Don't resist, run or disobey

[theiioftx]

In the latest bad reporting about police violence in McKinney, we have yet another instance of bad behavior by citizens leading to new outcries of police abuse. Put simply, follow the law, don't resist, don't run and obey officer's commands.

In the latest example,

• Twitter party invites way more people than allowed by community pool.
• Literally hundreds of unauthorized guests show up.
• Party includes DJ blasting vulgar lyrics to actual dues paying homeowners
• Party guests fighting, drinking and smoking weed
• Homeowner in fight with "innocent" 15 year old 20 minutes prior to police arriving
• Males charge at officer as he attempts to detain resisting 15 year old. Officer pulls weapon, but does not fire as they run.
• Officer suspended, receives death threats and neighborhood vandalized
• Protesters highlighted as noble in their cause
• Immediate cries of racism and all news organizations flame the fire.

The United States is beyond a tipping point. When the police have no authority or support, cities will fall into anarchy and violence. Please correct me where I am wrong.

 

[zork]

It has been an interesting time in race relations during the past few years to be sure. The tape showed the two police officers behind the guy who pulled his gun apparently trying to get him to chill. To me, at minimum, it is clear I would not want to be a police officer right now.

Avoiding being a random victim of circumstance is much higher on my radar than it has ever been before.

There is rage out there but it is not everywhere I hope. We skipped the state fair of Texas this past year because of the Ebola BS. Not sure if that was too reactionary but maybe it was due to the disease after the fact, weeks/months later, it not spreading. How do you know though?

Relax but keep your head on a swivel and paying attention to your surroundings when out in public. It would be nice if the Police would be as professional as they can be so this **** will simmer. Not sure it will simmer.

 

[chango]

The police chief didn't see it the way you did.

McKinney's police chief announced Casebolt's firing Tuesday and called Casebolt's actions "indefensible."

"Our policies, our training, our practice, do not support his actions," Police Chief Greg Conley said. "He came into the call out of control, and as the video shows, was out of control during the incident."

 

[theiioftx]

The chief took the easy way out, hence why I said "no authority or support." Easy to say after the fact that he over-reacted and I believe he could have learned from the situation. Nobody was hurt. The girl on the ground was just in a hair pulling fight, so I am sure she will survive the police officer taking her to the ground and holding her down with his knee.

The Chief knows he will be forced out by Al Sharpton if he doesn't succomb to the idiocy.

Last night on CNN, the party organizer, who holds her self out as a professional party organizer, was not even questioned on why she posted an invite to a 2 guest per member on Twitter with a DJ and no security. It was clearly McKinney police fault. They did admit that hundreds showed up, were climbing the fence and fighting.

On Progressive Radio yesterday, one caller advocated those "children" deserved to be at the pool just as much as the member-owners. We obviously need to make swimming pools a federal right. Dems take note.

 

[Mr. Deez]

There's a lot of stupidity to go around. First, the kids are stupid for acting like a bunch of crazy people. What's wrong with just going swimming, playing music at a volume that respects the local community, and having a good time? And even if you get caught up in the moment, what's wrong with turning your ****** music down when the neighbors ask you to? I've heard mixed things about whether or not the kids were trespassers (or if so, how many were), so I'll reserve judgment on that. There's enough stupidity on their end that we don't really need to even raise that issue.

Second, the organizer was ******* CRAZY to put together such a party. A bunch of booze-ridden teens at an overcrowded pool party got loud and rowdy? What a shock! She should be getting a lot more flack than she's getting.

Third, what dumbass parent lets their kid go to this kind of party? I wouldn't let my kid anywhere near something like this.

Fourth, why did the people living in the neighborhood get in fights with the "guests?" If the dumbass kids were getting loud, ask them to keep it down. If they don't do it or if they get belligerent, don't lower yourself to their level by arguing with them or worse, getting physical. That can't end well. Just walk the hell away, and call the cops.

Fifth, the cop at issue was an idiot, and he was a lone idiot. His 11 coworkers did fine, which makes him look worse. Should these kids have respected and obeyed the authority figures? Of course, and yes these parents who teach their children not to obey police officers are horrifically bad people. However, as the professional and as the adult, the cop's job is to diffuse the situation, not make it worse.

From what I could see in the video, the girl was walking away. She was acting like a ***** and saying rude things, but she was moving away from the scene as instructed. What it looked like to me is that she said something that pissed him off, and he came after her, and the situation spiraled out of control from there. Why do that? Just let the smack-talking skank walk off.

