that the whistle-blower has political bias against Trump which has pretty much established this as a nothingburger.

1. You don't know who the whistleblower is.
2. You haven't seen the complaint.
3. You've leaped the Grand Canyon to claim the anonymous person's credibility is shot.

Only 1 person's credibility is in peril with that statement and it isn't the Whistleblower. Rather than staring at your finger while pointing check out your thumb.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Maybe some Trump Hater can explain why this is ok?
"
Democrats wrote to the Ukrainian government in May 2018 urging it to continue investigations into President Donald Trump’s alleged collusion with Russia in the 2016 presidential campaign — collusion later found not to exist.
The demand, which came from U.S. Senators Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Dick Durbin (D-IL), and Patrick Leahy (D-VT), resurfaced Wednesday in an opinion piece written by conservative Marc Thiessen in the Washington Post.

It got almost no attention, but in May [2018], CNN reported that Sens. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) wrote a letter to Ukraine’s prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, expressing concern at the closing of four investigations they said were critical to the Mueller probe. In the letter, they implied that their support for U.S. assistance to Ukraine was at stake. Describing themselves as “strong advocates for a robust and close relationship with Ukraine,” the Democratic senators declared, “We have supported [the] capacity-building process and are disappointed that some in Kyiv appear to have cast aside these [democratic] principles to avoid the ire of President Trump,” before demanding Lutsenko “reverse course and halt any efforts to impede cooperation with this important investigation.”

The Democrats’ letter is available online here. In it, Menendez, Durbin, and Leahy demanded that the Ukrainian government answer their questions about the Mueller probe, and issued an implied threat: “This reported refusal to cooperate with the Mueller probe also sends a worrying signal — to the Ukrainian people as well as the international community — about your government’s commitment more broadly to support justice and the rule of law.”

Simple answer. That was smack dab in the middle of the Mueller investigation. Remember him? A special counsel appointed by the Justice Department? The letter says to work with Mueller, someone they had no management authority over whatsoever and were responding to a media article claiming their closing of 4 active cases impeded Mueller.

Now, if they said "we demand you open an investigation into Mitch McConnell..." then that leg you are standin on might me a bit longer than a stump.

 

[Horn6721]

we don't know the name but we do know this from the DOJ
"
The DOJ on Wednesday released their report on the anti-Trump “whistleblower.”
In the report the DOJ reveals that the “whistleblower” has animous against Trump and their entire complaint was based on hearsay. The “whistleblower” was also found to be supporter of Democrat candidate.
Here is the full report released today by the DOJ on the whistleblower.

 

[Horn6721]

So when the Dems threatened support if Ukraine did notgo forward with the complaint that isn't troubling to any Hater??
BTW Did Ukraine continue with the investigations ?

 

[Seattle Husker]

we don't know the name but we do know this from the DOJ
"
The DOJ on Wednesday released their report on the anti-Trump “whistleblower.”
In the report the DOJ reveals that the “whistleblower” has animous against Trump and their entire complaint was based on hearsay. The “whistleblower” was also found to be supporter of Democrat candidate.
Here is the full report released today by the DOJ on the whistleblower.

Lol! Of course they are releasing this prior to the actual complaint. They need to attempt to destroy the credibility so when they do release the complaint none of Trump's base will care. Of course they are forgetting that the Trump appointed IG also found the complaint to be "urgent" and "credible". It's likely only a matter of time before Atkinson (IG) gets the Mueller treatment and painted as Anti-Trump even after being a life-long Republican.

That's the way this story goes. Trump says and does crap that is unethical, if not illegal, while his minions follow along claiming up is down and water is dry.

Trump will not be impeached unless it occurs in his 2nd Term. The D's best chance is still to defeat him in an election. Does that mean an impeachment investigation shouldn't commence? No. Trump clearly has abused his power for the political process to start. Someone needs to check him until McConnell gets off his knees.

 

[nashhorn]

The fear of talking frank is a ruse as leaders clearly know a cavalcade of people are listening, on both sides of the call.

Hmmm, I think that says a lot about all this fiasco.

 

[Seattle Husker]

So when the Dems threatened support if Ukraine did notgo forward with the complaint that isn't troubling to any Hater??
BTW Did Ukraine continue with the investigations ?

Yes, that is concerning. I'd like to know more and I have no earthly idea what became of the 4 cases in question. It's not an apples to apples comparison as your are trying to make it out and one might suspect is actually an attempt to distract.

Since I recognized a questionable threat, is anyone going to admit that everything Trump said on that call aside from "congratulations" was unethical at best?

