Coronavirus

NJlonghorn said:
@Mr. Deez. I don't expect many on this board to consider contrary evidence, but I do hope you will reconsider jumping to such a hasty conclusion.

The term "asymptomatic" does not mean what most people think it does. Someone is "asymptomatic" if they go through the entire course of an infection without showing symptoms. A patient who has no current symptoms but will develop them later is called "pre-symptomatic". Notably, the infection rate for pre-symptomatic patients is much higher than for asymptomatic patients. Thus, the point still remains that people who appear to be perfectly healthy may still be in a position to spread the virus.

Sorry for not giving links, but this information is on the front page of every major news outlet I've checked. Except for Fox, that is -- but it is only the liberal media that is biased. :rolleyes1:
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I can accept that there's a difference between being asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic. However, they didn't need this issue to blow their credibility. I largely defended the scientific community on the lockdown and social distancing, but their willingness to set aside their own standards to support anti-cop protests simply isn't defensible. You just can't call yourself a serious scientist and be that blatantly inconsistent.
 
Garmel said:
It's on Fox News Hot Topics. It's on the front page. Hardly biased on this topic.
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It wasn't there at all when I posted, and even now it is posted as one of many headlines in a small box off to the side and several scrolls down from the bottom of the main screen. I'm not suggesting that there is some grand effort by Fox to bury the story. I'm just pointing out that different media sources provide different levels of coverage to different topics, and Fox is no exception. Similar coverage by CNN would be bashed on this board.
 
Mr. Deez said:
their willingness to set aside their own standards to support anti-cop protests simply isn't defensible.
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That is true of politicians, and of the protesters themselves.

But I'm not sure the same is true of scientists -- at least not to the same extent. I've read from and about many scientists voicing concerns about the protests -- most notably, Dr. Fauci.
 
NJlonghorn said:
That is true of politicians, and of the protesters themselves.

But I'm not sure the same is true of scientists -- at least not to the same extent. I've read from and about many scientists voicing concerns about the protests -- most notably, Dr. Fauci.
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Fauci has stayed consistent, but I've been seen other docs pitch their wokeness on the issue. And of course, the media is almost unanimously supportive. Protest the lockdowns and losing your livelihood, and you're gonna kill grandma. Protest the police, and it's all good.
 
The term "asymptomatic" does not mean what most people think it does. Someone is "asymptomatic" if they go through the entire course of an infection without showing symptoms. A patient who has no current symptoms but will develop them later is called "pre-symptomatic". Notably, the infection rate for pre-symptomatic patients is much higher than for asymptomatic patients. Thus, the point still remains that people who appear to be perfectly healthy may still be in a position to spread the virus.
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This is all true but it still doesn't justify the fear mongering. There health organizations have made contradictory statements through the episode. If you don't question their credibility you are credulous.

About pre-symptomatic people, I have read that before symptoms are showing the infectiousness is still very low. Not 0, but very low. The most infectious time is when symptoms first appear, the patients stays very infectious during the middle section of the infection, and then the infectiousness decreases, even if bad symptoms remain.

I think part of that reason for this, this is my speculation, is that at first the virus is trying to get a foothold in the host. It has to increase its population to a certain point before the virus is shed or until the viruses that are shed are at full strength. Then towards the end the body is still feeling the effects of the virus and is shedding but the viruses aren't as viable outside the body.

The other factor in my speculation is that if a person is not coughing the amount of aerosol its spacial extent are going to be limited.

But I guess now that the riots are over we have to be afraid of COVID again.
 
NJlonghorn said:
It wasn't there at all when I posted, and even now it is posted as one of many headlines in a small box off to the side and several scrolls down from the bottom of the main screen. I'm not suggesting that there is some grand effort by Fox to bury the story. I'm just pointing out that different media sources provide different levels of coverage to different topics, and Fox is no exception. Similar coverage by CNN would be bashed on this board.
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It was at the very top of the Fox News page in one of the big boxes earlier. I've had this same argument with Seattle Husker before. Fox News doesn't seem to keep a story in one of the big boxes for more than an hour or so.
 
Even the Trotskyites at the Guardian see the hypocrisy and double standard. Link.

Here's an open letter signed by numerous medical "experts" mostly blowing off the standards we've heard with great righteousness over the last two months.

If you think the Right is dumb to be skeptical of the "experts" and "professionals," crap like this is why they are. You can't act baldly partisan and political and then expect people to take you seriously when you claim to only care about the science. This is a much bigger credibility-killer than the asymptomatic-pre-symptomatic issue. Basically, people have no reason to trust these "professionals" again.
 
The extent of the corona virus today is also being distorted, maybe not on purpose.

We are hearing reports in Texas of records new cases and levels of COVID patients in hospitals.

However, when you look below the surface, the new case records are happening because 1) more tests are being performed than ever and 2) testing is being focused on hotspots, nursing homes, and prisons. So you are naturally going to see higher % positive results because it isn't a random sampling. That is a good way to protect the population, but not a good way to estimate the level of outbreak. Overall, the US indicators are showing that we are way down the curve.

For hospital usage, we are seeing that hospitals are holding COVID patients longer. If you look at new hospital admittance per day we are still decreasing.
 
