Gang of 6 to the rescue

mcbrett
you think there is no talking with some people?
I agree
and this attitude doesn't exactly show any willingness to talk does it?: 'What idea you think is best is irrelevant because it would never pass."
 
I seriously doubt that if the American people were asked, "Do you support the bi-partisan debt ceiling plan that does not reduce our nation's debt and in fact, will increase the national debt each year," that 60% would say yes.
 
It's also not a country where if you feel your idea is better- you get your way.

If I had an idea, and 71% of the country felt it was either off, or should be compromised- I may want to reassess my idea. Or, instead, I could continue to be smug and tell myself that I am the smart one and everyone else is stupid.
rolleyes.gif
 
mcbrett
You are a smart guy . I don't agree with you much I but I know you are smart.
I also know you realize that CBS poll you linked didn't show much. It showed that 71% of the 810 people CBS called said they didn't agree with the way the GOp is handling the debt ceiling negotiations.
Did those people even know what the GOP was asking for? Remember they wanted to vote a short extension to increase debt ceiling so the at that time so the different deficit reducing plans ( at that time ONLY the GOP had offered any) could be discussed. What is so bad about that?

If those 810 people watched MSM they saw and heard that media constantly lambast the GOP and praise Obama for being a leader.

So you think because 71% thought what the GOP wanted was wrong it should not be adopted?

Yet after Obama vowed he would veto a short term extension increase of the debt ceiling that is apparently what will be done.
So was the 71% right? or is obama now right?
 
Reducing the size of government is not going to be popular. Those affected by the cuts will likely protest loudly. See Greece, or even Wisconsin. Unfortunately we are spending so far beyond our means that dramatic cuts are absolutely necessary. Will Washington have the courage to get it done? Not likely. Even in the unlikely event that Congress could come to an agreement on a plan with real possibilites, Obama has to sign off on it and reducing government is just not in his DNA.
 
I agree mcbrett that we should have to compromise on things when it comes to policy but doesn't mean that the more popular plan is the correct plan. Even if it was the plan that was compromised on.

This goes back to this turning into strictly a political issue. People on the other side, whether it is left or right, can't stand that one other side comes up with a good idea. If the other side comes up with a good idea, then they cannot take credit for it. Which means they have to bash it and say theirs is the best. Politicians care only about one thing--reelection. This environment in which current elected officials live in only revolves around getting their job back and has nothing to do with what is best for America.

For one second stop and think about what would be the honest solution to our problem, instead of thinking about what you believe should happen. If you are honest with yourself, you will see that balancing the budget and having massive cuts in government is the first step to this problem. I can even say that raising taxes or stopping loopholes and credits should be implemented for the short term until the culture changes in Washington. Long term solution is definitely a balance budget amendment to the constitution and any surplus in revenue strictly goes to paying the debt down.
 
i am not sure what there is to compromise when you are out of other peoples money. There really isn't much room to negotiate here. You either fix it, or we eventually collapse. Why is this so hard to comprehend. And when i say collapse I mean we will not be able to pay even our actual "debts" i.e. interest on our notes, and we will default in every sense. We are not that far away from such an event. Compromise and we will collapse. It is that simple. Whether you like that or not is really not relevent.
 
007
Do you wonder that seemingly smart people can't look at what went on in Greece? Ireland?Spain? and not see that is essentially what we are near here?
i see the Senate " tabled" CC&B. how very poltical.
 
paso
I know you understand the point of my post but you wanted to snark
show me where I said the USA economy is like the Greek economy
and then for extra credit can you point out any similarities between each country's situation?
 
It's just difficult to chat with some of you when you re-frame the discussion so much.

The choice is not- "fix the economy with spending cuts or else let it fail."

The choice is, and the compromise is- HOW to do it- and reduced tax cuts for some if the compromise, as well as a restructured tax code and an end of some particular subsidies. Those, in no way, prevent the goal of reducing the deficit.

And if you are making analogies to Greece, which is a joke, they too understood that increased revenue is a part of the solution they are implementing.

