First Impression Democratic Party Debate

[UTChE96]

It's a trend that extends much beyond Obama or Bush II.

Not completely true. Median household income was increasing for several years of the W administration until the financial crisis. It was higher every single day of the W administration than it was under Obama. To be fair, it has very slightly trended up over the past couple years but there is no question that Obama has failed on this issue.

 

[texas_ex2000]

They eat a lot of dogs in Korea. If you were an expat living there and you lost your dog, you'd be worried.

I don't see how this is racist. Are liberals offended if an Indian politician said he wouldn't trust his steer with a Lockhart pitmaster? What would PETA say?

Liberals always playing the race card.

 

[theiioftx]

Would it be racist if one of the questions asked at either convention was, "do white lives matter or do all lives matter?" Democrat hypocrisy has no limits.

 

[Mr. Deez]

i would expect anyone able to get a ticket at the Wynn for the first televised democratic debate would have enough knowledge of Glass Steagall to not need Anderson Cooper to educate them. You do not need a deep knowledge of the law to understand it as it relates to their positions. Funny they are attacking its repeal while the wife of the man who ultimately repealed it was on stage. But maybe other congressmen were voting for the first time right after their Dad died..

And yes, I think too many people who do not understand what or who they are voting for is part of our problem.

You have a higher level of respect for primary voters than I do. Glass Steagall is pretty inside for the average voter, even for those who can get into a debate.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Wow, I just can't imagine why Asians wouldn't like Republicans. Can another candidate up the ante and make a reference to black guys with fried chicken, watermelon, and white women?

 

[theiioftx]

You have a higher level of respect for primary voters than I do. Glass Steagall is pretty inside for the average voter, even for those who can get into a debate.

No doubt, but I would think that primary voters interested enough to attend a debate in person would be well versed on the democrat's top issues of income inequality, demonization Wall Street, redistribution of wealth and climate change.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

I don't see how this is racist. Are liberals offended if an Indian politician said he wouldn't trust his steer with a Lockhart pitmaster? What would PETA say?

I think this gets back to what people consider racist. I don't know that it's racist inherently, but it shows an inclination to point out funny or negative things about another country or race - and a lot of people consider that racist. Bottom line, Mike Huckabee should know the scripture that says "Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer each person" or "Let no corrupt talk come out of your mouth, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." How is it helpful to make fun of the fact that North Korean chefs cook dog - even if it's true? Do you think the North Korean community says "well, he's got us there, and we're proud of it!" Of course not.

It was just a stupid thing to say. It doesn't mean he hates North Koreans, but it doesn't exactly scream respect, either. Reminds me of a Big Bang Theory conversation between Sheldon and his mom. "Sheldon, it's OK to be smarter than everyone else, but you can't go around telling people that." "Why not?" "BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT!!!"

 

[Mr. Deez]

No doubt, but I would think that primary voters interested enough to attend a debate in person would be well versed on the democrat's top issues of income inequality, demonization Wall Street, redistribution of wealth and climate change.

Eye, sorry to burst your bubble, but very few voters are that deep.

 

[Joe Fan]

Sanders flies coach on SWA
Got to give him props for that

 

[Mr. Deez]

PH nails this. The "it's true" defense is weak. Suppose your wife has put on a few pounds, and your 9-year-old son tells her she's fat. When she gets upset, do you tell her, "well, it's true" and tell her to suck it up? Or do you whip your bratty kid's *** for being rude to his mother? If you're a good husband and father, you do the latter. It doesn't matter if she weighs 400 pounds.

Also, this came up in one of the Trump discussions, but I'll say it again. Rudeness and political incorrectness are not the same things. If you make statements that are truthful, relevant, and helpful in making a serious point but might also offend people, that's being politically incorrect. Making statements that are irrelevant and serve no real purpose but also offend people is acting like an *******. There's a difference.

 

[Horn6721]

Husker
Do you think Huckabee's tweet was racist?
What was your point in posting it?

 

[texas_ex2000]

I think this gets back to what people consider racist. I don't know that it's racist inherently, but it shows an inclination to point out funny or negative things about another country or race - and a lot of people consider that racist. Bottom line, Mike Huckabee should know the scripture that says "Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer each person" or "Let no corrupt talk come out of your mouth, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." How is it helpful to make fun of the fact that North Korean chefs cook dog - even if it's true? Do you think the North Korean community says "well, he's got us there, and we're proud of it!" Of course not.

It was just a stupid thing to say. It doesn't mean he hates North Koreans, but it doesn't exactly scream respect, either. Reminds me of a Big Bang Theory conversation between Sheldon and his mom. "Sheldon, it's OK to be smarter than everyone else, but you can't go around telling people that." "Why not?" "BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT!!!"

