Football 101: OL
- Thread starter OrangeElvis151
- Start date
beaVo
500+ Posts
ok.. help me out here..
you 've got the center, then the OL next to him are the guards, then outside the guards you have the tackles, right?
and someone stated the OT's are typically the slowest of all the linemen. aren't they lined up against the DE's, which are the fastest of the D.linemen?
seems to me you'd want the tackles to be faster than the guards and you'd want more power out of the guards to force things open in the middle.
you 've got the center, then the OL next to him are the guards, then outside the guards you have the tackles, right?
and someone stated the OT's are typically the slowest of all the linemen. aren't they lined up against the DE's, which are the fastest of the D.linemen?
seems to me you'd want the tackles to be faster than the guards and you'd want more power out of the guards to force things open in the middle.
1. Base block on MLB for middle running plays
2. Cutoff block on MLB for outside running plays
3. Block back on weakside 1 for Strong side running plays
If not the easiest block for a center, it is the second-easiest (unless you are facing a quick DT (Tommie Harris), then it is one of the hardest blocks in football). Let's say the DT is a one-technique on the weak side (inside eye of the guard). If the backside guard is pulling across the center to the strong side (trap, sweep, bootleg, etc.) The center has to snap, take a lateral step with his weakside foot, and try to get his helmet in front of the backside DT. This will effectively cut off his penetration. The C will then continue to drive him away from the strong side, maybe bear-crawling and rolling up the ankle. If the head does not get in front of the DT, he will be wreaking havoc in the backfield. This will eliminate all plays that require the backside guard pulling. If the DT is really good, it might be hard for the backside guard to reach him. Then, you would have to counter with the center and guard comboing him on plays away, or double-teaming him on weakside plays. If you are comboing him on a strong-side run, the MLB is running free.
If you decide to give up the strong side run and focus on weakside plays, you are stuck in a numbers crunch against their weakside defense (Will, Mike, and Weakside DE) against tackle and fullback.
I bet we will work some double tight this year to solidify the running game. I also imagine that we will be working on Dockery/Tillman blocking Harris one-on-one and running the weakside ISO at a JUCO LB.
2. Cutoff block on MLB for outside running plays
3. Block back on weakside 1 for Strong side running plays
If not the easiest block for a center, it is the second-easiest (unless you are facing a quick DT (Tommie Harris), then it is one of the hardest blocks in football). Let's say the DT is a one-technique on the weak side (inside eye of the guard). If the backside guard is pulling across the center to the strong side (trap, sweep, bootleg, etc.) The center has to snap, take a lateral step with his weakside foot, and try to get his helmet in front of the backside DT. This will effectively cut off his penetration. The C will then continue to drive him away from the strong side, maybe bear-crawling and rolling up the ankle. If the head does not get in front of the DT, he will be wreaking havoc in the backfield. This will eliminate all plays that require the backside guard pulling. If the DT is really good, it might be hard for the backside guard to reach him. Then, you would have to counter with the center and guard comboing him on plays away, or double-teaming him on weakside plays. If you are comboing him on a strong-side run, the MLB is running free.
If you decide to give up the strong side run and focus on weakside plays, you are stuck in a numbers crunch against their weakside defense (Will, Mike, and Weakside DE) against tackle and fullback.
I bet we will work some double tight this year to solidify the running game. I also imagine that we will be working on Dockery/Tillman blocking Harris one-on-one and running the weakside ISO at a JUCO LB.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
Incidentally, this was the set ( the JUMBO set mentioned earlier ) for the Roll Left that Macovic called in St Louis back when...
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
Single correction to CK's words....
As a center with countless OL and QB coaches, I've never heard tell of snapping to the scrote. NEVER. The QBs second knuckle of the "bird" finger of the throwing hand should be on (not in) the center's bunghole. The snap should be sent to that same spot. Trust me, centers don't want to snap to the scrote, snapping the ball is not a lolligaging type of motion.
The non-twisted snap motion that CK speaks of is foreign to me. But I've probably not been around as long as CK, so it may have just gone out of style. Sounds painful though.
