Fed/Government in Panic Mode

Democrats are going to throw in all kids of stupid **** in their bill that will get no support from the right because Pelosi will put something in there for planned parenthood.

People are going to be suffering and that pisses me off.
 
You have a very elementary understanding of money and economics.
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You make these comments but you never explain how I am wrong.

US citizens were undergoing rations of meat and gasoline during the war. How does building the tank and airplane help a worker when they can't use their wages to buy gasoline, meat, and other things they want?

I am very elementary in my thinking. All truth starts at the base layer. What was the level of wealth for the average citizen during WW2 and 2 years after? What could they purchase to improve their lives? It took the end of the war for workers' lives to improve materially.
 
If the powerful lobbyists have their way, the bailout numbers are staggering. Check it out. Conservatism now means bailouts for all.
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Musberger, Conservative in the US now means protecting and expanding on the New Deal, Great Society and QE. It means they are Progressives now.
 
Monahorns said:
You make these comments but you never explain how I am wrong.

US citizens were undergoing rations of meat and gasoline during the war. How does building the tank and airplane help a worker when they can't use their wages to buy gasoline, meat, and other things they want?

I am very elementary in my thinking. All truth starts at the base layer. What was the level of wealth for the average citizen during WW2 and 2 years after? What could they purchase to improve their lives? It took the end of the war for workers' lives to improve materially.
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Did their money go away, my great grand parents bought war bonds and did very well with them. What items were rationed during WWII? I did a quick search of the goods that were rationed during WWII and here is what I found.

"Typewriters, gasoline, bicycles, footwear, silk, nylon, fuel oil, stoves, meat, lard, shortening and oils, cheese, butter, margarine, processed foods (canned, bottled, and frozen), dried fruits, canned milk, firewood and coal, jams, jellies and fruit butter were rationed by November 1943."

Now consider this, you are looking at this through the eyes of a modern American who spends money as fast as they get it.

That generation had a completely different mindset. They saved every penny they could. That was the generation of savers, they had just come out of the Great Depression and they were still weary of banks ability protect their money. They trusted bonds and especially war bonds. That generation bought a car and that was their car for the next 20 years. They bought a house and lived there til they died. Other than that, they saved and saved and saved. This is why many normal Americans from that generation retired millionaires.
 
You just said that people accepted the hardship. I never said they didn't. I said the economy wasn't out of the depression until the soldiers came home. Your response supports that as well.

People who have been through a depression and experienced poverty have a higher demand for money so that they will be prepared for the future.
 
The biggest monetary experiment in human history has been ongoing for a decade now and the dopes who started this game have no idea what they are doing, and they didn't know what they were doing when they started, it was all an experiment. They're looking for levers to pull and buttons to push now because they have f-ed up the money. Politicians cannot be trusted with our money.
 
Driver 8 said:
Politicians cannot be trusted with our money.
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Politicians cannot be trusted with anything, and are never to be believed. They are only lying twice - when their lips are moving and when their lips aren't moving, they are thinking of the next lie about to come out of their mouth.
 
Driver 8 said:
The biggest monetary experiment in human history has been ongoing for a decade now and the dopes who started this game have no idea what they are doing, and they didn't know what they were doing when they started, it was all an experiment. They're looking for levers to pull and buttons to push now because they have f-ed up the money. Politicians cannot be trusted with our money.
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It is hard to argue that politicians haven't run up unnecessary deficits and debt in order to buy votes. I seriously doubt that having to solve math problems so a computer in who-knows-where can shite out a bitcoin would be better at stemming the economic crisis.
 
Monahorns said:
People who have been through a depression and experienced poverty have a higher demand for money so that they will be prepared for the future.
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Not sure I agree with the word ‘demand’ but they certainly have a higher appreciation of money AND the work necessary to earn it.
 
Monahorns said:
You just said that people accepted the hardship. I never said they didn't. I said the economy wasn't out of the depression until the soldiers came home. Your response supports that as well.

