Dumb Political Correctness

[mb227]

But this behavior is so dishonest. Do they not care that over half the country sees them as liars?

They will only care if it begins to impact the bottom line...this is no different than the NFL not intervening on the politarding until it had a demonstrable effect on ratings (and, consequently, MONEY).

 

[Joe Fan]

They will only care if it begins to impact the bottom line...this is no different than the NFL not intervening on the politarding until it had a demonstrable effect on ratings (and, consequently, MONEY).

That's another pet peeve of mine. How can billionaires be so dumb?
NFL owners had to first be hit in the head with a club before they understood what was happening with this crapping on the flag stuff.
They did not get to this point in life by being idiots (Mark Davis excepted, as always)

 

[Joe Fan]

Just another day with Team Hillary

 

[Joe Fan]

2013 hilarity

 

[Statalyzer]

They did not get to this point in life by being idiots

They didn't necessarily get to it by being geniuses either.

But never forget Jonathan Schwartz's "Iron Law of Institutions": The people who control institutions care first and foremost about their power within the institution rather than the power of the institution itself.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[OUBubba]

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/cord-cutting-2017-estimates-cancel-cable-satellite-tv-1202556594/

Again, my friends that are the most vocal on social media about the NFL protests would not know which conference many teams were in. Some couldn't even find an NFL game on TV if you pressed them. They're not NFL watchers.

Cable cutting is a much bigger deal in the statistics on this and on ESPN. And, all that said, to get up in arms about someone kneeling as an act of "protest" is very snowflaky. This false narrative that it disrespects the military is laughable. My favorite tweet this week said [paraphrased]: "To spend $240k of taxpayer $ to go get offended is akin to watching gay porn to remind yourself that you don't like gay porn"

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[mchammer]

Goodness

Bad language warning

Spoiler

Fake account

 

[Joe Fan]

......all that said, to get up in arms about someone kneeling as an act of "protest" is very snowflaky. This false narrative that it disrespects the military is laughable. ...."

The actual legal issue here is not the one we see argued over in social media or even over the airwaves. Is "speech" involved? Yes. Is "Constitutionally protected" speech involved? No. So, all the folks you read or hear saying it is the latter are wrong. The 1st Amendment has no application here. The people who say it does are either uneducated or, worse, they already know this but also know their audience is dumb so they make the claim anyway. Which is worse? You can decide that.

What is involved are employees' duties and rights while on the job. There is a large body of law called "Employer-Employee" that has already sorted this kind of stuff out. In short, employers may control the speech of their employees, generally. Employees may be legally fired for breaching an employers dictates on speech while on the job.

So, can pro football players protest? Of course they can. The have the same rights as anyone else. But the issue here is - can they do it while on the job, in uniform, at the workplace? The answer is no, not if the employers says they can't. Or, perhaps more pragmatically, can they be penalized, even fired/cut for violating their employers' rules? The answer again is of course they can. Attempting to wrap themselves in the Constitution (an ironic move given that the protesters hate it and what it stands for) will not protect them.

The examples are easy to come by. Can an order taker at McDonalds cuss out customers? No (well they can, I guess, but they can be legally fired for it). Can Home Depot workers wear "F*ck Home Depot" t-shirts on the job? Again, no. Can Walmart greeters burn effigies of Hillary in front of the store? It's a form of speech, right? The law says it is indeed speech but the law also says they can be fired for it. On top of that, employment in most states is "at will." Which means employees can be fired for almost any reason.

Is the NFL different? The NFL does have a CBA and standard player contract. But as far as I recall, neither carve an exception for speech. Indeed, we have already seen the league and Commissioner's Office establish precedent in this area by cracking down on many different forms of player speech. Jim MacMahon's headband. Messages written on shoes. Even a patch to honor 9-11 was prohibited. Kneeling for the anthem/flag before an NFL game is no different.