As a center with countless OL and QB coaches, I've never heard tell of snapping to the scrote. NEVER. The QBs second knuckle of the "bird" finger of the throwing hand should be on (not in) the center's bunghole. The snap should be sent to that same spot. Trust me, centers don't want to snap to the scrote, snapping the ball is not a lolligaging type of motion.
The non-twisted snap motion that CK speaks of is foreign to me. But I've probably not been around as long as CK, so it may have just gone out of style. Sounds painful though.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
Another big reason the center makes the call for the line, and even the QB & RBs, is that he normally leaves the huddle after the first time the play and snap count are called. Thus, he has seen the D's alignment longer, and had more time to fully process what this means to this play in this situation. The center, in the pro-styled Os that most run, is responsible for making the main calls, especially for the entire back-side of the play.
Front-side tackles may make some calls, but they are normall late in the cadence and most of these only effect their guard, TE or RB.
The C will normally call the D&D for the play when he calls the huddle just before the QB gives the call. This can be very important for the QB, WRs, and RBs, who are normally doing a lot of other things between plays, like running on & off the field, getting signals and making sure their arm bands, gloves, socks, and spat still look good n fresh.
The Center should be the "smartest" OLman. By smartest I mean knowing what everyone from one TE to the other is doing on each play. Gaurds can pretty much just do what they're told by either their OT or the C. OTs have to make a lot of decisions pre- and immediatly post-snap. Some teams use calls for this but a lot (maybe most) use hand signals, cause the call is actually telling the RB what to do and they ofter can't hear the OTs anyway.
Centers normally have middle to back side help responsibilities on pure pass (not PlayAction) plays. So upon the snap if the D is playing it straight, the C would jab w/ his play side hand to help that gaurd while looking from the MLB to the backside DT to the Back side OLB to the backside DE. Once this progression is completed, if no one is in need of help, the C should punch enthusiastically at the nearest ribcage he can find. By then he can normally release down field to the ball hoping to knock the last bit of intellegence from the caverns of some defensive tiny-hinny, or fall on a fumble if needed.
The hardest thing for a center to do would be to reach-block a slanted nose on his snap hand with no help. This is a really good way to dislocate your thumb on your snap hand.
Front-side tackles may make some calls, but they are normall late in the cadence and most of these only effect their guard, TE or RB.
The C will normally call the D&D for the play when he calls the huddle just before the QB gives the call. This can be very important for the QB, WRs, and RBs, who are normally doing a lot of other things between plays, like running on & off the field, getting signals and making sure their arm bands, gloves, socks, and spat still look good n fresh.
The Center should be the "smartest" OLman. By smartest I mean knowing what everyone from one TE to the other is doing on each play. Gaurds can pretty much just do what they're told by either their OT or the C. OTs have to make a lot of decisions pre- and immediatly post-snap. Some teams use calls for this but a lot (maybe most) use hand signals, cause the call is actually telling the RB what to do and they ofter can't hear the OTs anyway.
Centers normally have middle to back side help responsibilities on pure pass (not PlayAction) plays. So upon the snap if the D is playing it straight, the C would jab w/ his play side hand to help that gaurd while looking from the MLB to the backside DT to the Back side OLB to the backside DE. Once this progression is completed, if no one is in need of help, the C should punch enthusiastically at the nearest ribcage he can find. By then he can normally release down field to the ball hoping to knock the last bit of intellegence from the caverns of some defensive tiny-hinny, or fall on a fumble if needed.
The hardest thing for a center to do would be to reach-block a slanted nose on his snap hand with no help. This is a really good way to dislocate your thumb on your snap hand.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
Rimbo, that was funny. Plus, in the end you figured it all out by yourself. Don't you love that feeling of accomplishment.
Seriously, the teaching your body through reps and reps and more reps is the only way to successfully learn to short-snap, or shot-gun it. Doing it on the snap count is a very weird feeling the first 500 times or so.
Seriously, the teaching your body through reps and reps and more reps is the only way to successfully learn to short-snap, or shot-gun it. Doing it on the snap count is a very weird feeling the first 500 times or so.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
CK is 100% correct on the Elly Whitely (sp?) method of putting an Oline togther. But really tall OLmen usually gravitate towards the outside for passing lane reasons, and because they often function better in space. Leading on the cntr-trey (that everyone is creaming their shorts over) is nothing like kicking the EOL on the same play.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
The best way to deter late blitzes by LBs is to cut them. Right before they get to you, dive with your face mask as upwards as possible at their thighs. Any lower and any LB worth two shits will jump over you.
