Here we go again . . .

Mr. Deez

Mr. Deez

Beer Prophet
Girls will be Boys;
and Boys will be Girls;
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world . . .
- Ray Davies, The Kinks; "Lola"

When the issue of boys who identify as girls not wanting to use the boys' bathroom last came up, the more tolerant voices on this Forum suggested accommodating them by letting them use a private bathroom. I thought it was wrong to change student bathroom protocol because of subjective criteria, but it was a reasonably workable compromise that avoided a real confrontation over the issue. I can generally live with that sort of arrangement. Well, apparently that's not enough anymore.

This guy wants into the girls' bathroom and locker room regardless of their discomfort, because that would make him comfortable and feel less stigmatized. The school agreed with him. Screw the girls at the school. He's not abnormal for thinking he's a girl when all objective evidence says he's not. They're abnormal and "ignorant" for being uncomfortable going to the bathroom and taking their clothes off in front of him. He's the normal person, and they're the freaks.

I'm a pretty tolerant guy and think we should generally try to get along, but there's a line. Matt Walsh may be a self-righteous blowhard at times, and he wrongly predicts the apocalypse and mayhem too often. However, I think he's most right about this. It's a bizarro world, and if you wonder why homeschooling is growing rapidly, this type of ******** controversy is a huge reason why.
 
If you have 2 X chromosomes, you pee here.
If you have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome, you pee over there.

It is really just that simple.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
If you have 2 X chromosomes, you pee here.
If you have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome, you pee over there.

It is really just that simple.
Click to expand...

It should be that simple, but like I said, I'm willing to play ball on that to a point with the gender neutral private bathroom. However, I'm not willing to tell the girls at the school who don't want a dude in the bathroom with them to suck it up and screw off.
 
Sometimes I think I'm a liberal. Then people like Lila and her parents remind me I'm actually a reactionary redneck from Gainesville Texas who grew up starting each school day with Protestant Christian prayers over the loudspeaker.

Lila, it's a cruel world and your gender identity conflict with your biological gender should be a problem where you graciously acknowledge you're different and accept that this does not give you the right to turn the world upside down for every anatomically correct female on campus.

I felt the same way when a blind kid joined the baseball league. Sure, it was kinda of fun and interesting for him, but it really screwed up the game for the other 17 kids on the diamond. I know we should be inclusive, but when including you is completely destructive to everyone else's enjoyment, maybe you are the one who has to make accomodations. I know it's hard, but just try to imagine for an instant where making things right for you isn't the only important thing going on in the world.
 
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Mr. Deez said:
It should be that simple, but like I said, I'm willing to play ball on that to a point with the gender neutral private bathroom. However, I'm not willing to tell the girls at the school who don't want a dude in the bathroom with them to suck it up and screw off.
Click to expand...
You know, if those girls all decided to collectively kick the **** out of the little ******* boy who showed up in their locker room/bathroom, I bet he would very quickly see the wisdom of making a different choice.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
You know, if those girls all decided to collectively kick the **** out of the little ******* boy who showed up in their locker room/bathroom, I bet he would very quickly see the wisdom of making a different choice.
Click to expand...

I don't advocate hurting the guy. I'm sure he has gotten his share of ***-whippings from guys just for looking, dressing, and acting like he does. Hell, if he had gone to school in my day (graduated in 1994), he would have gotten beaten up every day. Furthermore, I feel bad for him. For him to be that screwed up, something is probably seriously wrong at home.

What should happen is he should be required to use the boys bathroom but also be allowed to do so in peace, and the school should protect him from bullies.
 
Yep. I agree with that. But if he is taking action that forces the girls to all be uncomfortable, I think they should let him know just how uncomfortable they are with his choice.

A gender neutral bathroom option is the best of all choices here.
 
Usually schools have gone the other way on this and told the kid "no". I'm interested in why this one went the other way. Were there rulings in the previous cases that went one way or another? One was in colorado if I remember correctly.
 
In an earlier story on this it said this started last year and this person was allowed to use the teachers/staff restroom .Apparently this person( I don't know what to call this person ) decided that wasn't accommodation enough.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
If you have 2 X chromosomes, you pee here.
If you have 1 X and 1 Y chromosome, you pee over there.