 

[Garmel]

Lol! Of course they are releasing this prior to the actual complaint. They need to attempt to destroy the credibility so when they do release the complaint none of Trump's base will care. Of course they are forgetting that the Trump appointed IG also found the complaint to be "urgent" and "credible". It's likely only a matter of time before Atkinson (IG) gets the Mueller treatment and painted as Anti-Trump even after being a life-long Republican.

That's the way this story goes. Trump says and does crap that is unethical, if not illegal, while his minions follow along claiming up is down and water is dry.

Trump will not be impeached unless it occurs in his 2nd Term. The D's best chance is still to defeat him in an election. Does that mean an impeachment investigation shouldn't commence? No. Trump clearly has abused his power for the political process to start. Someone needs to check him until McConnell gets off his knees.

LOL! The IG found it urgent and credible A FEW DAYS AGO. Now he's saying the guy is a partisan hack that can't be relied upon. What part of this do you not understand? What size do you want for that tin-foil hat?

 

[Seattle Husker]

Hmmm, I think that says a lot about all this fiasco.

I would have said that was a problem but after hearing what Trump says in the conversations this team of listeners is a safeguard. Remember when Trump exposed an Israeli intelligence asset to the Russian ambassador in the Roosevelt office? Only the leak of that info caused the Israelis to expeditiously extract the asset.

This POTUS has shown time and time again he can't be trusted with private conversations with other world leaders.

 

[Seattle Husker]

LOL! The IG found it urgent and credible A FEW DAYS AGO. Now he's saying the guy is a partisan hack that can't be relied upon. What part of this do you not understand? What size do you want for that tin-foil hat?

Actually, the IG found it "urgent and credible" in August and waited until September to bring it forward due to DNI inaction and legally mandated whistleblower laws that require informing Congress.

On the bias...Careful now. When do you think the IG proclaimed the Whistleblower's bias? Just this week or the moment it was forwarded to the DNI with his report? Logic can be your friend when enlisted correctly.

As an aside, the IG proclaimed the Whistleblower's bias. Your editorial bias is claiming the person is a "partisan hack" and a "guy". See the Grand Canyon yet?

(Editorial note: The Grand Canyon is best viewed in the afternoon after the morning fog dissipates.)

 

[Garmel]

Careful now. When do you think the proclaimed the Whistleblower's bias? Just this week or the moment it was forwarded to the DNI? Logic can be your friend when enlisted correctly.

As an aside, the IG proclaimed the Whistleblower's bias. Your editorial bias is claiming the person is a "partisan hack" and a "guy". See the Grand Canyon yet?

(Editorial note: The Grand Canyon is best viewed in the afternoon after the morning fog dissipates.)

LOL! Watching you squirm and grasp for straws is entertaining.

 

[Garmel]

I guess calling a guy a politically unreliable whistleblower would come first. Then the IG saying that this is urgent and credible second. I guess that makes sense in the Huskerverse.

 

[Seattle Husker]

LOL! Watching you squirm and grasp for straws is entertaining.

Is that what you call a takedown of your argument while not refuting my points? That's odd but makes a little sence in a worldview where up is down.

 

[Garmel]

Is that what you call a takedown of you argument while not refuting my points. That's odd but makes a little sence in a worldview where up is down.

You didn't take anything down. What you wrote is so out of touch with reality it's not even woth refuting.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I guess calling a guy a politically unreliable whistleblower would come first. Then the IG saying that this is urgent and credible second. I guess that makes sense in the Huskerverse.

It all happened simultaneously. The IG submitted the complaint and his report to the DNI. Unless we find out he amended his report it all happened in August. Just because the JD decided to release (leak?) elements of the report before the complaint is released doesn't mean the IG made the determination after sending over the complaint.

 

[Seattle Husker]

You didn't take anything down. What you wrote is so out of touch with reality it's not even woth refuting.

Do me "a favor". Can you send a postcard from bizarro world? I'd love to see what reality looks like from there. I imagine it something like Inception where the world is folding on top of itself but would love a perspective from someone experiencing it.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Returning the discussion to our regularly scheduled programming, which Trump supporter is willing to stand up and admit that a POTUS urging other governments to investigate political adversaries is frought with peril to our Democracy?

 

[Mr. Deez]

I didn't say it isn't a good idea. Just saying the average American decided long ago what side he stands on and nothing will change his mind. Just like the Mueller report and electoral college results haven't convinced one side that Trump should be allowed to do his job.

Ford/Chevy, Longhorns/Sooners/Aggies, Pro-gun/Anti-gun, Republican/Democrat, etc, etc.

Yes, but we're not average Americans. They aren't on Hornfans. They're listening to Taylor Swift.