Another favorite is to stone'em by stepping in front of them at the last second and fiercely two-hand punching them in the chest. It's ok if your hands accidentally slide into his neck. This works on OLBs best because you can normally step out from behind a fellow OLman and really surprise them. Although surprising any defensive player isn't a difficult thing to do, as they tend to be fairly single-minded, and not in a nimble fashion.
Another favorite is to stone'em by stepping in front of them at the last second and fiercely two-hand punching them in the chest. It's ok if your hands accidentally slide into his neck. This works on OLBs best because you can normally step out from behind a fellow OLman and really surprise them. Although surprising any defensive player isn't a difficult thing to do, as they tend to be fairly single-minded, and not in a nimble fashion.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
As to "drive" vs "zone" blocking, there is technically no difference. With any good RB, you never want your OL to dictate where the "hole" is. This is more especially true on "zone" plays. By "zone" I am assuming y'all mean reach sceam (sp?) plays where every OL tries to get to "head-up" on the next defender play-side.
You still want to be blocking your man "HEAD-UP" with your facemask in the middle of his chest with your hands grabing his shoulder pads by the outside of the chest piece. ( make sure your nails are trimmed tight, or you'll lose some ) By having this position and driving with short-choppy steps, with your feet at least shoulder width apart, you'll be able to control the defender best while also allowing the RB to cut off either side of you.
The other widely used run blocking sceme (again sp?) is the combo-block. This is really just a short dbl-team where the defenders dictate which OL goes to the next level. You'll see this on Iso plays, and the play-actions off them
The only time you really "want" to get your head on one side or another of a defender is on "veer" plays, like traps, treys, and serious mis-direction plays like naked boots.
Oh yeah, and when pass blocking, your "camera's eye" should always be pointed at the QB.
You still want to be blocking your man "HEAD-UP" with your facemask in the middle of his chest with your hands grabing his shoulder pads by the outside of the chest piece. ( make sure your nails are trimmed tight, or you'll lose some ) By having this position and driving with short-choppy steps, with your feet at least shoulder width apart, you'll be able to control the defender best while also allowing the RB to cut off either side of you.
The other widely used run blocking sceme (again sp?) is the combo-block. This is really just a short dbl-team where the defenders dictate which OL goes to the next level. You'll see this on Iso plays, and the play-actions off them
The only time you really "want" to get your head on one side or another of a defender is on "veer" plays, like traps, treys, and serious mis-direction plays like naked boots.
Oh yeah, and when pass blocking, your "camera's eye" should always be pointed at the QB.
OrangeElvis151
< 25 Posts
BigOrangeWoody is now on my short list of favorite posters with coachkiss & longhornscott... great stuff.
not hurting his cause, either, is the fact that he may possibly be as bad a speller as me. and THAT is saying something.
not hurting his cause, either, is the fact that he may possibly be as bad a speller as me. and THAT is saying something.
1. Base block on MLB for middle running plays
2. Cutoff block on MLB for outside running plays
3. Block back on weakside 1 for Strong side running plays
4. Double team a one technique with guard for weakside running plays
Many posters will have different ideas of how a double-team should work. I will give you my idea on what is the best way, considering what you want to accomplish. If the one technique is being double-teamed, it is the same technique as a 3 being doubled by the guard and tackle.
On each double-team you have the post block and the down block. Since the 1 will be lined up on the guard, the guard will step with his inside foot (since the DT is inside eye) to neutralize any penetration by the DT. After the snap, the center (the down block, even though he is not blocking down) will step hard with his foot on the DT side (his weakside foot). The center needs to strive to a position of butt-to-butt with the guard to eliminate any splitting of the double-team. With both players butt-to-butt on the double-team, it also assures that the movement of the DT will be back (towards the linebackers) instead of along the LOS. Many times a double-team that is good will become a combo block, because the movement of the DT catches up the LB as well.
(The step by the center is forward and lateral at the same time.)
