Hypothetical wife/stepdaughter situation
- Thread starter ptownhorn
- Start date
Back to Texas
250+ Posts
Weird hypothetical, but I'll play. You shouldn't get married to a woman with a child if you look at the world this way. I don't agree with putting conditions on a potential wife about something she cannot totally control and I thinks its unfortunate you would contemplate asking her to choose you versus doing the right thing for her kid and grandkid. Like it or not, having kids (which you would be signing up for marrying a person with kids) entails responsibility. Telling a 16 year old to get out of the house is totally irresponsible.
When our kids make mistakes, we have a certain level of responsibility for them that is more so when they are under 18. There are certainly mistakes that they should fully own, but need direction from their parents on how to live up their responsibility for their mistakes. If you don't want kids nor responsibility for their mistakes even to the extent of giving them direction and support, then don't have kids. If you don't want kids, don't marry someone with kids.
When our kids make mistakes, we have a certain level of responsibility for them that is more so when they are under 18. There are certainly mistakes that they should fully own, but need direction from their parents on how to live up their responsibility for their mistakes. If you don't want kids nor responsibility for their mistakes even to the extent of giving them direction and support, then don't have kids. If you don't want kids, don't marry someone with kids.
Hayden, any property brought into the marriage by one spouse remains that spouse's property upon divorce. Proving it might be a bit difficult, but in the case of a house, that doesn't seem all that big of a hurdle. I know you work(ed) in "the biz", but it seems you have misinterpreted something along the way. Maybe I misunderstood you.
Certainly a prenup would make things virtually crystal clear.
Certainly a prenup would make things virtually crystal clear.
PhantomHorn
1,000+ Posts
The fact that you even brought up this subject tells me you shouldn't go through with it because your heart is not truly in it. The girl is part of your family, not luggage.
What Bob said re: marital property rights. That was my area of practice during my 18 years as an attorney. Bob is correct that what was separate property before marriage remains separate after marriage. There is the ability to convert separate property into community, but only if it is done in writing.
Now if you were to die, and the property is your homestead, she has an absolute right to remain in the home as long as she is living (as long as she is paying the mortgage (if any) and the taxes. And that's even if you had a Will that left it to someone other than her. The only way to change that is to have a pre-nup where she waives her homestead right on your death.
And on the other issue, when you marry someone, you take everything that can possibly come along with it. If you're not willing to accept all the possibilities going in, then you're making a bad choice here.
Now if you were to die, and the property is your homestead, she has an absolute right to remain in the home as long as she is living (as long as she is paying the mortgage (if any) and the taxes. And that's even if you had a Will that left it to someone other than her. The only way to change that is to have a pre-nup where she waives her homestead right on your death.
And on the other issue, when you marry someone, you take everything that can possibly come along with it. If you're not willing to accept all the possibilities going in, then you're making a bad choice here.
beam,coke,&horns
100+ Posts
I feel for you, man. But a real man wouldn't shoplift the pootie from a single mom.
Wulaw Horn
1,000+ Posts
Dude- I don't think you are an ******* for thinking about this and it seems important to you so you should probably pass.
You are right in the heirarchy of how things/attentions should work, God, Spouse, Kids, Family, others in that order.
Problem is when you go with an instant family it doesn't work like that, and kids get moved above spouse.
And that's fair, b/c the kid didn't ask for mommy or daddy to be remarried, the kid is the #1 priority and that's just how it should work.
You seem really worried about not being the center of her life and the thing is that you will not be the center of her life at least until her daughter is gone. And, as you are thinking with this hypo, there is no guarantee that her daughter will be gone.
Hayden, as both an attorney and an escrow officer I can say you are right and wrong. House is always going to be his separate property from a legal standpoint but he is going to have a really hard time ever selling or remortgaging the house without his wife's signature on it or an affidavit disclaiming all ownership.
So, although the house never becomes Community Property (absent a written agreement that it should) the new wife can certainly create obstacles for his free enjoyment of said casa.
You are right in the heirarchy of how things/attentions should work, God, Spouse, Kids, Family, others in that order.
Problem is when you go with an instant family it doesn't work like that, and kids get moved above spouse.
