Dumb Political Correctness

horninchicago said:
That's fair. Because I said so.

But seriously, skill and qualifications will trump all at the end of the day. I don't work there, we'll see how it goes for them, but they won't crew their planes with unqualified pilots.
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I don't think they'll crew them with unqualified pilots. I don't think they'll find some black dude on the corner and say, "hey man, we need a black guy flying planes. We'll pay you." That isn't how affirmative action programs like this work. What they'll do is allow race, ethnicity, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, etc. to become enough of a factor that people who are more qualified but the wrong color, gender, etc. are passed over (as they are in academic admissions). So you'll still get trained pilots. They just won't be the best and most qualified pilots that United can hire - not because minorities can't make exceptional pilots. They certainly can, and plenty of them are. However, those who can don't need an affirmative action program. The ones who do are going to almost necessarily be subpar compared to some of the people not being hired.

Will it make a difference? Hopefully not, but when we're talking about an aircraft with hundreds of people onboard who face almost certain death if things go wrong, you'd think that merit and qualifications would basically drive everything.
 
This
" What they'll do is allow race, ethnicity, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, etc. to become enough of a factor that people who are more qualified but the wrong color, gender, etc. are passed over (as they are in academic admissions). So you'll still get trained pilots. They just won't be the best and most qualified pilots that United can hire -
 
Mr. Deez said:
I don't think they'll crew them with unqualified pilots. I don't think they'll find some black dude on the corner and say, "hey man, we need a black guy flying planes. We'll pay you." That isn't how affirmative action programs like this work. What they'll do is allow race, ethnicity, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, etc. to become enough of a factor that people who are more qualified but the wrong color, gender, etc. are passed over (as they are in academic admissions). So you'll still get trained pilots. They just won't be the best and most qualified pilots that United can hire - not because minorities can't make exceptional pilots. They certainly can, and plenty of them are. However, those who can don't need an affirmative action program. The ones who do are going to almost necessarily be subpar compared to some of the people not being hired.

Will it make a difference? Hopefully not, but when we're talking about an aircraft with hundreds of people onboard who face almost certain death if things go wrong, you'd think that merit and qualifications would basically drive everything.
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I don't disagree. But, I'm just saying, if y'all don't want to fly United, don't do it because you fear it won't be safe.

Fly Frontier instead.

:coolnana:
 
horninchicago said:
I don't disagree. But, I'm just saying, if y'all don't want to fly United, don't do it because you fear it won't be safe.

Fly Frontier instead.

:coolnana:
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That is true, but a few things to consider. First, if we're following the letter of the law, what they're doing is illegal. Second, the Left could make the same argument about pretty much any affirmative action program.

Finally, watching you on this is kinda amusing. Usually you're pretty hostile to wokeness, cultural liberalism, and racial self-flagellation that goes with them. But once we're in the realm of pilots, you get pretty indifferent borderline "cuckish") in tone and substance. The industry must be balls-deep. Lol.
 
Mr. Deez said:
That is true, but a few things to consider. First, if we're following the letter of the law, what they're doing is illegal. Second, the Left could make the same argument about pretty much any affirmative action program.

Finally, watching you on this is kinda amusing. Usually you're pretty hostile to wokeness, cultural liberalism, and racial self-flagellation that goes with them. But once we're in the realm of pilots, you get pretty indifferent borderline "cuckish") in tone and substance. The industry must be balls-deep. Lol.
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Piloting is probably the last area that hasn’t been infected by race/sex over merit. I suspect when HIC sees some crazy decisions being made based on race/sex, he will be more critical. Be patient, it will come.
 
Mr. Deez said:
That is true, but a few things to consider. First, if we're following the letter of the law, what they're doing is illegal. Second, the Left could make the same argument about pretty much any affirmative action program.