 

[Joe Fan]

Fake account

Thanks, clearly I didnt look close enough
But i did laugh

 

[OUBubba]

The actual legal issue here is not the one we see argued over in social media or even over the airwaves. Is "speech" involved? Yes. Is "Constitutionally protected" speech involved? No. So, all the folks you read or hear saying it is the latter are wrong. The 1st Amendment has no application here. The people who say it does are either uneducated or, worse, they already know this but also know their audience is dumb so they make the claim anyway. Which is worse? You can decide that.

What is involved are employees' duties and rights while on the job. There is a large body of law called "Employer-Employee" that has already sorted this kind of stuff out. In short, employers may control the speech of their employees, generally. Employees may be legally fired for breaching an employers dictates on speech while on the job.

So, can pro football players protest? Of course they can. The have the same rights as anyone else. But the issue here is - can they do it while on the job, in uniform, at the workplace? The answer is no, not if the employers says they can't. Or, perhaps more pragmatically, can they be penalized, even fired/cut for violating their employers' rules? The answer again is of course they can. Attempting to wrap themselves in the Constitution (an ironic move given that the protesters hate it and what it stands for) will not protect them.

The examples are easy to come by. Can an order taker at McDonalds cuss out customers? No (well they can, I guess, but they can be legally fired for it). Can Home Depot workers wear "F*ck Home Depot" t-shirts on the job? Again, no. Can Walmart greeters burn effigies of Hillary in front of the store? It's a form of speech, right? The law says it is indeed speech but the law also says they can be fired for it. On top of that, employment in most states is "at will." Which means employees can be fired for almost any reason.

Is the NFL different? The NFL does have a CBA and standard player contract. But as far as I recall, neither carve an exception for speech. Indeed, we have already seen the league and Commissioner's Office establish precedent in this area by cracking down on many different forms of player speech. Jim MacMahon's headband. Messages written on shoes. Even a patch to honor 9-11 was prohibited. Kneeling for the anthem/flag before an NFL game is no different.

This this is akin to Kim Davis in Kentucky who didn't perform her job and was lauded by conservatives?

 

[Mr. Deez]

This this is akin to Kim Davis in Kentucky who didn't perform her job and was lauded by conservatives?

It isn't. Kim Davis was a government employee, which means her First Amendment rights were implicated. Note - this does not mean Davis shouldn't have lost her job. Refusal to perform your duties especially after being ordered to by a court is cause to fire a government employee.

 

[OUBubba]

It isn't. Kim Davis was a government employee, which means her First Amendment rights were implicated. Note - this does not mean Davis shouldn't have lost her job. Refusal to perform your duties especially after being ordered to by a court is cause to fire a government employee.

How is her inaction a First Amendment issue?

Also, you guys have been calling the left snowflakes for years. I find that ironic.

 

[Mr. Deez]

How is her inaction a First Amendment issue?

It's an issue because a government actor is compelling her to act against her religious beliefs, or more precisely, they're making such acts a condition of her employment. The key factor here is the presence of a government actor, which isn't present with the NFL players.

But like I said, just because the First Amendment is implicated doesn't mean she wins or should win. Her job was to issue marriage licenses in accordance with the laws of her state and the United States. If she can't or won't do that, then she should lose her job.

Also, you guys have been calling the left snowflakes for years. I find that ironic.

What have I said in this discussion that's "snowflaky" or that suggests "snowflakery?"

 

[OUBubba]

It's an issue because a government actor is compelling her to act against her religious beliefs, or more precisely, they're making such acts a condition of her employment. The key factor here is the presence of a government actor, which isn't present with the NFL players.

But like I said, just because the First Amendment is implicated doesn't mean she wins or should win. Her job was to issue marriage licenses in accordance with the laws of her state and the United States. If she can't or won't do that, then she should lose her job.



What have I said in this discussion that's "snowflaky" or that suggests "snowflakery?"

Good clarification. I guess I meant the "royal you".

The next football player that is disciplined or fired for quietly expressing their beliefs through inaction will be the first. I assume that were the reason a religious one such as being a J. Witness it would be different?