And that's fair, b/c the kid didn't ask for mommy or daddy to be remarried, the kid is the #1 priority and that's just how it should work.
You seem really worried about not being the center of her life and the thing is that you will not be the center of her life at least until her daughter is gone. And, as you are thinking with this hypo, there is no guarantee that her daughter will be gone.
Hayden, as both an attorney and an escrow officer I can say you are right and wrong. House is always going to be his separate property from a legal standpoint but he is going to have a really hard time ever selling or remortgaging the house without his wife's signature on it or an affidavit disclaiming all ownership.
So, although the house never becomes Community Property (absent a written agreement that it should) the new wife can certainly create obstacles for his free enjoyment of said casa.
You guys must be a bunch of priests, nuns, or the most moral people on this board.
I am hypotheticaly signing up for a wife and a stepdaughter who is twelve. I am signing up for the responsibility of the 12 yr old until she moves on to college or out of the house by 18-21 yrs old. I can and would handle that.... easily (she wipes her own ***)
This is alot different than signing up for another 18-21 yrs for another kid. A baby. changing diapers, babysitting, feeding, being kept up at night while 16 yr old daughter goes to highschool.
And I think some of you are taking it wrong. It's not like her bags would be on the front portch the minute the kid is born. I would try to get her set up on her own as soon as possible. Get her going in an apartment. Get the father of her kid pitching in money. Get her real father pitching in money. Then her mom and I would pitch in. I just don't want to totaly take over the parenting for the child.
I am hypotheticaly signing up for a wife and a stepdaughter who is twelve. I am signing up for the responsibility of the 12 yr old until she moves on to college or out of the house by 18-21 yrs old. I can and would handle that.... easily (she wipes her own ***)
This is alot different than signing up for another 18-21 yrs for another kid. A baby. changing diapers, babysitting, feeding, being kept up at night while 16 yr old daughter goes to highschool.
And I think some of you are taking it wrong. It's not like her bags would be on the front portch the minute the kid is born. I would try to get her set up on her own as soon as possible. Get her going in an apartment. Get the father of her kid pitching in money. Get her real father pitching in money. Then her mom and I would pitch in. I just don't want to totaly take over the parenting for the child.
Texas_Rocks
500+ Posts
accuratehorn
10,000+ Posts
Here's what I think you should do, seriously.
You are signing on to be a stepfather, which is not an easy role. Discuss this with your fiance/intended, in a non-threatening way. Tell her you know it will put you in a difficult role, but you are willing to accept that responsibility. However, you want to clarify your role, your rule-making authority in your (and her) house, to avoid big conflicts down the road.
It is bad when the child pits one parent against the other, and really bad when one parent is a step-parent who may feel they shouldn't get involved in the rule making or rule inforcement.
Don't start out saying "what if your daughter gets pregnant?" Bring up the whole range of issues of being a responsible step-parent, and will you have equal authority to make sensible rules that any parent would want to maintain good relationships with both child and spouse in the household.
You should both agree on how things will be in general.
But if the worst occurs down the line, hopefully you both would agree what the best course of action would be.
You could bring up issues like birth control in the discussion, to see if the two of you radically disagree on serious matters of that sort or not, but don't just blurt out "I'm gonna throw Suzy out in the street if she gets pregnant."
Not an easy discussion to have, but that's what I think should happen.
Some churches have pre-marital counseling classes, which would be the ideal place to bring up issues like these.
You are signing on to be a stepfather, which is not an easy role. Discuss this with your fiance/intended, in a non-threatening way. Tell her you know it will put you in a difficult role, but you are willing to accept that responsibility. However, you want to clarify your role, your rule-making authority in your (and her) house, to avoid big conflicts down the road.
It is bad when the child pits one parent against the other, and really bad when one parent is a step-parent who may feel they shouldn't get involved in the rule making or rule inforcement.
Don't start out saying "what if your daughter gets pregnant?" Bring up the whole range of issues of being a responsible step-parent, and will you have equal authority to make sensible rules that any parent would want to maintain good relationships with both child and spouse in the household.
You should both agree on how things will be in general.
But if the worst occurs down the line, hopefully you both would agree what the best course of action would be.