A lot of people are focusing on the gun getting drawn, and that looked bad and unprofessional, especially since the guys were backing away when he did that. However, I don't really second guess him as much for that. By the time he pulled the gun, **** was already out of control. On a side note, I give the cop's colleagues very high marks for diffusing things once the gun was drawn. That could have gotten incredibly ugly in a big hurry.

Yes, the City of McKinney is going to get sued by the black girl in the bikini, and yes, they're going to pay out money on this one. It doesn't look like she got hurt, but the image of some big white adult sitting on a black, bikini-clad teenage girl's back for several minutes just doesn't look right. That's going to make this more expensive to resolve than it otherwise would be.

The Chief knows he will be forced out by Al Sharpton if he doesn't succomb to the idiocy.

This isn't Baltimore or even Ferguson. It's McKinney. It is somewhat of a poor man's Plano, but it's still pretty well off and pretty white. Nobody of importance there gives two squirts of piss what Al Sharpton thinks.

 

[huisache]

The concept of self discipline is unknown to these trashy kids. Back in the day I knew to follow the cops' instructions and always had my hands on the car and legs spread and talked politely when questioned. I saw friends who acted differently get the krapp knocked out of them. These kids get no lessons from their parents other than that they are entitled to anything they want any time they want it.

Firing the cop was a good move regardless of what else happens. What he was doing was way out of bounds.

The stress on cops is bad in the best circumstances but right now is a bad time. Look for a lot of early retirements and cops looking for other lines of work.

 

[theiioftx]

The cop was not fired. He resigned apparently after no support from his chief and legal advice to resign to save his pension.

As Deez states, how do you second guess an officer drawing his weapon? He did not aim the weapon, but took it out after two males (one who was white) charged him. If I am a cop, I find new work immediately. Sooner or later, you will be in a situation where drawing your weapon is necessary. In today's environment, it appears you draw and face discipline or do not draw and face death. You are right, expect lots of resignations and retirements.

 

[majorwhiteapples]

I just want to point out that this was and is not a Public Pool, this is a private pool. If the residents that live there want to have a party of any kind they have to get permission, provide deposits and possibly even security.

The kids that do not live there, have no right to be at that pool. As residents are limited to, I believe 2 guests.

This would be like your neighbor throwing a party and telling their guest to use your pool.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I just want to point out that this was and is not a Public Pool, this is a private pool. If the residents that live there want to have a party of any kind they have to get permission, provide deposits and possibly even security.

The kids that do not live there, have no right to be at that pool. As residents are limited to, I believe 2 guests.

This would be like your neighbor throwing a party and telling their guest to use your pool.

I didn't get into this, because though I knew it wasn't a public pool, I wasn't sure who all had the right to be at the facility at all. If the rule of the facility is 2 guests per person, than anyone there beyond that should never have been there. However, I don't blame those who showed up. I don't expect them to know the rules and don't consider it unreasonable if they assume that the person inviting them made the proper arrangements. I expect the idiot who organized the event to know and enforce the rules and not to just have a big free-for-all at a private pool.

 

[UTChE96]

As much as I would like to support the officer in question, he was acting like a maniac during that incident. He even did a somersault as he frantically ran to the scene (to be fair he may have tripped because of his recklessness). And his constant cursing at minors was also embarrassing to watch. He just did not conduct himself in the way that I would expect an officer of the law to conduct himself. I suspect that he was already a problematic officer before this incident.

I do agree that it is sad to see the lack of respect towards law enforcement that is developing especially among African Americans. When a police officer tells you to do something, don't argue with them or try to explain how you were doing nothing wrong. Just do what they asked you to do.

 

[Dionysus]

The stress on cops is bad in the best circumstances but right now is a bad time.

I have a lot of respect for law enforcement and what they put on the line every day. Some actions are clearly out of bounds, but it’s hard for me to judge too harshly when a situation can quickly become a life-or-death one. Even well-trained professionals get scared and can react unpredictably.

 

[NJlonghorn]

Why do we have to chose between "the guy throwing the party was wrong" or "the parents were wrong to let their kids go to the party" or "the kids were wrong not to leave quietly when the cops told them to" or "the cops (especially one in particular) was wrong to escalate the situation"? Can't they all be wrong, to one degree or another?

 

[theiioftx]

Amen NJ. However, only one person pays a price here and we all in fact pay with the precedent those actions will have on future police policy.

 

[NJlonghorn]

However, only one person pays a price here and we all in fact pay with the precedent those actions will have on future police policy.

I'm not concerned about the first half of your statement -- one cop paying a price. He did something stupid and in violation of basic tenants of policing, and deserves to be disciplined.