Garmel said:
It was at the very top of the Fox News page in one of the big boxes earlier. I've had this same argument with Seattle Husker before. Fox News doesn't seem to keep a story in one of the big boxes for more than an hour or so.
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Why, its almost as if things keep happening throughout the day...

Speaking of SH, and in all seriousness, anyone know if they are trapped in that nonsensical 'autonomous zone' crap? Or are they more in a suburb?
 
Monahorns said:
The extent of the corona virus today is also being distorted, maybe not on purpose.

We are hearing reports in Texas of records new cases and levels of COVID patients in hospitals.

However, when you look below the surface, the new case records are happening because 1) more tests are being performed than ever and 2) testing is being focused on hotspots, nursing homes, and prisons. So you are naturally going to see higher % positive results because it isn't a random sampling. That is a good way to protect the population, but not a good way to estimate the level of outbreak. Overall, the US indicators are showing that we are way down the curve.

For hospital usage, we are seeing that hospitals are holding COVID patients longer. If you look at new hospital admittance per day we are still decreasing.
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Concurring with the increased testing in prisons...Strike Team has performed something like 100K tests in the past week. And the hospitalization numbers are necessarily going to include those transported to prison medical facilities (and perhaps even moved to 10-building on the Michael-type facilities).

I've been waging battle with some because they only look at a tally and not HOW we got to the tally. It is almost as if public education and colleges no longer teach RATE calculations...
 
Dow plunges 1700 points supposedly on the fear that COVID is making a big come back thanks to the rioting and what not.
 
Slight upticks in less than 10 states are cause for fear and anxiety now. The upticks are due to hotspot testing, more testing, and adding antibody test numbers to new cases counts.

COVID was a true health crisis but this fear mongering during the tail is the hoax.
 
Even Fox experts are now saying Trump could lose the election! So it’s working for the Dems as disputable as some of it is, it’s working. They would use anything as a prop to win an election! Anything.
 
AC said:
Even Fox experts are now saying Trump could lose the election! So it’s working for the Dems as disputable as some of it is, it’s working. They would use anything as a prop to win an election! Anything.
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Of course, he could lose. He lost the popular vote and barely won in the critical swing states (Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania) against a weak Democratic nominee. We've lost support in suburban areas of some red states that is making them harder to win (George, Arizona, Texas, etc.), and we've done little to expand our base or convince HRC voters to flip in 2020. Trump's best chance was to thread the needle and win the electoral college by barely winning the swing states and losing the popular vote (by getting curb-stomped in California, Illinois, and New York) like he did four years ago.

Furthermore, in the last few weeks, there has been virtually no Republican leadership on the protests and rioting. There have been some comments and Trump did the photo op at the church, but he hasn't done anything big. He can and should be taking a leadership role, and he's not. Into that vacuum has stepped the media and political commentators, and they're almost universally anti-Trump and militantly so. So their narrative is getting forced through with almost no response. That's going to hurt Trump, as it would hurt any Republican.

I think he's hoping everything will die down in the coming weeks, and it likely will. However, that will just put him back where he was, which wasn't a great position anyway.
 
Garmel said:
Hell, they're always against Trump. If he does an executive order to shut down that crap in Seattle we'll have people on the side of the terrorists.
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Hell, these folks backed the Chinese government's version of the Coronavirus saga over their own government's version. They'd probably call for Chinese intervention if Trump goes in.
 
Betting odds have swapped in the past couple weeks. Biden is now the favorite. Trump needs to focus his message and stop responding to his opponents non-stop. He needs to start controlling the narrative and stay on message. I cannot imagine the stress of being his Chief of Staff.
 
I think holding debates could help Trump.

But he hasn't done well with the riots. Calling for disproportional jail time or federal military intervention doesn't help with the people who are undecided, moderate.

At the same time, more and more people are being red pilled by all this. The polls don't bare that out but they are more and more divorced from reality.
 
Garmel said:
It was at the very top of the Fox News page in one of the big boxes earlier. I've had this same argument with Seattle Husker before. Fox News doesn't seem to keep a story in one of the big boxes for more than an hour or so.
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Give me a break. Major stories that are pro-liberal go up and come down quickly. But anti-liberal stories stay up on Fox News for days. For example, this one from 2 days ago is still at the top right now.

To be clear -- I'm not complaining about this. I am perfectly fine with Fox News being biased to the right, just like I'm perfectly fine with CNN being equally biased to the left. I try to read both to give myself an idea of where the boundaries of the Overton Window lie. I occasionally agree with one or the other, but I usually find the truth somewhere in between.
 
All I know is, I have found some nice homes in Grand Cayman if **** hits the fan here. I really think if Biden wins America as we all know it is dead. We'll just be another bankrupt, socialist, statist Country.
 
NJ?
It is not at the top of FoxNews now. And wasn't yesterday
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AC said:
All I know is, I have found some nice homes in Grand Cayman if **** hits the fan here.
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I have a friend who plans to move to the Yucatan. His rationale is that it's a part of the world that has enough money to be civilized but not so much money that people have time to argue over stupid things. He said, "how many Mexicans are debating how many genders there are? None. They can't afford to be that stupid."
 
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