IMO, the Fix is in

[mchammer]

So far not one Dem on here has defended SloJoe. Why not?

People voted for Joe because some folks couldn’t see through the fake news, like the poor covid response by CDC, etc. The folks around China Joe are so out of touch it is painful. They basically used TDS as an excuse to ignore the people. Just think if Trump acted more presidential, it would have mattered not how the press and the left would have acted. They still would have tried to destroy him and belittle his supporters. Biden is screwed because his folks spent 4 years trying to tear down Trump instead of trying to learn what the people want.

 

[PecosBill]

Never argue with ideologues.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Just think if Trump acted more presidential, it would have mattered not how the press and the left would have acted. They still would have tried to destroy him and belittle his supporters.

It wouldn't have mattered to the press, but it very likely would have mattered to significant parts of the public. If the press says you're an irresponsible jackass and you act like an irresponsible jackass, more people will believe the press than if you don't. Never understood why that's rocket science to Trump apologists. Seems pretty basic.

 

[mchammer]

It wouldn't have mattered to the press, but it very likely would have mattered to significant parts of the public. If the press says you're an irresponsible jackass and you act like an irresponsible jackass, more people will believe the press than if you don't. Never understood why that's rocket science to Trump apologists. Seems pretty basic.

Completely beside the point. I was speaking to the DC insiders who have been blinded by TDS to listen to what the public wants, and as a result will govern badly. I thought you were a lawyer who knows how to read. Read it again.

 

[mchammer]

It wouldn't have mattered to the press, but it very likely would have mattered to significant parts of the public. If the press says you're an irresponsible jackass and you act like an irresponsible jackass, more people will believe the press than if you don't. Never understood why that's rocket science to Trump apologists. Seems pretty basic.

My point is expressed here except I would have started with fake news outraging the populace instead of blaming Trump.

Biden's Culture War Aggression

 

[OUBubba]

Never argue with ideologues.

I like to say never get in a pissing match with a skunk.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Completely beside the point. I was speaking to the DC insiders who have been blinded by TDS to listen to what the public wants, and as a result will govern badly. I thought you were a lawyer who knows how to read. Read it again.

My point is expressed here except I would have started with fake news outraging the populace instead of blaming Trump.

Biden's Culture War Aggression

Beside the point except that there wouldn't be a President Biden without Trump's jackassery. Nevertheless, I don't think your broader point is right anyway. TDS isn't why they're not listening to the public. They're not listening to the public because they don't think they have to. They think Trump's toxicity will taint the GOP long enough to keep suburban voters in the Democratic fold, so they think they can do whatever they want. I don't think Biden is particularly supportive of it, but he's doing it to pay back his base and make them feel righteous. I think they exaggerate the assumption, but it's not deranged. We lost the presidency and both houses of Congress in 4 years. That hasn't happened in almost 90 years, and even then the Hoover Adminstration was in a much tougher position than Trump was in.

 

[mchammer]

Beside the point except that there wouldn't be a President Biden without Trump's jackassery. Nevertheless, I don't think your broader point is right anyway. TDS isn't why they're not listening to the public. They're not listening to the public because they don't think they have to. They think Trump's toxicity will taint the GOP long enough to keep suburban voters in the Democratic fold, so they think they can do whatever they want. I don't think Biden is particularly supportive of it, but he's doing it to pay back his base and make them feel righteous. I think they exaggerate the assumption, but it's not deranged. We lost the presidency and both houses of Congress in 4 years. That hasn't happened in almost 90 years, and even then the Hoover Adminstration was in a much tougher position than Trump was in.

Don’t care how they justify it to themselves - they think wrong. They will be guilty of what they accused of Trump. Going to backfire spectacularly. You still haven’t addressed my point: their insularity is going to haunt them. You’ve commented on everything except my point. You also seem to confound and/or conflate the last 2 months with the last 4 years. Such a load of bad reasoning. Come on, Man!