 

[Seattle Husker]

Good clarification. I guess I meant the "royal you".

The next football player that is disciplined or fired for quietly expressing their beliefs through inaction will be the first. I assume that were the reason a religious one such as being a J. Witness it would be different?

Just to be clear, the current "kneelers" haven't violated any employee rules of the NFL so far. Goodell has been clear about that going back to when Kaepernick started this all. The celebration by the right, like many things (i.e. Obamacare repeal) may be premature as the NFL Owners have simply put this as an agenda item for the Owners meeting. Remember, they are dealing with the NFLPA. The could request the players to stand and have the NFLPA say "go **** yourself". It's in all their best interests to resolve this amicably. Try telling Eric Reid or Michael Bennett that they MUST stand though. The NFL risks a mutiny from their players.

 

[Joe Fan]

This this is akin to Kim Davis in Kentucky who didn't perform her job and was lauded by conservatives?

I have noticed some jibba jabba from the NFLPA that some elusive, unnamed federal employment law might be invoked against Jerry Jones if he follows through with his threats. I do not think the PA knows what it is talking about. And, if I were Jones or Bob McNair, I would actually welcome it. If the NFLPA is dumb enough to stand on the side of flag-haters, I would not get in their way.

Can you imagine getting this litigation in front of a Texas jury?
One of my first exhibits would be of Colin Kaepernick wiping his butt with the US flag. I would make a blowup of that picture, put it on an 3-legged stand and then intentionally leave it visible to the jury the entire trial. Let them look at it all day long every day.

Then I would call Kaepernick as a witness. It would be so much fun to have him in the box, under oath. I would do this trial for free if it meant this. Use his own words to show the jury who and what he really is, without his Svengali girlfriend there to think for him. Then I would call some of the other genius-kneelers and let them tell the jury how dinosaurs never existed and explain their theory on why the world cannot be round.

It would be a blast.

 

[OUBubba]

I have noticed some jibba jabba from the NFLPA that some elusive, unnamed federal employment law might be invoked against Jerry Jones if he follows through with his threats. I do not think the PA knows what it is talking about. And, if I were Jones or Bob McNair, I would actually welcome it. If the NFLPA is dumb enough to stand on the side of flag-haters, I would not get in their way.

Can you imagine getting this litigation in front of a Texas jury?
One of my first exhibits would be of Colin Kaepernick wiping his butt with the US flag. I would make a blowup of that picture, put it on an 3-legged stand and then intentionally leave it visible to the jury the entire trial. Let them look at it all day long every day.

Then I would call Kaepernick as a witness. It would be so much fun to have him in the box, under oath. I would do this trial for free if it meant this. Use his own words to show the jury who and what he really is, without his Svengali girlfriend there to think for him. Then I would call some of the other genius-kneelers and let them tell the jury how dinosaurs never existed and explain their theory on why the world cannot be round.

It would be a blast.

You're so divisive it's like you're a Russian hacker stationed in Macedonia.

 

[mb227]

The NFL risks a mutiny from their players.

Owners would welcome the overpaid entitletards going out...then the payroll gets slashed since, if they walk out, they forfeit their pay.

There is no shortage of players willing to play for FAR less than the current prima donna crop...it isn't as though teams have not been through fielding teams of 'scabs.' And the fans still turned out...in fact, it would not surprise me to see MORE fans turnout for players that actually wanted to PLAY and not politard.

 

[Joe Fan]

You're so divisive ....

lol. And you are the Lindsey Lohan on this board. Just like her, your first instinct is almost always wrong. Honest question - dont you get tired of that?

As to this specific post, I litigated for years. And, yes, I would jump at the chance to crush the NFLPA in a trial. But I dont see how that is reasonable grounds for you to be offended or why you even care about that.

 

[OUBubba]

lol. And you are the Lindsey Lohan on this board. Just like her, your first instinct is almost always wrong. Honest question - dont you get tired of that?