Prodigal,

I'm asian/hispanic/filipino. This would be a 1 on the offensive Richter scale at a filipino party. Would you like to know what Asians say/joke about white people at these parties?

Huckabee is from Arkansas and a dog owner. He's going to say stupid stuff that people on the East and West Coasts just won't get. Meanwhile these liberals in the East and West Coasts have no idea what real compassion/honor/community/respect is really about. I grew up in Texas. People say the darndest things down here. But Texans (and others in this region of the country) are without question, the friendliest, most sincere, most hospitable, most compassionate and charitable Americans. I have perspective because I have studied/worked/and lived in New England, NYC, and Washington, DC.

People get so "offended" by social media stupidity. Really folks? Tweets? Again, I ask "Are liberals offended if an Indian politician said he wouldn't trust his steer with a Lockhart pitmaster? What would PETA say?"

You know what offends me - an Asian American? When people lie to me. When people denigrate my faith. When people patronize me.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

I'm asian/hispanic/filipino. This would be a 1 on the offensive Richter scale at a filipino party. Would you like to know what Asians say/joke about white people?

And on an individual level, I agree, and if Huckabee were Joe Blow, I'd tell people to get a life and grow a skin.

But he's dealing with a national audience, which as you say, has a wide range of responses to comments like that. He has to know that by now. It's not about what's right or wrong, it's about what's smart and what's useful and what's respectful. If he manages to NOT bring up a North Korean dog-eating chef, is that going to offend anyone? it would have been pretty easy for him to say what he needed to say and only offend the people who disagree with the point he's trying to make.

It's just more noise in the message, and right or wrong, that noise is always going to be a factor and you have to manage it. Is it "right" that when I go to Japan, there are certain things that I may do without thinking that people are going to find offensive, so I am expected to modify my behavior, while they're not expected to modify theirs? It's irrelevant - because that's the way it is. Telling them that they're being overly sensitive is not going to change that. Same in this case - just make your point and know your audience.

Ultimately, what's more important? Making a "funny" comment? Or getting a conservative message across to as many people as possible and building a national coalition around values that a large portion of Americans across nationalities share?

 

[texas_ex2000]

And on an individual level, I agree, and if Huckabee were Joe Blow, I'd tell people to get a life and grow a skin.

But he's dealing with a national audience, which as you say, has a wide range of responses to comments like that. He has to know that by now. It's not about what's right or wrong, it's about what's smart and what's useful and what's respectful. If he manages to NOT bring up a North Korean dog-eating chef, is that going to offend anyone? it would have been pretty easy for him to say what he needed to say and only offend the people who disagree with the point he's trying to make.

It's just more noise in the message, and right or wrong, that noise is always going to be a factor and you have to manage it. Is it "right" that when I go to Japan, there are certain things that I may do without thinking that people are going to find offensive, so I am expected to modify my behavior, while they're not expected to modify theirs? It's irrelevant - because that's the way it is. Telling them that they're being overly sensitive is not going to change that. Same in this case - just make your point and know your audience.

Ultimately, what's more important? Making a "funny" comment? Or getting a conservative message across to as many people as possible and building a national coalition around values that a large portion of Americans across nationalities share?

This is the "it's not really about it being racist - it's his judgement" deflection.

Political correctness clouds communication and dialogue. People are afraid to communicate sincerely, and other people tune out a message because it may not have been delivered in a PC friendly manner and tune into a diluted message because it was PC.

Political correctness does not help us talk to each other.

And it's not about "getting a life and growing a thick skin." It's about fundamentally understanding that people/tweets aren't racist just because they aren't PC.

 

[Seattle Husker]

This is the "it's not really about it being racist - it's his judgement" deflection.

Political correctness clouds communication and dialogue. People are afraid to communicate sincerely, and other people tune out a message because it may not have been delivered in a PC friendly manner and tune into a diluted message because it was PC.

Political correctness does not help us talk to each other.

And it's not about "getting a life and growing a thick skin." It's about fundamentally understanding that people/tweets aren't racist just because they aren't PC.

What was he trying to communicate? He was making a joke at the notable expense of others and reinforcing an Asian stereotype. In the end is was an extremely disrespectful comment that greatly detracted from his message for anyone except a small minority. For that minority are they talking about Bernie Sander's tax plan or the North Korean's eat dog comment? It didn't advance the conversation but rather was a cheap one-liner that reinforced the stereotype that the Far Right only respects White Christian Males. I'm not saying that's right but every statement like this vastly undercuts any statements that the Republican party is inclusive. It's disingenuous to say I care about you then denigrate you in the next sentence.