At this point, one man tries to gain control of the double-team by sliding the other man off. Usually the man on the inside of the double team (in this case, the center) takes over the double-team by sliding his head to the outside or middle. Once the outside man has slid off (in this case, the guard), he becomes available to go to the next level.
I know that other posters will disagree with this. And, at the major college level, it might not be as effective. However, I know this works, and it works better at the HS/small college level than anything else I've seen.
2. Cutoff block on MLB for outside running plays
3. Block back on weakside 1 for Strong side running plays
4. Double team a one technique with guard for weakside running plays
Many posters will have different ideas of how a double-team should work. I will give you my idea on what is the best way, considering what you want to accomplish. If the one technique is being double-teamed, it is the same technique as a 3 being doubled by the guard and tackle.
On each double-team you have the post block and the down block. Since the 1 will be lined up on the guard, the guard will step with his inside foot (since the DT is inside eye) to neutralize any penetration by the DT. After the snap, the center (the down block, even though he is not blocking down) will step hard with his foot on the DT side (his weakside foot). The center needs to strive to a position of butt-to-butt with the guard to eliminate any splitting of the double-team. With both players butt-to-butt on the double-team, it also assures that the movement of the DT will be back (towards the linebackers) instead of along the LOS. Many times a double-team that is good will become a combo block, because the movement of the DT catches up the LB as well.
(The step by the center is forward and lateral at the same time.)
At this point, one man tries to gain control of the double-team by sliding the other man off. Usually the man on the inside of the double team (in this case, the center) takes over the double-team by sliding his head to the outside or middle. Once the outside man has slid off (in this case, the guard), he becomes available to go to the next level.
I know that other posters will disagree with this. And, at the major college level, it might not be as effective. However, I know this works, and it works better at the HS/small college level than anything else I've seen.
Coach,
The only thing I would add on your double / combo series, is a lot of teams run designated combos. In the situation you spoke of, it is predetermined that the guard would peel off for the LB. In that situation the purpose of the combo is to help a C (or any other lineman) reach a DT. Also an easy way to help an OL who is overmatched.
If you want to get a real feel for how complex and quick a lot of this is, and you never played line. Pick a series or two every game and focus on the OL. Forget about watching the ball. You'll be amazed at how much your perspective will change.
The only thing I would add on your double / combo series, is a lot of teams run designated combos. In the situation you spoke of, it is predetermined that the guard would peel off for the LB. In that situation the purpose of the combo is to help a C (or any other lineman) reach a DT. Also an easy way to help an OL who is overmatched.
If you want to get a real feel for how complex and quick a lot of this is, and you never played line. Pick a series or two every game and focus on the OL. Forget about watching the ball. You'll be amazed at how much your perspective will change.
LonghornScott
25+ Posts
Here's some simulation films I found a while back... might be helpful for some of you to see some of this stuff. You'll need realplayer.
3 point Stance
Angle Block
Double-Team Block
Drive Block
Pulling Footwork
Reach Block
Snapping the Football
3 point Stance
Angle Block
Double-Team Block
Drive Block
Pulling Footwork
Reach Block
Snapping the Football
I usually watch the game like the average fan. I also watch game films the first time the same way. The second time through I will start focusing on what the play was intended. Then, I will watch it through at least two or three times per lineman. I give a plus or minus based on the performance. I grade the linemen out that way.
It will be much easier for me to do for the UT games this year. One, I'm out of coaching and MBA school, so I have some time. Two, I have PVR for Dish Network. I love America.
It will be much easier for me to do for the UT games this year. One, I'm out of coaching and MBA school, so I have some time. Two, I have PVR for Dish Network. I love America.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
CK, I wholely (again sp?) agree with your answer to #4. The "pit-to-pit, cheek-to-cheek" technique is the only way to effectively double team a good DT, at any level. Watch Dan Neil, he's still doing this with Denver.
And that was exactly what I was talking about when I said combo. Really, OLine scheme doesn't change alot from HS to D1 to NFL, unless you're from Brownwood or somewhere else the option is the main staple. Most "zone" blocking is just a "fast combo" technique.
As for my spelling, I'm an enginerd, we do math.
"Me fail english. That's unpossible!"
