Coronavirus

I posted this in another thread, but also thought it was appropriate here.

We had a company leadership zoom call last week and our virologist advisor at Johns Hopkins did a presentation. He said we should be into 70% herd immunity by June or July and life should go back to normal. There is also a drug company who apparently successfully modified a vaccination that is showing success against all strains of covid. I'm kind of surprised that isn't all over the media except they don't like to paint a happy covid picture.
 
Monahorns said:
AustinHorn24, you are better at moving goalposts than the Tech mob after their game with A&M in 2001.
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Well I have a general rule that I've had since I was about 15 -- I've consistently believed that published papers with real statistical evaluation are 100 times better than random data dumps from anonymous internet hacks without any statistical analysis.
 
AustinHorn24 said:
Well I have a general rule that I've had since I was about 15 -- I've consistently believed that published papers with real statistical evaluation are 100 times better than random data dumps from anonymous internet hacks without any statistical analysis.
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You libs and your feelings.... :)
 
OUBubba said:
You libs and your feelings.... :)
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What's funny is that I agree with them that the evidence for shutdowns is extremely murky and I also agree that shutdowns are harmful to people and shouldn't be used unless the evidence is firm.

But masks are different and shutting down the economy should not be equated with mask requirements. I'm gonna call BS on people who are going to claim that masks are worthless and don't do anything at all to decrease COVID transmission. It defies common sense, it defies all known methods of disease transmission, and worst of all, it defies the evidence.
 
No one ever said that masks were able to decrease transmission until April 2020. I have read CDC epidemic guidelines from November 2019. No kind of mandates were suggested. Masks were not stated as effective in reducing case rates. All the epidemiologists were saying the same thing in March 2020. But then that changed way before there was any data to support one way or the other. The change in narrative has been staunchly held onto and there is no widespread agreement in the mask studies. You have linked to some that show a beneficial effect, a very small one. There are others that show no benefit. "Data dumps" show the same thing and are submitted to the public at large for criticism.
 
Monahorns said:
No one ever said that masks were able to decrease transmission until April 2020. I have read CDC epidemic guidelines from November 2019. No kind of mandates were suggested. Masks were not stated as effective in reducing case rates. All the epidemiologists were saying the same thing in March 2020. But then that changed way before there was any data to support one way or the other. The change in narrative has been staunchly held onto and there is no widespread agreement in the mask studies. You have linked to some that show a beneficial effect, a very small one. There are others that show no benefit. "Data dumps" show the same thing and are submitted to the public at large for criticism.
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Our Public Health officer called for mask mandates internally on 2/8/20. I know because I threw a little bit of a fit and said "if we give masks to everyone we won't have enough to use for the actual threat, influenza". We had enough for 9 days at that point. It's like "ii's" typed that email. :)
 
OUBubba said:
Our Public Health officer called for mask mandates internally on 2/8/20. I know because I threw a little bit of a fit and said "if we give masks to everyone we won't have enough to use for the actual threat, influenza". We had enough for 9 days at that point. It's like "ii's" typed that email. :)
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They gave you N-95’s in February with a 9 day supply?
 
AustinHorn24 said:
Well I have a general rule that I've had since I was about 15 -- I've consistently believed that published papers with real statistical evaluation are 100 times better than random data dumps from anonymous internet hacks without any statistical analysis.
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So you've believed this for 2 whole years? What does your mom say about this? Is the chess club on board?
 
OUBubba said:
Our Public Health officer called for mask mandates internally on 2/8/20. I know because I threw a little bit of a fit and said "if we give masks to everyone we won't have enough to use for the actual threat, influenza". We had enough for 9 days at that point. It's like "ii's" typed that email. :)
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I feel like you won’t answer my reply. If they started using N-95’s in February knowing they had a 9 day supply and a nation wide shortage, your Public Health Officer is an idiot. If you only had 9 days supply of cloth masks, you don’t have a telephone or internet.
 
AustinHorn24 said:
Well I have a general rule that I've had since I was about 15 -- I've consistently believed that published papers with real statistical evaluation are 100 times better than random data dumps from anonymous internet hacks without any statistical analysis.
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Since he was 15. Damn he is amazing. I’ll bet HIC $10,000 he won’t sponsor.
 