People who have been through a depression and experienced poverty have a higher demand for money so that they will be prepared for the future.
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I'm sorry, was this directed at me? I don't think I said they accepted the hardship, however, they were a hard people and the great depression was like a refining fire, it made them stronger.

I disagree with the statement above, many people who live in poverty especially in this country have no idea how good they have it. There is a reason why so many impoverished people in this country are morbidly obese. No other country in the world has obese poor people.

The demand for money is an attitude created by media who constantly bombards us with the idea to be happy we need to drive this car or live in that house. we are the most wasteful people in the world. We move on average every 5 years, we buy a new car on average every 3 years. You can't get ahead when you live like that. Then we cry when there is a downturn in the economy, what are we going to do. How about save you money, quit moving and keep your perfectly good car. BTW, that is not me, that is 100% Dave Ramsey.

Me being in the Real Estate industry, I constantly hear these words, "this is our starter house". What they should be saying is this is the home we are going to die in. The whole reason my parents have the money they have is because they paid off their house in 15 years and then invested their money for the next 25 years, they pulled a little here and there for repairs, but for the most part they just wanted a little nest egg to help with their retirement, now they have an annual retirement of about 106K a year. What do they do with it? Absolutely nothing, they have created college funds for my kids, and my dad is always looking for new ways to invest it.
 
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Austin_Bill said:
I'm sorry, was this directed at me? I don't think I said they accepted the hardship, however, they were a hard people and the great depression was like a refining fire, it made them stronger.

I disagree with the statement above, many people who live in poverty especially in this country have no idea how good they have it. There is a reason why so many impoverished people in this country are morbidly obese. No other country in the world has obese poor people.

The demand for money is an attitude created by media who constantly bombards us with the idea to be happy we need to drive this car or live in that house. we are the most wasteful people in the world. We move on average every 5 years, we buy a new car on average every 3 years. You can't get ahead when you live like that. Then we cry when there is a downturn in the economy, what are we going to do. How about save you money, quit moving and keep your perfectly good car. BTW, that is not me, that is 100% Dave Ramsey.

Me being in the Real Estate industry, I constantly hear these words, "this is our starter house". What they should be saying is this is the home we are going to die in. The whole reason my parents have the money they have is because they paid off their house in 15 years and then invested their money for the next 25 years, they pulled a little here and there for repairs, but for the most part they just wanted a little nest egg to help with their retirement, now they have an annual retirement of about 106K a year. What do they do with it? Absolutely nothing, they have created college funds for my kids, and my dad is always looking for new ways to invest it.
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My Grandfather and mother were this way. In my generation we have a lot more corruption in government, private equity, large corporations not having employee loyalty. I lost millions due 100% to corruption in 2017-18. I’ll be working the rest of my life to make up for that. But I can do it, if government politicians don’t destroy our economy. We didn’t have these headwinds in the 50’s -70’s! But at the same time we have more opportunities than in those years.

Bit Coin rose 12% the last 24 hours.
 
Actually I’m just pissed off about corruption and how it permeates as much as it does. My company is back up from 2018. But Bit Coin could help a lot of us regain our stock market losses. I bought some today, not enough. But I’m still not convinced either. We’ll see how it goes.
 
AC said:
But I can do it, if government politicians don’t destroy our economy.
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AC said:
Actually I’m just pissed off about corruption and how it permeates as much as it does.
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It's easy to blame politicians, but always remember that they're doing our bidding. They racked up trillions in debt because we want a government that we aren't willing to pay for. They impose economic hardship, because we want them to do things that impose economic hardship. They bailout their buddies with our money (or more accurately our grandkids' inflated money), because we don't want to deal with the hassle of those buddies failing (lost jobs, tanked markets, etc.). Politicians are an easy target, but this is ultimately on us.
 
AC said:
Actually I’m just pissed off about corruption and how it permeates as much as it does. My company is back up from 2018. But Bit Coin could help a lot of us regain our stock market losses. I bought some today, not enough. But I’m still not convinced either. We’ll see how it goes.
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I honestly hope it works out for you.
 