I am concerned with the second half of what you say, but my concern is somewhat different from what I perceive yours to be (although I may be wrong). You seem to be saying that disciplining the errant cop will discourage other cops from getting involved in future situations like this. I don't think that is true. Most cops are good at what they do, and recognize that the cop screwed up in this case. They know that the situation didn't have to escalate out of control, and will continue to intervene in similar situations without problems.

What could discourage cops from getting involved in future situations is an overreaction, such as suspending the other officers (who seem to have done little if anything wrong) pending an investigation. If it becomes the norm to discipline cops, even temporarily, for things that they did right, we are in trouble.

 

[snek]

In regards to Cops and being one today, no thank you.

Cop shot in back today after traffic stop in Houston.

Capt. Dwayne Ready said Smith was putting away his ticket book when he heard a loud pop and felt some pain. Paramedics were called to the scene and found a gunshot wound in his back.

Police say they do not know who shot Smith, but they say it is likely the shooter was in a passing vehicle. They don't believe the shooting and traffic stop are related.

That from the AP. It's actually almost a miracle that the idiots who talk **** to cops don't eat led daily. I am a white-skinned male who gets nervous around Cops too at times. I answer their questions politely, give them what they ask for, follow instructions and move the hell on. That's it. No guff.

 

[theiioftx]

I was going to respond to NJ earlier with the same message, but had to attend to other business.

NJ has no problem with a person losing not only his job, but his career when these men and women face potential tragedy every day? If everyone who made a "stupid" mistake lost their job and career, unemployment would be greater than 50%.

He cursed, he subdued a 15 year old female and he drew his gun but did not point it at two males that aggressively approached him, so he lost his career?

My point that we all pay now is that police are being handcuffed from doing their jobs due to political correctness, including many rational posters on this board. If these idiots don't trespass, disrespect homeowners and police, and follow the law, this guy goes home happy with his family.

 

[snek]

I read moments ago that he and his family are now in hiding due to death threats. Should there be death threats to the families of thugs or anybody that breaks the law? Is that a proper call out for them and for accountability?

There is some truth to the stereotype of a cop in that they are former jocks seeking attention and respect lost or insecure people seeking respect after a lifetime of not getting any. But that is not the majority. However, it does seem the minority make the news more than they should. I am thankful I don't have to wonder if I will be killed at work everyday. Sure it could happen but it's not likely or in the realm of a possibility.

 

[Hollandtex]

The fact that this incident has received national attention is beyond sad to me. This is really an example of a non-story to me. A crowd of teens get rude and mouthy to adults, police are called, it's a circus for a few minutes, then it should have been over.
From all the video I have seen, as well as what I have heard from my sister whose friend lives in that neighborhood, there were teenagers of all shapes, sizes and colors jumping fences and wreaking havoc. The policeman over-reacted, but the girl had several opportunities to walk away as ordered, and kept mouthing off.
In my day, the kids in this situation would have been in major trouble from their parents. Instead, it's another wedge driven into race relations, and most likely a blank check to the girl pushed to the ground by the one policeman. The other policemen seen and heard were being appropriate.

 

[Mr. Deez]

NJ has no problem with a person losing not only his job, but his career when these men and women face potential tragedy every day? If everyone who made a "stupid" mistake lost their job and career, unemployment would be greater than 50%.

He cursed, he subdued a 15 year old female and he drew his gun but did not point it at two males that aggressively approached him, so he lost his career?

That's a very simplistic look at what he did. First of all, the girl was smack talking and acting like a *****, but she was moving away from the scene. He came after her, and that's when all hell broke loose. He escalated the situation. He didn't have to do that. Nothing she was doing was endangering the officer, others at the scene, or herself. And keep in mind that when you "subdue" somebody without necessity or justification, it crosses the line into a criminal and civil assault.

Second, the guys were moving away from him when he pulled the gun out. They started moving back as soon as he stood up. So what's wrong with that? He didn't shoot them. What's wrong with it is that it's friggin' dangerous to everybody in the area. What if he fires the weapon accidentally? What if another person lawfully carrying a gun nearby unaware of what's going on or who's firing gets scared, pulls his own gun out and starts shooting in self-defense? Again, the problem is that he needlessly escalated the situation, and it could have turned a chaotic scene into a shootout with fatalities. And of course, the guys who came over did so after and in response to him throwing the girl on the ground.

The point is that there was a better way of handling the situation. The cop is supposed to diffuse the tension and bring order, not make it tenser and more chaotic. There's a reason why the City isn't taking up for the cop (even though throwing him under the bus makes the civil lawsuit that's coming easier to win and opens the City up to getting sued by the cop as well), and no, it isn't because of Al Sharpton. It's because they know that what he did was indefensible to anyone who cares about the police's professional conduct.