 

[Mr. Deez]

Don’t care how they justify it to themselves - they think wrong. They will be guilty of what they accused of Trump. Going to backfire spectacularly. You still haven’t addressed my point: their insularity is going to haunt them. You’ve commented on everything except my point.

You seem to be narrowing your point just be able to say I'm not addressing your point, but that's fine. Whether or not they end up being wrong depends on how our side reacts.

The Democrats have assembled a coalition of their base and secular (or at least less religiously observant than the Republican base) educated whites who aren't overly ideological. Of course, we gave up those voters to try to attract more rural voters and disillusioned, middle class minorities. (I don't think we had to make that choice, but that's beside the point.) We need to learn how to talk to those voters again. If we don't, they'll only follow the media's lead, and they obviously aren't going to help us out. They'll deemphasize everything nutty Biden has done, say he fixed the pandemic, rebuilt the economy, etc. Since we're not talking to those voters anymore, they'll have no one to challenge that narrative.

You also seem to confound and/or conflate the last 2 months with the last 4 years. Such a load of bad reasoning. Come on, Man!

No I'm not. The last two months have only been us at our very dumbest and most inept. However, we've been screwing up for years, and frankly the last two months have been a culmination of what has been going on the last four years at least in terms of rhetoric. Trump has talked about election rigging since 2016, and he and his surrogates have been feeding the QAnon crackpots and Proud Boys with rhetoric and winking and nodding at them for four years. He didn't tell them to storm the Capitol, but there's a reason why those people showed up at the rally in the first place.

 

[Garmel]

Beside the point except that there wouldn't be a President Biden without Trump's jackassery. Nevertheless, I don't think your broader point is right anyway. TDS isn't why they're not listening to the public. They're not listening to the public because they don't think they have to. They think Trump's toxicity will taint the GOP long enough to keep suburban voters in the Democratic fold, so they think they can do whatever they want. I don't think Biden is particularly supportive of it, but he's doing it to pay back his base and make them feel righteous. I think they exaggerate the assumption, but it's not deranged. We lost the presidency and both houses of Congress in 4 years. That hasn't happened in almost 90 years, and even then the Hoover Adminstration was in a much tougher position than Trump was in.

There is not a single Republican besides Reagan that would have won against what happened on November 3. Four states broke their own election laws in order to get Trump out of office and it worked. That's what you should be focused on but you can't. You still can't get over Trump. Here's a fact- None of your RINOS you like would have won either.

 

[Mr. Deez]

There is not a single Republican besides Reagan that would have won against what happened on November 3. Four states broke their own election laws in order to get Trump out of office and it worked. That's what you should be focused on but you can't. You still can't get over Trump. Here's a fact- None of your RINOS you like would have won either.

It's funny how I've become a RINO, because I don't like Trump. Not being a fan of the most fiscally liberal president in history makes one a RINO. Weird.

And plenty of other Republicans would have won. They wouldn't have spent the last four years and especially the last year tripping over their own dicks. Hell, Trump would have won had he not tripped on his own dick quite as much. It took a lot of ****-ups to lose.

 

[Garmel]

It's funny how I've become a RINO, because I don't like Trump. Not being a fan of the most fiscally liberal president in history makes one a RINO. Weird.

And plenty of other Republicans would have won. They wouldn't have spent the last four years and especially the last year tripping over their own dicks. Hell, Trump would have won had he not tripped on his own dick quite as much. It took a lot of ****-ups to lose.

Not a single one would have won. Look at the margins with Trump 2016 and Bush's elections. They wouldn't have won either with a slew of mail in ballots. Keep lying to yourself, bud and a need to blame Trump. The deck was stacked and he lost.

Your RINO tendencies go way beyond Trump. One poster I was talking to said that you're basically John McCain without the military record, which I agree with.

 

[OUBubba]

There is not a single Republican besides Reagan that would have won against what happened on November 3. Four states broke their own election laws in order to get Trump out of office and it worked. That's what you should be focused on but you can't. You still can't get over Trump. Here's a fact- None of your RINOS you like would have won either.