Finally, watching you on this is kinda amusing. Usually you're pretty hostile to wokeness, cultural liberalism, and racial self-flagellation that goes with them. But once we're in the realm of pilots, you get pretty indifferent borderline "cuckish") in tone and substance. The industry must be balls-deep. Lol.
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No, let me re-clarify. I think it is stupid as hell and have stated so on another forum. I'm just saying it won't be unsafe.
 
Mr. Deez said:
That is true, but a few things to consider. First, if we're following the letter of the law, what they're doing is illegal. Second, the Left could make the same argument about pretty much any affirmative action program.

Finally, watching you on this is kinda amusing. Usually you're pretty hostile to wokeness, cultural liberalism, and racial self-flagellation that goes with them. But once we're in the realm of pilots, you get pretty indifferent borderline "cuckish") in tone and substance. The industry must be balls-deep. Lol.
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HIC works for a smaller airline. They can’t afford wokeness. What I have seen in the chemical industry is that high merit folks who are pushed out at top tier companies due to wokeness end up at 2nd tier companies. It is a way for 2nd tier companies to get top tier talent.
 
horninchicago said:
No, let me re-clarify. I think it is stupid as hell and have stated so on another forum. I'm just saying it won't be unsafe.
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On the whole, you are correct. But what about extraordinary situations (that is not the blame of the pilot) that requires extraordinary flying skills? This is where you will see the difference but it may only be a once in 5 year event.
 
mchammer said:
HIC works for a smaller airline. They can’t afford wokeness. What I have seen in the chemical industry is that high merit folks who are pushed out at top tier companies due to wokeness end up at 2nd tier companies. It is a way for 2nd tier companies to get top tier talent.
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Small but growing. Announced several new routes in the last week, including some added routes out of DF and W.

Hell, don't put wokrness past us. However, we have a "person of color" system Chief Pilot, female base Chief Pilot, and women in various important capacities.
 
mchammer said:
On the whole, you are correct. But what about extraordinary situations (that is not the blame of the pilot) that requires extraordinarily flying skills? This is where you will see the difference but it may only be a once in 5 year event.
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I just don't see safety being affected. Stupid wokrness is affected. That's it. IMHO.
 
horninchicago said:
Explain why it is illegal, please.
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The Civil Rights Act makes it illegal to fire, refuse to hire, or take any adverse employment action on the basis of race. If the less qualified minority is hired over the more qualified white guy, an adverse employment action has been taken against him on the basis of race.
 
Mr. Deez said:
The Civil Rights Act makes it illegal to fire, refuse to hire, or take any adverse employment action on the basis of race. If the less qualified minority is hired over the more qualified white guy, an adverse employment action has been taken against him on the basis of race.
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Hard to prove, right?
 
horninchicago said:
No, let me re-clarify. I think it is stupid as hell and have stated so on another forum. I'm just saying it won't be unsafe.
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Your did condemn it, but it feels very obligatory - sorta like when the Left "doesn't condone the violence" of BLM. Your tone is very subdued by your standards. Lol.

And FWIW, defenders of affirmative action always say the final product and standards won't be compromised. Honestly, I don't see how they couldn't be. Remember, a minority pilot who is qualified under normal competition doesn't need an affirmative action program.

And just to be clear in case you wonder about my own consistency, law firms (especially big ones) do this **** too. It's just as wrong and just as illegal. I have no qualms at all about judging them for it.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Your did condemn it, but it feels very obligatory - sorta like when the Left "doesn't condone the violence" of BLM. Your tone is very subdued by your standards. Lol.

And FWIW, defenders of affirmative action always say the final product and standards won't be compromised. Honestly, I don't see how they couldn't be. Remember, a minority pilot who is qualified under normal competition doesn't need an affirmative action program.

And just to be clear in case you wonder about my own consistency, law firms (especially big ones) do this **** too. It's just as wrong and just as illegal. I have no qualms at all about judging them for it.
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Well, I am on threat of perma ban, so I am trying to be nicer.
 
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