And that was exactly what I was talking about when I said combo. Really, OLine scheme doesn't change alot from HS to D1 to NFL, unless you're from Brownwood or somewhere else the option is the main staple. Most "zone" blocking is just a "fast combo" technique.
As for my spelling, I'm an enginerd, we do math.
"Me fail english. That's unpossible!"
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
LS, I hope you're not using those videos to teach anyone. The audio isn't bad, just very incomplete. But the visual aides range from funny to wrong to detrimental. Especially the double team and the reach videos. I figure they're not you're handiwork, so I mean you no offense.
An OLs first step should never be bigger than about 8 or 12 inches. If an OL ever took those giant first steps he'd get thrown like a calf at the rodeo. As for the Dbl Teams, see CK's post above, the OLmen should be cheek-to-cheek. My lil' sister could split that dbl team.
CK, I too like to watch the play regular and then go back and evaluate. I so wish that those "Season Ticket" videos they send out would be interleaved copies with the wide-side view first and the back-tight copy after. I miss watching games that way.
For most fans, watching just the interior linemen would be enlightening as to how much is going on. But I'd guess most folks in any stadium would get lost pretty fast. Watching the OL only is like seeing the inards of a complex clock without knowing what time is. The details are right there, but they don't tell you what is really happening unless you know how the thing was put together.
An OLs first step should never be bigger than about 8 or 12 inches. If an OL ever took those giant first steps he'd get thrown like a calf at the rodeo. As for the Dbl Teams, see CK's post above, the OLmen should be cheek-to-cheek. My lil' sister could split that dbl team.
CK, I too like to watch the play regular and then go back and evaluate. I so wish that those "Season Ticket" videos they send out would be interleaved copies with the wide-side view first and the back-tight copy after. I miss watching games that way.
For most fans, watching just the interior linemen would be enlightening as to how much is going on. But I'd guess most folks in any stadium would get lost pretty fast. Watching the OL only is like seeing the inards of a complex clock without knowing what time is. The details are right there, but they don't tell you what is really happening unless you know how the thing was put together.
Do I Make You Horny?
100+ Posts
Great thread guys.
Could someone explain the responsibilities of the FB when we run our counter out of the offset I?
Could someone explain the responsibilities of the FB when we run our counter out of the offset I?
LonghornScott
25+ Posts
BOW,
No, they certainly aren't my videos. They aren't meant for instruction at all... I was just trying to give some of the people with no idea what was being talked about a visual aid.
No, they certainly aren't my videos. They aren't meant for instruction at all... I was just trying to give some of the people with no idea what was being talked about a visual aid.
Horny,
I'm not 100% certain, but I would assume that the fullback is filling for the pulling guard (if TE can pick up backside for tackle) or pulling tackle (if 50 defense).
A true counter action would have the fullback dive on one side with a counter step by the tailback, then taking it behind the pullers (1 or 2).
I hope I helped.
I'm not 100% certain, but I would assume that the fullback is filling for the pulling guard (if TE can pick up backside for tackle) or pulling tackle (if 50 defense).
A true counter action would have the fullback dive on one side with a counter step by the tailback, then taking it behind the pullers (1 or 2).
I hope I helped.
1. Base block on MLB for middle running plays
2. Cutoff block on MLB for outside running plays
3. Block back on weakside 1 for Strong side running plays
4. Double team a one technique with guard for weakside running plays
5. Reach a 1 for outside weakside running plays.
Probably the most difficult block for the center that I am discussing here. BOW might have a different take on how to perform this block, but this is the way I have taught it.
This block would be performed on a zone scheme to the weakside or, for some uncanny reason, he was trying to reach the 1 for a pulling guard. Most likely it would be the first one. I'm going to have to give the short-and-sweet version, because I can't demonstrate.
First step will be a hard step with the foot to the one technique side. I prefer a 45 degree toe point and the step be more horizontal than vertical. (Point the toe to the 1 techs outside hip.) The second step will be with the backside foot. Here is where the most of the discussion will occur. I like to take the back foot and step past the front foot (once again with the toe point.) I also teach a dip in the shoulder towards the one technique, which helps torque the back end around into a shoulders parallel with the LOS position. All the time I'm aiming the helmet towards the outside knee. Once I get there I swing the end around and bear crawl.