My point that we all pay now is that police are being handcuffed from doing their jobs due to political correctness, including many rational posters on this board. If these idiots don't trespass, disrespect homeowners and police, and follow the law, this guy goes home happy with his family.

Political correctness has nothing to do with it. We could be talking about a pool party of black kids or a pool party of old white guys. The problem is the same. Guys who carry a badge and a gun, act on behalf of a powerful state, and have a license to do things that ordinary citizens can't should be held to a high standard. It's dangerous for them not to be, and if they breach that standard, then yes, they should lose their careers for the sake of the public's safety and liberty. Any other system is tyrannical.

Two things baffle me about the Right's conventional wisdom on this sort of issue. First, if you think a requirement that you buy health insurance (something a sensible person generally does anyway) is an affront to your liberty but that a police officer who can physically assault someone without necessity is not, there's a flaw in your logic. (I think that both are an affront to my liberty for different reasons and to different degrees.)

Second, for whatever reason, some on the Right think that people acting like idiots absolves the cop of acting irresponsibly, and it doesn't and shouldn't. If it did, then there'd be no limits on what a cop could do, because his entire job centers around dealing with idiots. If we didn't have idiots, then there wouldn't be a police force.

By the way, the reverse is also true. The cop's irresponsibility doesn't absolve or lessen the idiocy of the idiots. They're still idiots, and to the extent that they broke the law, they should be in trouble.

 

[theiioftx]

Re watch the video and you will see that he unholstered his weapon and they fled. He never even pointed it at them. Most smart officers have their hand on their weapon when they slowly approach a vehicle pulled over on a traffic stop. Cops are being shot these days when not even in a confrontation. Any idiot charging a cop deserves whatever he gets.

Honestly, Deez, your posts are usually much better than that nonsensical liberal BS you just provided. And as I originally posted, if you do not act irresponsibly you likely will not get an irresponsible response. Neither are right, but one generally flows from the other.

I never said police can assault someone without necessity. This girl was just in a fight, ignored all commands and was causing more of a disturbance. And yes, I do think the government requiring me to buy anything is an affront on my personal liberty. Requiring everyone to buy health insurance is not for the individual, it is for the redistribution to those who can't or won't. Dumb analogy with no application to this situation.

That officer needs some additional training, not an unemployment check and death threats. The defense of criminals and rewarding them (yes, she now has a go fund me page to supplement her Party Throwing Company) is what throws this country, especially the black community, further into problems.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Re watch the video and you will see that he unholstered his weapon and they fled. He never even pointed it at them. Most smart officers have their hand on their weapon when they slowly approach a vehicle pulled over on a traffic stop. Cops are being shot these days when not even in a confrontation. Any idiot charging a cop deserves whatever he gets.

I watched the video again, and that's simply not the case. They took their first steps backwards before he even started motioning to his weapon.

Honestly, Deez, your posts are usually much better than that nonsensical liberal BS you just provided. And as I originally posted, if you do not act irresponsibly you likely will not get an irresponsible response. Neither are right, but one generally flows from the other.

What's liberal about anything I wrote? Siding with a cop doesn't make you conservative, and not siding with him doesn't make you liberal. Again, their irresponsibility doesn't justify his misconduct. It is possible for them to be irresponsible idiots (which they were) and for his response to be the wrong one (which it was). I don't see why you can't grasp that or think it's "liberal" to think that a police officer (the ultimate show of government power) should have handled the situation better than he did.

I never said police can assault someone without necessity. This girl was just in a fight, ignored all commands and was causing more of a disturbance. And yes, I do think the government requiring me to buy anything is an affront on my personal liberty. Requiring everyone to buy health insurance is not for the individual, it is for the redistribution to those who can't or won't. Dumb analogy with no application to this situation.

She did not ignore all commands. He told them to go away and disperse, and she did. She acted like a ***** and smack-talked, but she did walk away. Immediately prior to the take-down, he approached her, and he didn't have to do that and shouldn't have done it.

That officer needs some additional training, not an unemployment check and death threats. The defense of criminals and rewarding them (yes, she now has a go fund me page to supplement her Party Throwing Company) is what throws this country, especially the black community, further into problems.

No, he doesn't need death threats, but he does need to choose another profession. And no, the criminals don't need to be rewarded. I think the person who organized the event should be charged with a crime. Also, these cop controversies aren't all the same, and a fair-minded person looks at them on a case-by-case basis. He doesn't kneejerk side with anybody. For example, Michael Brown did charge the cop. That was backed up by the evidence, and he got what he deserved. The cop did nothing wrong, and he deserved the public's support, not the horsecrap that he got.