Lol. Trump would have won in a landslide if he’d have put his phone down in March and tried to be a Martin sheen kind of president or even a Harrison Ford.

also, most of the other Dems would have lost to trump. That’s why they tried so hard to take him out as soon as he announced. Ironically, if they would have impeached trump pence would have consolidated the GOP and possibly done a 10ish year term.

 

[Garmel]

Deez, if Bubba agrees with you that should tell you something. lol

 

[mchammer]

You seem to be narrowing your point just be able to say I'm not addressing your point, but that's fine. Whether or not they end up being wrong depends on how our side reacts.

The Democrats have assembled a coalition of their base and secular (or at least less religiously observant than the Republican base) educated whites who aren't overly ideological. Of course, we gave up those voters to try to attract more rural voters and disillusioned, middle class minorities. (I don't think we had to make that choice, but that's beside the point.) We need to learn how to talk to those voters again. If we don't, they'll only follow the media's lead, and they obviously aren't going to help us out. They'll deemphasize everything nutty Biden has done, say he fixed the pandemic, rebuilt the economy, etc. Since we're not talking to those voters anymore, they'll have no one to challenge that narrative.



No I'm not. The last two months have only been us at our very dumbest and most inept. However, we've been screwing up for years, and frankly the last two months have been a culmination of what has been going on the last four years at least in terms of rhetoric. Trump has talked about election rigging since 2016, and he and his surrogates have been feeding the QAnon crackpots and Proud Boys with rhetoric and winking and nodding at them for four years. He didn't tell them to storm the Capitol, but there's a reason why those people showed up at the rally in the first place.

Read the first and last 20% of the article.

 

[humahuma]

America has become a Banana Republic. So save me the court cases, and I will save you the flash drives, data dumps, and mail in ballots. I asked my friends who voted for Trump if they think Biden won a fair election. Answer was 100% NO, this crossed age, race, and gender. Then I asked a couple of people to ask their friends the same question. All came back with the 100 % NO they do not believe Biden won a fair election. This a small sample size, I am asking more people to reach out to their friends. What happens if a majority of a party doesn't believe the other side candidate won a fair election?

 

[iatrogenic]

America has become a Banana Republic. So save me the court cases, and I will save you the flash drives, data dumps, and mail in ballots. I asked my friends who voted for Trump if they think Biden won a fair election. Answer was 100% NO, this crossed age, race, and gender. Then I asked a couple of people to ask their friends the same question. All came back with the 100 % NO they do not believe Biden won a fair election. This a small sample size, I am asking more people to reach out to their friends. What happens if a majority of a party doesn't believe the other side candidate won a fair election?

The media and leftists berate you continuously until you conform!

 

[Horns11]

Read the first and last 20% of the article.

Barton Swaim made his mojo by rebranding Mark Sanford into a legitimate politician. Took all of Sanford's politics like rejecting federal bailout money (which SC then promptly overrode) and turned him into a folk hero despite his "Appalachian Trail" flaws. While I agree with some of the piece, this reads a lot like what he did to prove that Sanford wasn't the problem.

America has become a Banana Republic. So save me the court cases, and I will save you the flash drives, data dumps, and mail in ballots. I asked my friends who voted for Trump if they think Biden won a fair election. Answer was 100% NO, this crossed age, race, and gender. Then I asked a couple of people to ask their friends the same question. All came back with the 100 % NO they do not believe Biden won a fair election. This a small sample size, I am asking more people to reach out to their friends. What happens if a majority of a party doesn't believe the other side candidate won a fair election?

Then we enter into a post-truth world like in Interstellar where no one "believes" the moon landing really happened. You finding a lot of people who know people who think the election was unfair is the same reasoning that Kyrie Irving thinks the earth is flat.

 

[Mr. Deez]

America has become a Banana Republic. So save me the court cases, and I will save you the flash drives, data dumps, and mail in ballots. I asked my friends who voted for Trump if they think Biden won a fair election. Answer was 100% NO, this crossed age, race, and gender. Then I asked a couple of people to ask their friends the same question. All came back with the 100 % NO they do not believe Biden won a fair election.