The biggest monetary experiment in human history has been ongoing for a decade now and the dopes who started this game have no idea what they are doing, and they didn't know what they were doing when they started, it was all an experiment. They're looking for levers to pull and buttons to push now because they have f-ed up the money. Politicians cannot be trusted with our money.
Click to expand...

Driver 8, none of us know how all this will turn out either. This 10 year experiment now means that all the traditional means to respond to economic crisis don't exist. We have been acting like there was a crisis for 10 years. There is no where else to go. Now they are talking about printing another $1T or $2T on top of all that. The $ is going to suffer.
 
It is hard to argue that politicians haven't run up unnecessary deficits and debt in order to buy votes. I seriously doubt that having to solve math problems so a computer in who-knows-where can shite out a bitcoin would be better at stemming the economic crisis.
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iatrogenic, it takes the ability away from government for printing money. It keeps money supply stable which means money value stable.
 
I’m more frustrated at private equity than big, over zealous government. If my Industry had capitalised more organically the last 30 years O&G wouldn’t be so boom bust and more companies could survive low oil prices without drastic belt tightening measures. No one wants to see Schlumberger lay off 10,000 plus, but their belt tightening capex measures cost small business hundreds of thousands as well. Too many unsuspecting, naive business owners give up equity to vulcher capitalists (private equity) and get screwed. Angel investors are the same scenario! Maybe even worse. I’ll invest in your company and promise you X, then when I have my shares you end up with Y. Y is 1/8 of X! Anyway, I’m closer to debt free now and if Covid 19 turns around by May I think I can salvage the year but I’m running out of time. Government aligns with big business, private equity let’s big business grow faster through acquisition, private equity begates angel investors. Too many entrepreneurs eat the forbidden fruit! I’m one of them. Good news is I can grow faster and more profitably without the forbidden fruit!
 
Monahorns said:
Driver 8, none of us know how all this will turn out either. This 10 year experiment now means that all the traditional means to respond to economic crisis don't exist. We have been acting like there was a crisis for 10 years. There is no where else to go. Now they are talking about printing another $1T or $2T on top of all that. The $ is going to suffer.
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I'm risk adverse and not a fan of debt, but I know that it can be helpful. I do believe the U.S.A. is too leveraged with $23 trillion in debt, annual revenues of a little over $3 trillion. None of the $3 trillion is used to repay the debt.

When will the investors lose confidence and stop buying bonds and notes? How would doing so affect the investors' economies? When will hyperinflation kick in? How would you analyze the situation and adjust accordingly? Would buying gold or other hard assets actually protect you not just from inflation but in a real economic collapse?
 
I’ve done decent with Gold and Silver. It’s very speculative. My thought is Bit Coin is a better alternative than Gold. In 20 years the Global economy may move away from paper money, perhaps sooner. The current system of paper money is NOT sustainable! We all need to learn more about currencies. Bit Coin is a lot more stable than many think. It cannot be manipulated by a Government, it cannot be printed. Supply demand governs the block chain. The block chain keeps Bit Coin investors safe from online scams. It is going to become more mainstream as deficits spin out of control.
 
Watchout for loopholes.
Nancy Pelosi spoke via phone with Jim Carmer and said there's "real optimism that we could get something done" as she explained that she and Mnuchin had agreed to include the House language adding oversight to $500 billion in aide to corporations to ensure that the money won't be spent on stock buybacks and executive comp.
Pelosi also said she had been willing to compromise by granting immunity to companies making masks and other equipment.
​
Even I can see the loophole. A corporation could decide to start making a few masks and then be exempt from the rule.
 
nashhorn said:
???? Why even immune them?
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Keep in mind Mnuchin’s background. He’s 100% Wall Street/corporate agent. He makes the recommendations and it’s up to Congress to screen and make adjustments to protect the people they ostensibly represent before something passes. Good luck with that.
 
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