Tell me if I've let something out.
2. Cutoff block on MLB for outside running plays
3. Block back on weakside 1 for Strong side running plays
4. Double team a one technique with guard for weakside running plays
5. Reach a 1 for outside weakside running plays.
Probably the most difficult block for the center that I am discussing here. BOW might have a different take on how to perform this block, but this is the way I have taught it.
This block would be performed on a zone scheme to the weakside or, for some uncanny reason, he was trying to reach the 1 for a pulling guard. Most likely it would be the first one. I'm going to have to give the short-and-sweet version, because I can't demonstrate.
First step will be a hard step with the foot to the one technique side. I prefer a 45 degree toe point and the step be more horizontal than vertical. (Point the toe to the 1 techs outside hip.) The second step will be with the backside foot. Here is where the most of the discussion will occur. I like to take the back foot and step past the front foot (once again with the toe point.) I also teach a dip in the shoulder towards the one technique, which helps torque the back end around into a shoulders parallel with the LOS position. All the time I'm aiming the helmet towards the outside knee. Once I get there I swing the end around and bear crawl.
Tell me if I've let something out.
6/7. Zone block to the weak or strong side.
Zone blocking, defined by me, is blocking a zone or area. The way we illustrated to our players the concept of zone blocking is that you have the area from your left foot to the left foot of the man beside you (if the play is being run to the left), and your zone extends all the way to the goalpost.
We would preach not focusing in on the man in your zone, because he might move. Just block the zone, whomever might show up. Therefore, it was important for them to focus on technique and the proper steps. (If you haven't noticed, technique with OL is just as important as technique with the QB.)
The first step should be with the play side foot laterally, with a slight step forward, also. We taught our linemen to rip with the backside arm to make yourself small and allow yourself to get away from a DL trying to control you. This also makes you dip the backside shoulder.
Now that your are "in the zone", you should still be using pseudo-bearcrawling movements. As you reach the subsequent levels (LB, DB, etc.) you get higher and higher. Your head should be on a swivel (especially to the backside) in an attempt to cutoff backside pursuit.
Basically, the technique is very similar to the reach block in the last post. However, instead of knowing the man you will block, you have no idea who might come into your zone.
Zone blocking, defined by me, is blocking a zone or area. The way we illustrated to our players the concept of zone blocking is that you have the area from your left foot to the left foot of the man beside you (if the play is being run to the left), and your zone extends all the way to the goalpost.
We would preach not focusing in on the man in your zone, because he might move. Just block the zone, whomever might show up. Therefore, it was important for them to focus on technique and the proper steps. (If you haven't noticed, technique with OL is just as important as technique with the QB.)
The first step should be with the play side foot laterally, with a slight step forward, also. We taught our linemen to rip with the backside arm to make yourself small and allow yourself to get away from a DL trying to control you. This also makes you dip the backside shoulder.
Now that your are "in the zone", you should still be using pseudo-bearcrawling movements. As you reach the subsequent levels (LB, DB, etc.) you get higher and higher. Your head should be on a swivel (especially to the backside) in an attempt to cutoff backside pursuit.
Basically, the technique is very similar to the reach block in the last post. However, instead of knowing the man you will block, you have no idea who might come into your zone.
BigOrangeWoody
< 25 Posts
CK, I'd concur with most all of what you said about #s 5,6,&7
The important thing to note is that it is really hard to teach this stuff without really good visual aides, the best being a coach or player showing you. But it's probably even harder to learn it without seeing it, doing it wrong several dozen times (there are so many little details that can each make a vast improvement in a OLman's game, ex. Mike Williams from soph to sr yrs) & then finally having the light go off and seeing it in your head everytime. It's been yrs since I've done any of this, and I still have dreams about this crap sometimes.
I aggre that the unaided reach on a one tech is the hardest block for a center. I'd up the detail level to say the one tech is slanted and on the snap arm side of the C.
Also, at the college level, that first step better be a few inches backwards as well as several inches lateral. Not so much back as to be the same as the bucket step for a trap or counter pull, but with the atheleticism of today's DL, OL need that extra 3" or so of separation to get to the head up pos.