As an aside, a national politicians public statements should be held to a vastly higher standard then what you and your family might say in family gatherings. If you feel your statements shouldn't be tempered by the setting then we'll have to fundamentally disagree. What I say at home doesn't always match what I say at work. What I say to my wife doesn't always match what I say to my kids. How I act/say in Seattle may not always match how I act in Dallas when I visit my father/family there. You may call that "PC" but I call it being respectful to the culture I'm in at the moment.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Husker
Do you think Huckabee's tweet was racist?
What was your point in posting it?

My point? It was funny yet extremely disrespectful. Is Mike Huckabee racist? Not transparently but the statement was obviously disrespectful and not befitting of a presidential candidate. If you can't see this then you'll continue to wonder why the Republican base continues to shrink when it's staring you in the face.

 

[texas_ex2000]

As an aside, a national politicians public statements should be held to a vastly higher standard then what you and your family might say in family gatherings.

For a business? Sure. Politics are not business. How we decide how this country runs is more akin to the discussions families have with each other versus a board meeting of a large corporation.

You know what, let me clarify. The external communications of a business...sure, they should be PC. Board meetings, however, are decidedly not PC because the directors are owners/shareholders of the company. Likewise, the citizens of this country are shareholders in the government.

It's disingenuous to say I care about you then denigrate you in the next sentence.

You do know that save for Chinese Americans practically every Asian American immigrant/their family came here from a country that North Korea threatened to turn into a glowing beach right? And even the Chinese are getting tired of DPRK and worried.

 

[Seattle Husker]

For a business? Sure. Politics are not business. How we decide how this country runs is more akin to the discussions families have with each other versus a board meeting of a large corporation.

You know what, let me clarify. The external communications of a business...sure, they should be PC. Board meetings, however, are decidedly not PC because the directors are owners/shareholders of the company. Likewise, the citizens of this country are shareholders in the government.

A shareholder is vastly different than a board member. The reason the BOD exists is because you can't run a company via Shareholders. The shareholders communication is closely shaped similar to a companies message to the market. In this case, Huckabee was using external communications. This wasn't a fundraiser event or even a campaign event. This was a message directly to the customer market which made the statement more appalling.

 

[texas_ex2000]

A shareholder is vastly different than a board member. The reason the BOD exists is because you can't run a company via Shareholders. The shareholders communication is closely shaped similar to a companies message to the market. In this case, Huckabee was using external communications. This wasn't a fundraiser event or even a campaign event. This was a message directly to the customer market which made the statement more appalling.

Board members represent shareholders, effectively a caucus of shareholders.

 

[Horn6721]

I bet if you asked every "Asian" in USA if they thought this tweet mentioning a North Korean chef was racist toward them less than 1/50th of 1 % would say yes. Most hate them with a passion.

But it is kind of you to be outraged and appalled on behalf of North Korea.

 

[crizistre]

Ridiculous discussion about Huckabee. It has now taken over the thread.

Hillary Clinton was a politician's wife until 2001. Her sense of entitlement is crazy. Why anyone voted to make her a senator in a state in which she didn't even live is beyond mind boggling. I said at the time that Barbara Bush was more entitled to run for the senate because her husband had been a congressman, Ambassador to the UN, director of the CIA, twice VP and once POTUS.

Let's get back to the thread. Thank you.

 

[Monahorns]

I think Huckabee is right. You can't trust Communists with taxes or dogs because they consume both. Ha!

 

[Seattle Husker]

I bet if you asked every "Asian" in USA if they thought this tweet mentioning a North Korean chef was racist toward them less than 1/50th of 1 % would say yes. Most hate them with a passion.

But it is kind of you to be outraged and appalled on behalf of North Korea.

You do realize that multiple Asian American organizations have publicly responded with disdain right? The Democrats must be giddy that the Republicans still don't recognize or care about their demographic problem.

 

[texas_ex2000]

I bet if you asked every "Asian" in USA if they thought this tweet mentioning a North Korean chef was racist toward them less than 1/50th of 1 % would say yes. Most hate them with a passion.

But it is kind of you to be outraged and appalled on behalf of North Korea.

That can't be true because we all know that Asians are one homologated race. AND THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE. Duh.

You do realize that multiple Asian American organizations have publicly responded with disdain right? The Democrats must be giddy that the Republicans still don't recognize or care about their demographic problem.

Where did you get that from? Their social media accounts? If you look up confirmation bias in the dictionary, they'll define it as finding offended people on social media.

And I wouldn't have guessed that organizations based on identity politics would find something offensive. I've never heard of the Asian American organizations that claim to speak for me and want to commandeer my voice. It would be like the Aggie Student Democrats saying they speak for all aggies when they support Hillary's gun control policies. Asian Americans don't have anything like a nationally recognized NAACP.

