Ford cancels 1.6 billion $ plant in Mexico

[djimaplon]

Yeah that the Social Security trust fund, whose primary holdings are ...you guessed it US government debt....and the gall to say they have a surplus till...

 

[I35]

How many of you blasted Obama for bailing out the auto industry but love Trump for using the President Elect bully pulpit on this. Call it what it is ....Government intervention.

I thought you weren't being serious until I seen your follow up questions. I can't even imagine how you think or see things. Tell me, how much of the money that was used to bail out the auto industry was earned by the Auto industry or the federal government to bail them out? How much of the money that Ford has was earned by the government or the Auto Industry? Is Ford receiving money from the Government that came from others? Do you really not see the difference?

 

[Seattle Husker]

no sir ... it won't be there for him or for me at a level which will matter. The best Gen Xers can hope to get is not being taxed any more on the money they've invested for their own retirement. That "supplement" isn't going to make a down payment on a 72 Ford Pinto in 2035.

it wouldn't matter if I had 100 kids ... Sosh Security is done and the quicker we realize that, the less painful it'll be for our kids. I'm aware of the 10:1 pay;take ratio ... that was the concept used to justify the welfare program into which SS became (thanks LBJ/Nixon) ... but when it's broke, it's broke. And it's broke.

Evidently there is a move afoot to get teachers in Texas out of TRS and into the Sosh Security system. They'd better rethink that. The only problem with TRS is the ever increasing quotient to be eligible, but at least the value is there eventually. SS is a goner.

Here is an interesting NPR article on retirement discussions when 401k's came to fruition. Summary: There was always going to be 3 legs of the retirement equation: SS, Pension and 401k. Now the first 2 are in jeopardy and companies are offloading nearly 100% of the risk to employees in the form of 401k. The gist of the story is that even those that were involved in the formation of 401k's didn't seen them leading to the demise of pensions.

 

[djimaplon]

I thought you weren't being serious until I seen your follow up questions. I can't even imagine how you think or see things. Tell me, how much of the money that was used to bail out the auto industry was earned by the Auto industry or the federal government to bail them out? How much of the money that Ford has was earned by the government or the Auto Industry? Is Ford receiving money from the Government that came from others? Do you really not see the difference?

You seem to think I am arguing the bailout was good...if I might channel Trump from the debate... WRONG. I am not taking a side either way. The reality is a market solution (bankruptcy) would likely have been able to extract better value in the long run. But the question is whether the parties involved (shareholders, bondholders, unions and Federal Government) would have been willing to endure the necessary short term pain of such a solution.

Returning to tariffs, do you understand the concept of free flow of capital? Do you understand that punitive tariffs on companies negatively affects that free flow. Sure they're different by the fact they are separate instances, but both are forms of intervention. keep rolling those eyes...smh.

 

[Horn6721]

Have there been any tariffs levied?

 

[ShAArk92]

The gist of the story is that even those that were involved in the formation of 401k's didn't seen them leading to the demise of pensions.

well ... I got into a rabbit chase about pensions in a thread about Ford ...

but yes ... my compatriots & I lost our pension in the company's filing for bankruptcy. As a group, we'd given a LOT in the past 20 years to keep that pension, so I'm actually glad it's gone. The problem is we don't have the returned value .... yet.

that's not unique to our situation, it's happening throughout our economy, but that's what happens when there is reliance upon government to solve problems. Let the market decide and honor freedom of association ... if we didn't have the Feds meddling in labor management affairs, we'd have a LOT better handle on what the market really is. But anyhoo.

The problem with the 401k is that there's such a need for tax deferral in the first place. If the citizens' tax burden wasn't so great, 401k wouldn't be a noticeable, let alone significant, need ... but now, like Sosh Security and medicare (& soon to be universal single payer) ... all government does is create dependence upon itself.

The point which allowed for the spin-off ... understanding who earned and who owns the wealth. It's not the governments! Stop thinking any of it has a claim by government (not you specifically, SH)

 

[NJlonghorn]

Now, Trump is threatening a "big tax" on car imports by Toyota. Bullying a non-American company into manufacturing in America is another subtle but significant step in the direction of protectionism. Link.

The free-market right has totally lost control of the party, or at least its leader. Whatever happened to growing jobs by being more competitive? Do we really have to use market-manipulating taxes to accomplish that?

 

[djimaplon]

Have there been any tariffs levied?

We're gonna play this game? Or is this one of those we need to take him seriously not literally. The Teflon will wear off once he's the President and has to own it.

 

[NJlonghorn]

The US economy added over 156k new jobs in December. Link. Trump deserves credit for each and every one of those.

Unfortunately, the job creation was 24k lower than experts were forecasting. Full blame should be placed on Obama.