As to this specific post, I litigated for years. And, yes, I would jump at the chance to crush the NFLPA in a trial. But I dont see how that is reasonable grounds for you to be offended or why you even care about that.

I'm not offended. It just seems like half of the things you post are the kind of things coming out of Macedonia to stir up ****.

You're more of a Tara Reid? What was it, Taracide?

 

[Seattle Husker]

Owners would welcome the overpaid entitletards going out...then the payroll gets slashed since, if they walk out, they forfeit their pay.

There is no shortage of players willing to play for FAR less than the current prima donna crop...it isn't as though teams have not been through fielding teams of 'scabs.' And the fans still turned out...in fact, it would not surprise me to see MORE fans turnout for players that actually wanted to PLAY and not politard.

No professional sports league welcomes a player walkout unless they are losing money in the current collective bargaining agreement. These owners are making money hands over fists even with these "overpaid entitletards" getting paid.

There is a shortage of qualified players to play in the NFL. As multiple strikes and and alternative leagues have shown, American sports fans have an affinity for their superstars.

 

[Joe Fan]

top one from 2010
If you want a get out of jail free card from feminists, be a well known Dem and vocal abortion advocate. Then you can basically treat women however you want.

 

[Joe Fan]

I'm not offended.

Your actions betray your words

It just seems like half of the things you post are the kind of things coming out of Macedonia to stir up ****....

Why would Macedonia care about 'American football?'

 

[Seattle Husker]

Your actions betray your words



Why would Macedonia care about 'American football?'

Not sure about Macedonia but the Russians appear to care about all of your pet issues.

Here are their "Top Topics" from Twitter in the last 48hrs. Sounds like you and the Russians agree on a lot or is this simply more "wind at your sails"?

 

[Joe Fan]

Hillary knew about Harvey (she even lived next door to him for awhile)
Hillary knew about Bill
Hillary knew about Anthony (Weiner)

Yet she did nothing to help these women or protect future women from them
In Bill's case, she even went after the female victims herself in order to protect her own political brand
And then she branded herself in her campaign as "A Champion of Women"
Unreal. These people have no shame.

One more question -- why in the world would Michelle Obama send her teenage daughter to work beside Weinstein? How do you defenders of all things liberal explain this?

 

[Garmel]

Not sure about Macedonia but the Russians appear to care about all of your pet issues.

Here are their "Top Topics" from Twitter in the last 48hrs. Sounds like you and the Russians agree on a lot or is this simply more "wind at your sails"?

Hamilton68 uses a secret list of 600 accounts. So we just have to take their word. I noticed that you don't need any proof of something being legit as long as it pushes something you agree with.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

Just to be clear, the current "kneelers" haven't violated any employee rules of the NFL so far. Goodell has been clear about that going back to when Kaepernick started this all. The celebration by the right, like many things (i.e. Obamacare repeal) may be premature as the NFL Owners have simply put this as an agenda item for the Owners meeting. Remember, they are dealing with the NFLPA. The could request the players to stand and have the NFLPA say "go **** yourself". It's in all their best interests to resolve this amicably. Try telling Eric Reid or Michael Bennett that they MUST stand though. The NFL risks a mutiny from their players.

And there are 10,000 other players that would take their place tomorrow. Who cares if the current crop leaves?

 

[Seattle Husker]

And there are 10,000 other players that would take their place tomorrow. Who cares if the current crop leaves?

The owners, the networks paying $$ to the owners, the fans who attend the games, need I go on? I get it, a certain segment of society has now chosen to forsake football because our POTUS purposely deceived his supporters into thinking the players were "disrespecting the flag". Heck, he spent $250k of taxpayers money on a political stunt to have the VP show up to a game then walk out to reinforce the point.

I don't think the owners are willing to piss away billions of wealth to appease some snowflakes being prodded by the POTUS and Russian influence campaigns.

As most businessmen would do, they are trying to find a way out of this conundrum that can save face for themselves and without starting an employee revolt.