It's not about what is most popular- I think some of you are just out of touch with a large part of the country that views this solution to the same idea differently than you- and no, they are not "stupid" because they see it differently than you.
 
McBrett,

What you are not understanding is this "compromise" does nothing to solve the problem. It does not reduce the debt 1 cent, it does just the opposite and increases our debt each and every year.

Forget the revenue vs cuts argument and focus on a solution to the problem. You keep wanting to make this about one side vs the other and politics. I oppose this plan because it does nothing to solve the problem. It's simply more window dressing from Washington.
 
we are outspending revenue by 2 TRILLION this year. We get somewhere between 15-19% of GDP as revenue. i.e. 17 TRILLION economy produced 2.5 trillion in revenue. So, all else being equal we need to basically double our economic output grow our economy to 34 trillion to garner enough tax revenue to meet the spending. Now do you see how absurd it is when people talk about fixing this on teh revenue side? YOu take more money out of the economy in taxes right now, and see how things look. This is not a vaccum, you cannot simply say lets squeeze more revenue out of this thing. We are out of other peoples money. the utopian, redistribution wet dream is dead. This can only be fixed on the spending side. Until that gets fixed there is no compromise. That is just the way it is. You can try and talk about loopholes and this or that, and maybe you get a couple of hundred billion. The problem is 2 TRILLION. That is the problem for one year. Going forward you need to eliminate 2 TRillion per year, and then maybe worry about the 14 trillion in oustanding debt. Get the deficit to zero and I will kick in some extra to retire debt. ASk me for more, and don't balance the budget and I say furk off.
 
Paso
Now that it has been shown i did NOT say the economies were the same you go on anther slant and No i did not say they were hte 2 were functionally equivalent.
I said,"Do you wonder that seemingly smart people can't look at what went on in Greece ... and not see that is essentially what we are near here?"

Do you Paos think We are not nearing a tipping point with our Debt? Did Greece reach that point?

If you are saying that some of the things that have gone on in Greece and Ireland and Spain are NOT similar to things going on here now you are just wanting to ignore what is going on;

here is an Op by a WSJ writer, Stephen Bernard from June
"Though their overall economic situations are vastly different, both the U.S. and Greece could be looking at near-term defaults on their national debt.
Debt-To-GDP Ratio: Greece 152.3% vs. USA 99.5%
These are the gross debt-to-GDP ratios projected for the end of 2011 by the International Monetary Fund.
The ratio includes all state and local government debt. By 2016, Greece’s debt-to-GDP ratio is predicted to be 145.5% compared with 111.9% for the U.S."
End of quote

here is where we are better off than Greece
–Two-Year Note Yield: 25.58% vs. 0.43%

The tell-tale sign that borrowers don’t want to hold Greek debt? Look no further than the yield on its two-year notes. Investors are clearly much more comfortable holding short-term U.S. debt."

More comparions and more differences at link
The Link

The protests in Greeve were worse but the protests in Wisc weren't love ins
But anyone who thinks we are not heading into trouble, much like those other countries mentioned and many not mentioned have their heads in the sand.

let me repeart
NO Our economy is not like greece's but there are similar events.
 
This is true. Cut, Cap & Balance has already passed the house.

What has the Gang of 6 plan passed?

What has the White House plan passed? Oh yeah, there isn't a White House plan.

Look, I know Obama is busy. He's the President, after all. But what in the world do his financial advisors do to claim a paycheck?
 
I must say that this administration is very open-minded about spending. Lot's of green light thinking there.

Except with NASA.
frown.gif
 
so no one can respond to the revenue scenario? Yeah. That one isn't as easy as Obama thinks it is. "oh lets jsut get more money, and make the corporations do their share". Right. That would be so easy to get another trillion out of them right Barry? Geezus.
 
Oilfield
Remember what Obama said lasy week. That he'd rather be working on new programs,
NEW PROGRAMS= More spending.
That is some compromise
 
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