Forget all the people from both parties who have actually seen the evidence. I'm going to believe my buddies who haven't seen anything but who have listened a lot of speculation and conjecture from political operatives on Newsmax and OAN.

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode in which Kramer is in court and ignores his lawyer's advice on trial strategy and listens to his golf caddy instead.

What happens if a majority of a party doesn't believe the other side candidate won a fair election?

In a sane country of sane people, we take the matter to court and let judges and juries look at evidence and render judgment on the matter. In a country of crackpots, we ignore the courts, listen to our buddies who have nothing but speculation, put our tin foil hats on, and wait for the space ships following the Hale-Bopp Comet to take us away.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Not a single one would have won. Look at the margins with Trump 2016 and Bush's elections. They wouldn't have won either with a slew of mail in ballots. Keep lying to yourself, bud and a need to blame Trump. The deck was stacked and he lost.

Two points on this. First, look at the margins of THIS election. They were extremely close. 57 of Biden's electoral votes were in states decided by fewer than 2 points. Joe Biden was a weak candidate and virtually didn't campaign. It took almost unanimous media support and relentless testicular hydration to carry him over the top. Even with main-in ballots, it was an very winnable race. That means every dick-tripping mattered. Bush and Romney would have tripped on their dicks a lot less. No, they wouldn't have been my preferred choice, and they had their liabilities, but in a crisis election, the greatly reduced dick-tripping would have served them well.

2016 was a different time. There was no global pandemic. The economy wasn't great, but it wasn't a trainwreck either. People were more willing to take their chances with a guy who flew by the seat of his pants. When the **** comes down, they prefer somebody who seems to have a plan and to know what the hell he's doing.

Your RINO tendencies go way beyond Trump. One poster I was talking to said that you're basically John McCain without the military record, which I agree with.

For starters, I'm flattered that you and your girlfriends like to talk **** about me behind my back. I must really be turning you all on.

Having said that, the McCain comparison is ironic. Prior to Trump, McCain is the only Republican nominee that didn't get my vote on election day, and of course Trump did get my vote this time. There are few politicians I'm less like than the angry Walmart greeter, McCain. Nevertheless, if not liking $600-$900 billion deficits when the economy is roaring and revenue is at record levels makes me a RINO, then I guess call me a RINO or a cuck or whatever new term you guys come up with. Back when I first became active in politics, we called being against that sort of thing a "fiscal conservative." I guess things have changed, and now if you don't basically adopt a Paul Krugman mentality about the deficit, you're a RINO.

(You'll notice that I pretty much give him a pass on the deficit for 2020. Deficit spending during a big crisis is to be expected, and that's not what's hurting us. It's the deficit spending we do when the economy is strong that is hurting us.)

 

[Garmel]

Two points on this. First, look at the margins of THIS election. They were extremely close. 57 of Biden's electoral votes were in states decided by fewer than 2 points. Joe Biden was a weak candidate and virtually didn't campaign. It took almost unanimous media support and relentless testicular hydration to carry him over the top. Even with main-in ballots, it was an very winnable race. That means every dick-tripping mattered. Bush and Romney would have tripped on their dicks a lot less. No, they wouldn't have been my preferred choice, and they had their liabilities, but in a crisis election, the greatly reduced dick-tripping would have served them well.

2016 was a different time. There was no global pandemic. The economy wasn't great, but it wasn't a trainwreck either. People were more willing to take their chances with a guy who flew by the seat of his pants. When the **** comes down, they prefer somebody who seems to have a plan and to know what the hell he's doing.



For starters, I'm flattered that you and your girlfriends like to talk **** about me behind my back. I must really be turning you all on.

Having said that, the McCain comparison is ironic. Prior to Trump, McCain is the only Republican nominee that didn't get my vote on election day, and of course Trump did get my vote this time. There are few politicians I'm less like than the angry Walmart greeter, McCain. Nevertheless, if not liking $600-$900 billion deficits when the economy is roaring and revenue is at record levels makes me a RINO, then I guess call me a RINO or a cuck or whatever new term you guys come up with. Back when I first became active in politics, we called being against that sort of thing a "fiscal conservative." I guess things have changed, and now if you don't basically adopt a Paul Krugman mentality about the deficit, you're a RINO.