These reach blocks and "zone" schemes are only used on the furthest off-tackle plays, true pitches and the like. The problem with "zone" schemes is that if two men show in a blockers "zone" and it is near the point of attack, the play gets FUBAR real quick. OL units need a lot, & I mean a WHOLE LOT, of reps together against all conceivable fronts to be proficient at this scheme. Which is why they tend to work better as the players get older, Pros > College > HS. It's kinda like picking up an 8-man blitz, only in a running play, all hell breaks loose after the snap. This means pre-snap reads don't mean **** 1/2 the time, and improvisation by the OL and RBs is a must.
The important thing to note is that it is really hard to teach this stuff without really good visual aides, the best being a coach or player showing you. But it's probably even harder to learn it without seeing it, doing it wrong several dozen times (there are so many little details that can each make a vast improvement in a OLman's game, ex. Mike Williams from soph to sr yrs) & then finally having the light go off and seeing it in your head everytime. It's been yrs since I've done any of this, and I still have dreams about this crap sometimes.
I aggre that the unaided reach on a one tech is the hardest block for a center. I'd up the detail level to say the one tech is slanted and on the snap arm side of the C.
Also, at the college level, that first step better be a few inches backwards as well as several inches lateral. Not so much back as to be the same as the bucket step for a trap or counter pull, but with the atheleticism of today's DL, OL need that extra 3" or so of separation to get to the head up pos.
These reach blocks and "zone" schemes are only used on the furthest off-tackle plays, true pitches and the like. The problem with "zone" schemes is that if two men show in a blockers "zone" and it is near the point of attack, the play gets FUBAR real quick. OL units need a lot, & I mean a WHOLE LOT, of reps together against all conceivable fronts to be proficient at this scheme. Which is why they tend to work better as the players get older, Pros > College > HS. It's kinda like picking up an 8-man blitz, only in a running play, all hell breaks loose after the snap. This means pre-snap reads don't mean **** 1/2 the time, and improvisation by the OL and RBs is a must.
Coach K and "Woody" and anybody else for that matter....
I coach O-line at the HS level and run a Pop Warner team as well. For both, I'm working with a double-wing based offense - so you know the types of plays we run.... a lot of different counters with O, OE, OT, C and G blocks with either the B back, O gaurd, or playside gaurd being the kick or log...... Now, with all that said, I'm considering wrong-shouldering my playside down blocks to prevent penetration. What are your thoughts on this???
Obviously, I can't teach all of these schemes to the younger team, but we still kick with the B back and playside gaurd (G blocks). I'm concerned if I teach the younger ones to wrong-shoulder, they will have technique probs when base blocking......
Any thoughts are appreciated....
I coach O-line at the HS level and run a Pop Warner team as well. For both, I'm working with a double-wing based offense - so you know the types of plays we run.... a lot of different counters with O, OE, OT, C and G blocks with either the B back, O gaurd, or playside gaurd being the kick or log...... Now, with all that said, I'm considering wrong-shouldering my playside down blocks to prevent penetration. What are your thoughts on this???
Obviously, I can't teach all of these schemes to the younger team, but we still kick with the B back and playside gaurd (G blocks). I'm concerned if I teach the younger ones to wrong-shoulder, they will have technique probs when base blocking......
Any thoughts are appreciated....
If by wrong-shouldering you would have them make contact with the outside shoulder on the down block...I would agree. This gets the head across the bow and cuts off penetration. The problem that arises is a super-quick DT comes over the top of the super-small blocking surface you have left.
I would almost think you would have to with your offensive set. With the motion this offense requires (against good competition), the last thing you want is a big mass of humanity in the backfield. Penetration could kill the offense with all of the pulling you do.
If you were an I team running Iso at everybody, you have some leeway.
If that's not what you meant by wrong-shouldering, then this was all in vain.
I would almost think you would have to with your offensive set. With the motion this offense requires (against good competition), the last thing you want is a big mass of humanity in the backfield. Penetration could kill the offense with all of the pulling you do.
If you were an I team running Iso at everybody, you have some leeway.
If that's not what you meant by wrong-shouldering, then this was all in vain.
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