It is really just that simple.
Click to expand...

Aah, but it isn't that simple, and never has been. For decades, we have treated it as if it is that simple, and the small fraction of kids who feel gender-conflicted were forced to confirm. This led to tremendous psychological problems. The fact that it has been done that way for a long time does not make it right.

Mr. Deez said:
It should be that simple, but like I said, I'm willing to play ball on that to a point with the gender neutral private bathroom. However, I'm not willing to tell the girls at the school who don't want a dude in the bathroom with them to suck it up and screw off.
Click to expand...

While I disagree that it should be that simple, I agree with the compromise. There is no reason to turn one person's discomfort into dozens of people's discomfort.

Crockett said:
Lila, it's a cruel world and your gender identity conflict with your biological gender should be a problem where you graciously acknowledge you're different and accept that this does not give you the right to turn the world upside down for every anatomically correct female on campus.

I know we should be inclusive, but when including you is completely destructive to everyone else's enjoyment, maybe you are the one who has to make accomodations. I know it's hard, but just try to imagine for an instant where making things right for you isn't the only important thing going on in the world.
Click to expand...

Bingo. The word you chose ("different") is exactly right. Not weird, not perverted, not evil -- just different.

Mr. Deez said:
Furthermore, I feel bad for him. For him to be that screwed up, something is probably seriously wrong at home.
Click to expand...

I too feel bad for her (not him!!!), but the statement that there is "something seriously wrong at home" turns my stomach. Nobody quite knows why, but gender conflict happens. Gender-conflicted kids are that way from a very young age. The ones who end up REALLY screwed up are the ones whose parents force them to stay with their birth gender, or worse yet ostracize them. Statistics on suicide rates back this up, as do the vast majority of mental-health experts.

I understand the knee-jerk resistance to accepting something we don't understand. But gender conflict is a real thing and it isn't going away. Plus, it isn't nearly as big of a problem as resistance to it is.
 
I hate to say this, but, I have issues with the legitimacy of this guy/girl's gender issues.
I don't know tons about this topic, but I do know that from everything I have heard or read from transgendered people, they all say they felt like they were in the wrong body for as long as they could remember. Literally since they began to think, they felt trapped in the wrong body. I do believe there is such a thing. There are hermaphrodites, and it is much easier to chop off a penis than a vagina. I know one person who is fairly close who has struggled with transgender.
Supposedly deciding you are transgender, slapping on a terrible wig with bobby pins, and making a national fuss seems like a cry for attention.

By his/her own admission, "she" has felt like he was a she "since I was 13 or 14 years old".
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
I call media ***** on this situation.
 
Hollandtx said:
Supposedly deciding you are transgender, slapping on a terrible wig with bobby pins, and making a national fuss seems like a cry for attention.

By his/her own admission, "she" has felt like he was a she "since I was 13 or 14 years old".
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
I call media ***** on this situation.
Click to expand...

I don't know enough to agree or disagree, but you raise an interesting point that is consistent with my own limited knowledge.
 
"That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works."
Nicely played.
I admit I don't know either
BUT I do know we can't/ shouldn't always pander to one at the expense of many others.
 
In the limited context of this issue, the legitimacy of gender disorders doesn't really matter to me. The other kids have a legal right to public education free of something that almost every person on the planet would feel very uncomfortable with. This is especially true considering there is such a simple solution - a gender neutral staff bathroom. We care so much about the feelings of the kids and work so hard to make school a safe place with anti-bullying measures and other programs. How can we justify tossing all of that aside so that one student can avoid a readily available solution.
 
The fact that the issue had been solved, but this person forged ahead with his/her agenda, is what convinces me this is a show for the media. Sorry, no matter what your gender issues may be, no one should be treated like a special little snowflake at the expense of others.

Sadly, the uproar created by this person will probably make it worse for those who truly struggle and just want to feel ok and fit in as best they can.
 
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Holland nailed it. It is likely for the media attention
and now a female/male? IN Va is complaining about the same thing.
She identifies as a male, was given a neutral restroom to use but then sued to be allowed to use the boys restroom.
from Wapo link ( notice Wapo's use of the words peers to describe boys)
"A federal judge has denied a transgender teenager’s request to allow him to use the same bathroom as his peers at his public school in Virginia.