You could bring up issues like birth control in the discussion, to see if the two of you radically disagree on serious matters of that sort or not, but don't just blurt out "I'm gonna throw Suzy out in the street if she gets pregnant."
Not an easy discussion to have, but that's what I think should happen.
Some churches have pre-marital counseling classes, which would be the ideal place to bring up issues like these.
Nuclear Bear
1,000+ Posts
1. the job of a parent doesn't end when the child leaves the house after HS/college
2. if you marry someone with a kid (and want it to last) you must accept the job of a parent to their kids
if you think/want your job as a parent for the 12yo to be over when she is 18-21, you're not accepting the full responsibility of being that child's parent.
if you would kick your own daughter out of the house if she had a kid at 18, that's one thing...but it's impossible to prove that you would do that and thus you would look like a complete ******* (and rightfully so, IMO).
if you're not willing to sign up for being the 12yo's parent for LIFE, then just don't sign up.
2. if you marry someone with a kid (and want it to last) you must accept the job of a parent to their kids
if you think/want your job as a parent for the 12yo to be over when she is 18-21, you're not accepting the full responsibility of being that child's parent.
if you would kick your own daughter out of the house if she had a kid at 18, that's one thing...but it's impossible to prove that you would do that and thus you would look like a complete ******* (and rightfully so, IMO).
if you're not willing to sign up for being the 12yo's parent for LIFE, then just don't sign up.
longhornbell
100+ Posts
Ptownhorn
It seems that between the lines of your comments, you are mostly afraid of losing the attention, love and affection from your wife due to the hypothetical events you have mentioned. Truthfully, there will be times when you will not be her priority.
I brought a 5 year old daughter into my present marriage. I breathed a sigh of relief when she graduated from school and entered college. A few days before her 20th B-Day she dropped the news. Pregnant by her ex boyfriend. He wanted to marry her (do the right thing so to speak), but they had already decided a future together was not to be. My spouse who had long ago decided he did not want children of his own, agreed we would help her in whatever she decided. Her and her son lived with us for 5 years while she finished her education. The bond between him and his grandfather is incredible. I am not saying it was easy but he is 10 now and my husbands fishing, hunting and Longhorn sports buddy. We can't imagine our lives without him. It wasn't always easy, but life never is. We all take a leap of faith when we enter relationships. The outcome is up to you.
Good Luck
It seems that between the lines of your comments, you are mostly afraid of losing the attention, love and affection from your wife due to the hypothetical events you have mentioned. Truthfully, there will be times when you will not be her priority.
I brought a 5 year old daughter into my present marriage. I breathed a sigh of relief when she graduated from school and entered college. A few days before her 20th B-Day she dropped the news. Pregnant by her ex boyfriend. He wanted to marry her (do the right thing so to speak), but they had already decided a future together was not to be. My spouse who had long ago decided he did not want children of his own, agreed we would help her in whatever she decided. Her and her son lived with us for 5 years while she finished her education. The bond between him and his grandfather is incredible. I am not saying it was easy but he is 10 now and my husbands fishing, hunting and Longhorn sports buddy. We can't imagine our lives without him. It wasn't always easy, but life never is. We all take a leap of faith when we enter relationships. The outcome is up to you.
Good Luck
I love how ptownhorn asks a question; doesn't get the response he's hoping for; embraces the role of the *******; calls out those who disagree with him as "priests" and "nuns"; then changes the entire question that started the discussion, as not to appear as to be an *******.
How did we get from:
How did we get from:
I think, perhaps incorrectly, that I am somewhat of an expert on this topic. This may surprise you as I am 56, have never been married, had kids or had any professional or educational contact with the subject. I have, however, been to many strip clubs, and have collected massive amounts of anecdotal unverified data on the lives of strippers. If your step-daughter gets pregnant she has stripper written all over her.
Essentially 100% of strippers are girls with a baby, a drug problem or both, and no effective parental support system. Essentially no eighteen year old boy is capable of supporting a teenage mom and child. Hell they can't really support themselves. Stripping is the only legal way for a teenage single mom to exist and support her child. If you don't support her, you better hope she becomes a stripper. The alternatives are worse. It's a huge tragedy our society ignores.