(You'll notice that I pretty much give him a pass on the deficit for 2020. Deficit spending during a big crisis is to be expected, and that's not what's hurting us. It's the deficit spending we do when the economy is strong that is hurting us.)

Wow! I must be getting under your skin, RINO Boy. LOL! Yeah, check out the margins of this election. 10K in Arizona, 12K in Georgia, and 20K in Wisconsin. Without the mail in ballots Trump turns these states and wins this election. That's a fact. Yeah, his personality probably causes some people not to vote for him but I don't think it's as much as you think. You're also forgetting that Romney and Bush probably would not have survived the Covid and recession issues as well as Trump did either, which would have doomed them both. Let's face it, both would have taken Fauci's advice and not have had a travel ban to China. Fauci admitted his mistake later and praised Trump for this. Covid would have been worse in this country without Trump's decision. Neither would have had produced a strong enough economy either as Trump did. Both would have cut taxes but bringing back good jobs to America was Trump's doing. Trump's strong economy helped him gather votes. As I said Bush and Romney could not survived these two issues as well as Trump did.

 

[Monahorns]

Forget all the people from both parties who have actually seen the evidence. I'm going to believe my buddies who haven't seen anything but who have listened a lot of speculation and conjecture from political operatives on Newsmax and OAN.

Deez. I have provided more than enough evidence on this board to show that something happened. It doesn't answer the why and the who. But the what is well documented.

But it seems like you have ignored evidence too. It is simply uncool I guess to ask serious questions about fraud of election legitimacy. The rich and powerful and intelligent look down on those who are even open to such a think like that being reality.

I for one think National Review Republicans have their heads in the sand on this strictly because of the optics. It makes you look like a Trump guy and like you agree with the "insurrectionists". I still like National Review some, but I have lost respect for it over the last year or so.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Deez. I have provided more than enough evidence on this board to show that something happened. It doesn't answer the why and the who. But the what is well documented.

But it seems like you have ignored evidence too. It is simply uncool I guess to ask serious questions about fraud of election legitimacy. The rich and powerful and intelligent look down on those who are even open to such a think like that being reality.

I for one think National Review Republicans have their heads in the sand on this strictly because of the optics. It makes you look like a Trump guy and like you agree with the "insurrectionists". I still like National Review some, but I have lost respect for it over the last year or so.

I don't care what's cool or if I look like a Trump guy. Trust me, I'd be a much more popular guy around here if I catered more to Trumpism.

However, I do care what gets offered in court and what doesn't. If the evidence is solid, then bring suit with proper plaintiffs and in proper courts. Nobody's keeping that from happening, and if it turns out that there was some big fraud committed, I will recognize it and admit that I assumed incorrectly. But until that happens, the posturing is pretty counterproductive.

 

[Garmel]

Deez. I have provided more than enough evidence on this board to show that something happened. It doesn't answer the why and the who. But the what is well documented.

But it seems like you have ignored evidence too. It is simply uncool I guess to ask serious questions about fraud of election legitimacy. The rich and powerful and intelligent look down on those who are even open to such a think like that being reality.

I for one think National Review Republicans have their heads in the sand on this strictly because of the optics. It makes you look like a Trump guy and like you agree with the "insurrectionists". I still like National Review some, but I have lost respect for it over the last year or so.

I'm a strong believer there was oodles of fraud because the math in this election is ****** up beyond belief. However, having Powell, Wood and Q getting involved didn't exactly help our side.

 

[Monahorns]

I don't care what's cool or if I look like a Trump guy. Trust me, I'd be a much more popular guy around here if I catered more to Trumpism.

In general it is cool to hate Trump, even in Conservative Inc. audiences.