Handing out surgical masks to administrative workers in a hospital when in short supply is beyond stupid. The hysteria that the media and government caused about this virus resulted in lots of idiotic moves. Looks like your facility was leading the way.
 
OUBubba said:
I think it has more to do with the political climate of the region than the boogeyman that is the union. That's my point. Red state is in person school.
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Oh really? Explain why Lib politicians are fighting the unions to get back to in person school? Why did San Francisco, the transgendered mother of all liberal bastions, have to sue the teacher's union?
 
theiioftx said:
Show me the science you speak of where masks stopped or even slowed the virus. Just because CNN says so, that’s not science.
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This is one of the reasons I'm more offended by my fellow Republicans than I am Democrats. This narrative that I can't have a different opinion from you unless I've been brainwashed by the liberal media.

This is part of the problem. That's not actually a reasoned reply with any substance.

How is the media even a topic in this? We're talking about research.
 
theiioftx said:
I feel like you won’t answer my reply. If they started using N-95’s in February knowing they had a 9 day supply and a nation wide shortage, your Public Health Officer is an idiot. If you only had 9 days supply of cloth masks, you don’t have a telephone or internet.
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theiioftx said:
Handing out surgical masks to administrative workers in a hospital when in short supply is beyond stupid. The hysteria that the media and government caused about this virus resulted in lots of idiotic moves. Looks like your facility was leading the way.
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I made enemies by pushing back on that part.
 
X Misn Tx said:
This is one of the reasons I'm more offended by my fellow Republicans than I am Democrats. This narrative that I can't have a different opinion from you unless I've been brainwashed by the liberal media.

This is part of the problem. That's not actually a reasoned reply with any substance.

How is the media even a topic in this? We're talking about research.
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Welcome to the party doc!
 
A question for the pro mask people. Are these studies that show a positive correlation with wearing masks mixing in N95 masks with the study or cloth masks alone? We do know the N95 masks are effective but are the cloth masks?
 
X Misn Tx said:
This is one of the reasons I'm more offended by my fellow Republicans than I am Democrats. This narrative that I can't have a different opinion from you unless I've been brainwashed by the liberal media.

This is part of the problem. That's not actually a reasoned reply with any substance.

How is the media even a topic in this? We're talking about research.
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No, we are not just talking about research because there is very limited research on the prevention of Covid transmission by wearing masks. The media has a role because they frequently declare that SCIENCE requires the wearing of masks during the pandemic. I agree with you that the media should have no role in this debate.

I've listed a number of papers that indicate that the N-95 masks are at best marginally effective in reducing the spread of infectious disease. The one study that surprised me indicated the wearing of masks in surgery has no effect on post operative infections. In fact, there was a small increase (statistically insignificant) in infections when masks were worn in surgery.

The cloth masks that most wear are a security blanket for the anxious. The cloth masks filter out almost nothing, certainly not microorganisms and viruses. And wearing a mask for hours or days, putting the mask in your pocket or on a table, then sticking back on your mouth and nose sounds ridiculous to me. But it makes people feel better. But I'll probably continue to wear mine for a while when I go into a business, just to prevent any liberals from getting upset. That's the kind of guy I am - a true peacemaker.

:fiestanana:
 
X Misn Tx said:
This is one of the reasons I'm more offended by my fellow Republicans than I am Democrats. This narrative that I can't have a different opinion from you unless I've been brainwashed by the liberal media.

This is part of the problem. That's not actually a reasoned reply with any substance.

How is the media even a topic in this? We're talking about research.
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The media has controlled the narrative and created unnecessary fear. They have manipulated data to lure viewers. The scoreboards were the best example and any story or person that broke that narrative was ignored or cancelled.
 
Our Public Health officer called for mask mandates internally on 2/8/20. I know because I threw a little bit of a fit and said "if we give masks to everyone we won't have enough to use for the actual threat, influenza". We had enough for 9 days at that point. It's like "ii's" typed that email.
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Interesting. Based on what? Like I said I read the CDC guidelines for epidemics from November 2019.
 