Essentially 100% of strippers are girls with a baby, a drug problem or both, and no effective parental support system. Essentially no eighteen year old boy is capable of supporting a teenage mom and child. Hell they can't really support themselves. Stripping is the only legal way for a teenage single mom to exist and support her child. If you don't support her, you better hope she becomes a stripper. The alternatives are worse. It's a huge tragedy our society ignores.
Bob in Houston
2,500+ Posts
ptown, if you marry this woman, you have to be prepared to help her daughter through the situation you have described. Otherwise, you should not marry this woman, because she is not going to abandon her daughter for your sake.
I know a retired couple who is raising their grandchild, because their daughter just can't do it. I'm sure they would rather not be doing it, but they won't let the little boy suffer for his mother's problems.
I know a retired couple who is raising their grandchild, because their daughter just can't do it. I'm sure they would rather not be doing it, but they won't let the little boy suffer for his mother's problems.
accuratehorn
10,000+ Posts
Well, there's your answer. You just meet with your intended and ask if it is OK when the daughter gets pregnant, if she can support herself by being a stripper.
All your problems are solved.
All your problems are solved.
Summerof79
2,500+ Posts
monumental... that is the most accurate one word response to the question posed.
You gotta love her daughter as you would your own to have a snowball's chance in hell of making the marriage a success.
As as real side note- I wouldn't want to have to account for even making a post like this at the pearly gates....
You gotta love her daughter as you would your own to have a snowball's chance in hell of making the marriage a success.
As as real side note- I wouldn't want to have to account for even making a post like this at the pearly gates....
For better or worse, etc etc. you don't know what marriage is, marriage is taking all the people's **** and dealing with it. etc, etc. right.? that's what im getting here. no matter what, until the end...... You're married. You deal with whatever no matter what
well What would be a deal breaker for her?
1. I bang some other chick / divorce
2. I start beating her / divorce
3. I beat her kid / divorce
4. I develop drug/alcohol/gambling/ porn/ strip club addiction/ divorce
5. I become a dead beat who wont get a job / divorce
There are things she would never put up from me that would ultimately lead to our separation and there are things I won't put up coming from her. One is raising a step grand child as my own.
We disagree. No more need to keep this thread going.
The best thing that could happen is to get the wife knocked up early so the teenager could see first hand how difficult little baby bro or sis can be
well What would be a deal breaker for her?
1. I bang some other chick / divorce
2. I start beating her / divorce
3. I beat her kid / divorce
4. I develop drug/alcohol/gambling/ porn/ strip club addiction/ divorce
5. I become a dead beat who wont get a job / divorce
There are things she would never put up from me that would ultimately lead to our separation and there are things I won't put up coming from her. One is raising a step grand child as my own.
We disagree. No more need to keep this thread going.
The best thing that could happen is to get the wife knocked up early so the teenager could see first hand how difficult little baby bro or sis can be
THEU
2,500+ Posts
ptown,
First off I understand any trepidations you might have in rearing a step child or a child of any sort. Having an 'instant' child who is 12 is even harder.
I commend you on trying to think beyond the moment about what the future might hold.
I also believe that I haven't seen a single person on here who hasn't had a response that is based on trying to give loving and sage advice for you, for your possible wife to be, and for your possible step daughter to be. People are ALWAYS very defensive for/about kids and it is refreshing to see the care that people have on this thread.
Now that I have those very basic reflections on this thread covered, I would like to see if I could add a different prespective on this.
Ptown, there are too many 'what if's' in life to really answer a hypothetical like the one you propose. One of the greatest illegitimacies about fear that we often hold onto, is to think that multiple things would happen. Now, I know you are preparing for a 'worst case scenario', but the way you put the hypothetical, you almost make it sound like it would be totally up to you to provide for a child, if your step daughter got pregnant as a teen, and if she keeps the baby, and if she wouldn't rear the baby herself, and if her real dad isn't going to help out, and if the baby's father won't help out. I know you did mention that you would of course try to set her up and get them to help etc., but I just get the sense (and we all do this) that you are tending to think about this ONLY in terms of how it would effect you. Her life is bigger than that in the grand scheme of things.