However, I don't side with the cop in this case, because I know what I saw. He was out of line. He wasn't protecting the public or even himself. He made an already dangerous situation more dangerous. Furthermore, his white police chief in a very white, very conservative, and very pro-cop city that has no reason to throw him under the bus also thought he was wrong.

 

[Larry T Spider]

When you become a cop, you know that you are going to deal with some disrespectful ******* teenagers and it is your job to be the professional in the situation. The kids and their parents should do better, but that's not reality. The cops are the ones that are trained and paid to handle the situation and therefore are held to a higher standard than idiot teenagers. I get how hard the job is as I come from a law enforcement family. I respect cops because I know how hard their job is. But a huge part of their job is keeping a clear head in tough situations and this guy did not demonstrate that. More than anything, he missed an opportunity to calm the situation down and have a conversation with the kids about respecting their neighbors and the police. I have seen cops do this many times in person and everybody leaves with a handshake and is a little better off for the interaction.

 

[theiioftx]

You guys should become police officers since you so clearly know how to handle mob situations. Those poor teenagers were just having fun when they assaulted residents. There are also still frames showing the two teenagers very close to the officer prior to unholstering the gun.

We should consider police free zones to solve these rogue police forces. Wait, that is already underway in Baltimore.

 

[Larry T Spider]

Why do you think that all the other cops there thought it was best to maintain their composure and only one didn't? Do you think all those other cops don't know how to handle a mob situation? Fwiw my father works in law enforcement and his father was an officer. I grew up around cops and don't have anything against them. I think the majority of the cops handled the situation perfectly. One guy turned a pretty routine situation into something far more dangerous. Context is important in this situation. This is McKinney, not Compton.

 

[Crockett]

Larry, don't you teach middle or high school in a less than prosperous urban area? I expect you know more about dealing with disrespectful teens than anybody except the police. I always thought I loved kids. Got a teaching certificate and taught middle school in an ethnically diverse school. Found out I love kids in a Boy Scout/Cub Scout/Sunday School setting where everybody is polite and cooperative. A cop and a middle school teacher need a heart of gold and a spine of steel. I don't have what it takes to handle either job, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be done properly.

 

[theiioftx]

Each officer was experiencing different aspects. Look, I agree with you law enforcement experts. I am headed to a pool party. Remember all of this the next time you call the police.

#dimepiece

 

[Larry T Spider]

Larry, don't you teach middle or high school in a less than prosperous urban area? I expect you know more about dealing with disrespectful teens than anybody except the police. I always thought I loved kids. Got a teaching certificate and taught middle school in an ethnically diverse school. Found out I love kids in a Boy Scout/Cub Scout/Sunday School setting where everybody is polite and cooperative. A cop and a middle school teacher need a heart of gold and a spine of steel. I don't have what it takes to handle either job, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be done properly.

I teach elementary school in the hood, and the fifth graders are a lot like the kids in the video. Many have spent some time in the juvenile detention center. They steal, act crazy, cuss people out, etc. Somehow we manage to control them without slamming their faces into the ground and cussing them as enticing as it may sound at times. We actually have to teach them stuff too - all for half of a cops salary

 

[theiioftx]

"They steal, act crazy, cuss people out" - EXACTLY. Then they go out and menace the city during the summer. They trespass, steal, fight and do drugs.

Maybe if you were able to discipline them, they would stop. Now you want police to do exactly like the schools do and let them do the same to society. The parents allow it and the schools allow it. Exact reason the majority of public schools are failing and the reason "Comptons" only get bigger.

And your point earlier about McKinney versus Compton was classic. A bit racist, but classic.

 

[Mr. Deez]

And the intelligent discussion stops, and the ****-flinging begins. . .

 

[Larry T Spider]

My point was that we are largely able to get them to stop without throwing them to the ground. There are situations where we must contain students but I have never seen a teacher as out of control as that cop. I am all for increasing discipline measure in schools or even increasing punishments for people acting crazy with cops. But, I also don't want to pay a person to walk around with a gun that loses control. It's a recipe for disaster and that's why so much of their training is about doing exactly the opposite of what that cop did. It's not about throwing the girl on the ground as much as it is about the danger that comes with losing your mind.

Lol at my comment about Compton/McKinney pool party being racist. It's black people in both places. The difference is that one has an extremely high violent crime rate and one has one well below the national and state average. That context is important when walking into a situation.

Edit: this will be my last post on this thread but most schools are not failing. 84.9% of texas public schools met standard.