Instead, the judge ruled Friday, the teenager must continue using a separate, private bathroom that he has said makes him feel “singled out and humiliated.”

Gavin Grimm, a teenage boy who was born female, used the boys’ bathroom for seven weeks with no problem, according to the American Civil Liberties Union, which brought a lawsuit against the Gloucester County School Board on his behalf.

But then parents heard about the teen using the boys’ restroom and complained. The school board passed a rule, 6 to 1, that restricts the bathrooms to students of the “corresponding biological genders.”

Grimm and the ACLU challenged the school board policy, and the U.S. Justice Department weighed in in Grimm’s favor.


“Singling out transgender students and subjecting them to differential treatment can also make them more vulnerable to bullying and harassment, a problem that transgender students already face,” the Justice Department wrote. “Allowing transgender students to use the restrooms consistent with their gender identity will help prevent stigma that results in bullying and harassment and will ensure that the District fosters a safe and supportive learning environment for all students, a result that is unquestionably in the public interest.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...516238-534d-11e5-9812-92d5948a40f8_story.html

Are people at this DOJ REALLY this stupid?
 
Horn6721 said:
“Singling out transgender students and subjecting them to differential treatment can also make them more vulnerable to bullying and harassment, a problem that transgender students already face,” the Justice Department wrote
Click to expand...

This is a baffling statement to me. Do they really believe that singling the person out for a separate bathroom is somehow going to single that person out? I feel like wearing the dress and the makeup pretty much has that covered already.

I do find it very conflicting that we have told women for years to be proud of their gender, to not be ashamed of it, to learn to be comfortable and happy with yourself, and now when someone feels conflict in that regard, we tell them they're right to feel off, and that they need to biologically alter their body in order to be happy.
 
Seems to me that "Boys", "Girls", and a restroom for "Anybody and Everybody" would suffice.

This way, anybody who wants to support little snowflake can use the unisex restroom with little snowflake, and those who prefer their traditional gender assignments can use the traditional restrooms.
 
And now saying you are transgender can keep you from being deported even if you are an illegal who was previously deported AND is a felon and has been convicted of injuring people while driving drunk.
This convicted felon illegal transgender only had to say he/she was tortured by Mexican police to convince the 9th Circuit court to grant he/she status to stay in USA.
Why would we believe him'her? There is no proof the torture actually happened.

from link:
A previously deported criminal alien from Mexico with a felony conviction has been allowed to stay in the United States because he is transgender. Deportation would be inhumane, the Federal Appeal Courts for the Ninth Circuit ruled.

In the opinion filed on September 3, Judge Jacqueline Nguyen disregarded the fact that Edin Avendano-Hernandez, who had been previously deported, had been convicted of DWI and had a felony conviction for injuring people while driving drunk when ruling in his/her favor.

The judge further criticized the lower courts for being insensitive to the previously deported criminal alien.

The judge ruled that Avendano was able to get relief under the Convention Act of Torture thus overturning the ruling of an immigration judge and the Board of Immigration Appeals. Nguyen stated that if deported Avendano would be subjected to torture in Mexico."
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015...ien-allowed-to-stay-because-he-is-transgender
 
This school bathroom topic came up at home last week. My 9th grade son has a female on his football team. She dresses in the women's locker room then joins the boys for a pre-practice meeting with the team in the boys locker room. My 11th grade son who also dresses for cross country says he feels so uncomfortable dressing with her in the room that he's now resigned to changing in his car. He's self conscious enough as a skinny kid dressing in front of the football players, let alone with a girl in the locker room.

I fault the coaches for using the locker room for a pre-practice meeting. If you have a girl on the team, you move the meeting. It speaks to how uncomfortable kids can be with someone of the opposite gender when they are dressing.
 
Husker
I agree with you. (There must be a rainbow somewhere).
Either the coaches are clueless OR they might be trying to run her off the team.

question, so the football team meeting is going on at the same time your son needs to dress for cross country. in the same room?
 
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