Also, you have to remember how unlikely this scenario is. There are many other 'issues' that statistically you are FAR more sure to face with rearing a teenage daughter than pregnancy. How will you deal with her lying to you? What about if she was arrested for driving under the influence? What if she snuck out to get drunk, meet a boy etc?
There are literally 1,000s of day by day issues that you will face as a parent/step parent. I think the greater question is what will be your role in these 1,000s of day by day child rearing events?
I believe this is FAR more important for you and your girlfriend to talk about. What is your role in her daughter's life now? What would it be if you were to marry?
I also think that if you shared with your girlfriend that you have a great fear of having to rear a child if she were to get pregnant, it would be good. I would suggest you say, "I know this sounds crazy, and the chances are it would never happen, but for some reason I am having real issues with X."
You might find that her mom thinks, "Hell no. I have no intentions of rearing a grandchild, and while I would support my daughter, I would support adoption." She might think she would rear the grandchild at any cost. I don't know her answer, but the key is that you and she need to communicate about it.
Now, one last thing, I suggest you seek advice from a pastor or counselor that you and she can trust. While I mentioned that well intentioned responses here on Quacks, they should not be definitive in your life. I am sure you are just bouncing ideas around on here, but never underestimate the power of talking with a professional for real.
God's blessings on your relationship with both this woman and her daughter. And while I am not a priest I am a pastor, so I hope I don't sound too 'moralistic' for you.
First off I understand any trepidations you might have in rearing a step child or a child of any sort. Having an 'instant' child who is 12 is even harder.
I commend you on trying to think beyond the moment about what the future might hold.
I also believe that I haven't seen a single person on here who hasn't had a response that is based on trying to give loving and sage advice for you, for your possible wife to be, and for your possible step daughter to be. People are ALWAYS very defensive for/about kids and it is refreshing to see the care that people have on this thread.
Now that I have those very basic reflections on this thread covered, I would like to see if I could add a different prespective on this.
Ptown, there are too many 'what if's' in life to really answer a hypothetical like the one you propose. One of the greatest illegitimacies about fear that we often hold onto, is to think that multiple things would happen. Now, I know you are preparing for a 'worst case scenario', but the way you put the hypothetical, you almost make it sound like it would be totally up to you to provide for a child, if your step daughter got pregnant as a teen, and if she keeps the baby, and if she wouldn't rear the baby herself, and if her real dad isn't going to help out, and if the baby's father won't help out. I know you did mention that you would of course try to set her up and get them to help etc., but I just get the sense (and we all do this) that you are tending to think about this ONLY in terms of how it would effect you. Her life is bigger than that in the grand scheme of things.
Also, you have to remember how unlikely this scenario is. There are many other 'issues' that statistically you are FAR more sure to face with rearing a teenage daughter than pregnancy. How will you deal with her lying to you? What about if she was arrested for driving under the influence? What if she snuck out to get drunk, meet a boy etc?
There are literally 1,000s of day by day issues that you will face as a parent/step parent. I think the greater question is what will be your role in these 1,000s of day by day child rearing events?
I believe this is FAR more important for you and your girlfriend to talk about. What is your role in her daughter's life now? What would it be if you were to marry?
I also think that if you shared with your girlfriend that you have a great fear of having to rear a child if she were to get pregnant, it would be good. I would suggest you say, "I know this sounds crazy, and the chances are it would never happen, but for some reason I am having real issues with X."
You might find that her mom thinks, "Hell no. I have no intentions of rearing a grandchild, and while I would support my daughter, I would support adoption." She might think she would rear the grandchild at any cost. I don't know her answer, but the key is that you and she need to communicate about it.
Now, one last thing, I suggest you seek advice from a pastor or counselor that you and she can trust. While I mentioned that well intentioned responses here on Quacks, they should not be definitive in your life. I am sure you are just bouncing ideas around on here, but never underestimate the power of talking with a professional for real.
God's blessings on your relationship with both this woman and her daughter. And while I am not a priest I am a pastor, so I hope I don't sound too 'moralistic' for you.
Hayden_Horn
1,000+ Posts
yeah, i think i missed something. i imagine it had to do with the person still making payments - not owned outright. my bad on the community property thing.
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