This is one of the reasons I'm more offended by my fellow Republicans than I am Democrats. This narrative that I can't have a different opinion from you unless I've been brainwashed by the liberal media.

This is part of the problem. That's not actually a reasoned reply with any substance.

How is the media even a topic in this? We're talking about research.
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Who said you CAN'T have a different opinion? All I am reading is here is everyone arguing for what they think is correct. But please don't think I want to control you or anyone else's viewpoint by force.

That is in fact what we are writing against regarding mandating behavior. It forces a certain type of behavior. It limits individual risk assessment and responsibility. The media is involved because they report 1 side of the issue in a very heavy handed way. People get censored from social media for not agreeing with one side over the other.

If you are more angry at Rs for giving a dissenting viewpoint and calling for freedom and protection of rights, then I am not sure the Rs are your fellows. That doesn't mean I want to control your opinion though.
 
XM
I did not follow your exchange with iis closely.
If you only offered as Your opinion that masks are effective you should not have to be asked for links simply for stating an opinion.
If though you cited studies as proof masks work
How is it not reasonable to ask for those study links?
 
4th_floor said:
No, we are not just talking about research because there is very limited research on the prevention of Covid transmission by wearing masks.
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********. I already posted over a dozen research studies showing that wearing a mask is better than wearing nothing.

I've listed a number of papers that indicate that the N-95 masks are at best marginally effective in reducing the spread of infectious disease.
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And your conclusion from that statement is that wearing nothing is the same benefit as wearing an N-95? Nobody ever claimed that masks were perfect or prevent 100% of transmission. All we've said is that wearing a mask, any mask, is better than nothing.

The one study that surprised me indicated the wearing of masks in surgery has no effect on post operative infections. In fact, there was a small increase (statistically insignificant) in infections when masks were worn in surgery.
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COVID transmission has absolutely NOTHING to do with perioperative wound infections. You need to go read some basic microbiology.

I also told you to go talk to surgeons and find out why they dont give a **** what your study says and will continue to wear masks regardless.

The cloth masks that most wear are a security blanket for the anxious. The cloth masks filter out almost nothing, certainly not microorganisms and viruses. And wearing a mask for hours or days, putting the mask in your pocket or on a table, then sticking back on your mouth and nose sounds ridiculous to me. But it makes people feel better.
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Once again, nonsense. I've already posted studies showing cloth masks are better than nothing.

And don't talk to me about filter size or microns because viruses don't move in straight lines, they follow the principles of Brownian motion.
 
Just because one posts a study does not mean that it was significant or substantial. And when those studies show minimal difference between what amounts to placebo and non-placebo, they are not persuasive.

The masks offer no substantial level of protection for the wearer. They just don't.

I also doubt those studies would be any more persuasive had they been posted by someone who actually sponsors the site...
 
theiioftx said:
The media has controlled the narrative and created unnecessary fear. They have manipulated data to lure viewers. The scoreboards were the best example and any story or person that broke that narrative was ignored or cancelled.
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I work in health data. I work with millions of covid test results , millions of antibody test results. I work with physicians who don't want to go out of business and don't want their patients to die. That is a moral issue, a business issue, and an existential issue.

The media is so far down my filter through which I take in information on this.

In my opinion, the media (CNN, Fox, msnbc, NewsMax) is irrelevant as it relates to this issue. Politics is irrelevant to this issue.

Only science (medical research about the disease process), developmental psychology (the need for children to socialize and see faces etc ), and economics (keeping our economy from collapsin ) matter to me. And there's a tension between the three. Ignoring any one of the three is idiotic.

I believe how we balance the three is where politics comes back in . Minimizing any one of the three is where party politics comes in. Make this about sincere differences in application of the facts. Don't ignore them.

This is true for me for all of the parties involved.
 
X Misn, ever heard of Zach Bush? I heard an interesting pod cast of him from a Dec interview that I found very interesting. Tried to copy here but said some server error.
 
I agree x Misn TX. My comment is that our constitutional and traditional culture pushes those decisions down to private property owners and individuals. People and small groups can take the relevant data and make the best decision for themselves. The American answer has been to turn away from topdown, one size fits all solutions.
 
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