However, I do care what gets offered in court and what doesn't. If the evidence is solid, then bring suit with proper plaintiffs and in proper courts. Nobody's keeping that from happening, and if it turns out that there was some big fraud committed, I will recognize it and admit that I assumed incorrectly. But until that happens, the posturing is pretty counterproductive.

If only the only information pointing to fraud was offered to courts. What about all the studies showing something fishy?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Wow! I must be getting under your skin, RINO Boy. LOL!

LOL. You don't get under my skin, and I know deep down, you're a decent guy and well-meaning even when you disagree with me and even when you talk ****, which I don't mind. It's part of the experience here.

Yeah, check out the margins of this election. 10K in Arizona, 12K in Georgia, and 20K in Wisconsin. Without the mail in ballots Trump turns these states and wins this election.

I don't doubt this. I'm sure the mail-in ballots made a difference.

Yeah, his personality probably causes some people not to vote for him but I don't think it's as much as you think.

Well, it shows up in polls (which I know we often discount), but it also shows up in election results. See 2018. Furthermore, it wildly boosts Democratic turnout. They are far more motivated to vote with Trump in the White House than not.

You're also forgetting that Romney and Bush probably would not have survived the Covid and recession issues as well as Trump did either, which would have doomed them both. Let's face it, both would have taken Fauci's advice and not have had a travel ban to China. Fauci admitted his mistake later and praised Trump for this. Covid would have been worse in this country without Trump's decision.

As I've said before, Trump did not objectively handle Covid poorly. There are some valid points we can Monday-morning quarterback on him about, but at the relevant time, nobody had a better plan. As I've pointed out several times, at the critical time of the travel restriction, Biden and the Democrats were for letting thousands of Chinese enter the United States and cough on people and telling people not to wear masks. They never had credibility on the issue. I would agree that Bush and Romney would not have handled it better (certainly not significantly), and Biden sure as hell wouldn't have.

The biggest difference would have been on messaging. They wouldn't have publicly fought with their own people (including but not limited to Fauci), wouldn't have made mask-wearing a dick-measuring contest, etc. That crap looked absolutely terrible and made the Administration look far worse than it actually was. Looking organized matters.

You bring up the fact that Fauci got some things wrong and the fact that Bush and Romney would have been more deferential to him. (I think they would have been more deferential. I don't think they would have done everything he said, but they would have worked out the difference behind closed doors, not in press conferences and in public.) He did get some things wrong, as I've pointed out before in response to those who said we should have just been "following the science." However, think about the political implications. If you follow the expert's advice and it goes badly, who's fault is it? The expert's for advising you poorly. If you publicly say the expert is full of **** and he even ends up being arguably kinda right, who looks bad? You.

Neither would have had produced a strong enough economy either as Trump did. Both would have cut taxes but bringing back good jobs to America was Trump's doing. Trump's strong economy helped him gather votes.

They would have deregulated, cut taxes, and supported the energy sector. The economy would have been in very good shape with them. Virtually every good thing Trump did economically, they also would have done.

 

[Garmel]

I could point out things that I don't agree with but that will get us nowhere. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[nashhorn]

If you follow the expert's advice and it goes badly, who's fault is it?

Unless you’re Trump. Dems would find fault, just by saying he should have followed his gut or something. I guarantee it would be blamed on him.

 

[OUBubba]

Unless you’re Trump. Dems would find fault, just by saying he should have followed his gut or something. I guarantee it would be blamed on him.

Ask middle of the road baseball/football managers. Fall back on the advice of scouts and consultants. Blaze your own trail and it’s the penthouse or the outhouse. Trump needed someone to read the field and he need to run the ball, stretch the clock, get a few first downs and remove the Dems ability to catch him. He played the final five minutes like he was mike leach with a 9 point lead.

 

[iatrogenic]

Ask middle of the road baseball/football managers. Fall back on the advice of scouts and consultants. Blaze your own trail and it’s the penthouse or the outhouse. Trump needed someone to read the field and he need to run the ball, stretch the clock, get a few first downs and remove the Dems ability to catch him. He played the final five minutes like he was mike leach with a 9 point lead.

I actually agree with you! I feel so dirty.....