Here's a new flash, while Asian Americans have a tremendous amount of cultural pride, most Asians Americans could care less about identity politics. Maybe there's something to that?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Here's a new flash, while Asian Americans have a tremendous amount of cultural pride, most Asians Americans could care less about identity politics. Maybe there's something to that?

Something is convincing them to vote overwhelming Democratic, and I don't think it's strong agreement with Left wing policies.

 

[texas_ex2000]

Something is convincing them to vote overwhelming Democratic, and I don't think it's strong agreement with Left wing policies.

Just a hypothesis...1st generation Asian Americans are likely the overwhelming block. That's a function of naturalization and citizenship laws. Most of their parents can't vote because they haven't yet got their citizenship.

1st generation Asian Americans are overwhelmingly under the age of 35 living along the coasts. Younger voters overwhelming vote democrat regardless of race.

 

[NJlonghorn]

Just a hypothesis...1st generation Asian Americans are likely the overwhelming block. That's a function of naturalization and citizenship laws. Most of their parents can't vote because they haven't yet got their citizenship.

1st generation Asian Americans are overwhelmingly under the age of 35 living along the coasts. Younger voters overwhelming vote democrat regardless of race.

That's an interesting hypothesis, but the evidence doesn't seem to support it. Yes, young Asian Americans lean more Democratic than older Asian Americans do, but Democrats are preferred in every age bracket.

 

[texas_ex2000]

That's an interesting hypothesis, but the evidence doesn't seem to support it. Yes, young Asian Americans lean more Democratic than older Asian Americans do, but Democrats are preferred in every age bracket.

That chart doesn't tell you the weights. E.g. how big the 18-35 group is compared with 65 and plus. It also doesn't tell you where they live. How do Filipinos and Vietnamese in Texas vote vs Japanese voters in San Francisco.

I bet if you normalize the voter blocs to the age distribution of the greater US voting demographic, the aggregate amount would be pretty close to the general US.

 

[Seattle Husker]

That can't be true because we all know that Asians are one homologated race. AND THEY ALL LOOK ALIKE. Duh.

Where did you get that from? Their social media accounts? If you look up confirmation bias in the dictionary, they'll define it as finding offended people on social media.

And I wouldn't have guessed that organizations based on identity politics would find something offensive. Here's a new flash, many Asians Americans could care less about identity politics.

You're right, there is certainly confirmation bias. I'm sure Asians also weren't upset at Huckabee's "Anchor baby" comment. No problem, right? Look at the poll numbers for Asians in Presidential elections since 1996: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/

Let's look at just the % voting for the Republican candidate:
1996: 48% (Dole)...Clinton received 44%
2000: 41% (Bush)
2004: 43% (Bush)
2008: 36% (McCain)
2012: 26% (Romney)

That looks like a significant negative trend if you're a Republican. If you're a Democrat, you're applauding Huckabee's continued efforts to hand the Asian vote to their party.

 

[texas_ex2000]

You're right, there is certainly confirmation bias. I'm sure Asians also weren't upset at Huckabee's "Anchor baby" comment. No problem, right? Look at the poll numbers for Asians in Presidential elections since 1996: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/

Let's look at just the % voting for the Republican candidate:
1996: 48% (Dole)...Clinton received 44%
2000: 41% (Bush)
2004: 43% (Bush)
2008: 36% (McCain)
2012: 26% (Romney)

That looks like a significant negative trend if you're a Republican. If you're a Democrat, you're applauding Huckabee's continued efforts to hand the Asian vote to their party.

SH, I'm doing this on my iPhone 5C in thr airport with 18% charge...so apologies for the brevity.

Your stats just confirm how 1st Generation Asian Americans are getting into voter age.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2013/04/Asian-Americans-new-full-report-04-2013.pdf

Younger Asian Americans (18 to 34 years) are especially likely to be liberal (39%). Some 17% of younger Asian Americans are conservative, and 35% are moderate. Older Asian Americans, ages 55 and older, are split more evenly across ideological groups with 30% conservative, 25% liberal and 35% moderate.

Asians are also the fastest growing ethnic minority group in the US, yet only account for 4% of all eligble voters. So the age shift of 1st generation/millenial voters is even more pronounced in polling. Your numbers are exactly what I would expect with an urban population with an influx of new younger voters over the past 20 years.

The largest Asian American metro areas are LA/NYC/SF/San Jose/Chicago/DC/Honolulu/Seattle in that order. Of course they're voting for democrats.
http://proximityone.com/asian_demographics.htm

Age and geography are much more powerful variables than race with Asian American voting trends versus say African American voting habits.