Compare this team to the Final Four team

L

LonghornsWin

500+ Posts
Would someone who knows a lot more X's and O's in BB than I do compare this years team to the Final Four year?

Specifically, match-up challenges to other teams, quality of team defense, and so on.

Thanks in advance!
 
The biggest advantage 2003 had was the TJ factor he made everyone on the court better and no one could match up with him. The other advantage 03 would appear early this season to have had over this team would be James Thomas who was a monster rebounder and physical presence. However, as Tristan improves and with Wangmene and Hill becoming more of a presence I begin to think that really the only big advantage 03 had was TJ. This team seems more complete than '03 and definitely has a stronger bench though '03 was no slouch.

In terms of matchups Hamilton fits the TJ role of being your go to guy though obviously not at PG. Cory Joseph is not anywhere near TJ level but he is really solid so while there is a dropoff it isnt fatal. Thompson fills the Thomas role and I guess Dogus is Royal Ivey but with more speed and little better defense though less of an offensive threat. Gary Johnson is your Brad Buckman and Matt Hill/Alexi Wangmene are your Klotz? Not sure who is Brian Boddicker, maybe that is J'Covan as both were/are deadly at three pointers when they were on.

I saw a ton of the 03 teams games in person and that team just had a feel about it. If Carmelo doesnt go crazy in New Orleans and carry Syracuse I am convinced that team would have won the NC. This 2011 team seems to have all the pieces to make another legit NC run.
 
the final four team was awesome, but i'm not sure they played at the level that this team is playing right now--certainly not defensively. the first half last night was incredible. offensively and defensively, we were almost flawless.
 
i hate to jump ahead, but this is the best texas team i've seen in the last 15-20 years (so far). it will be up to barnes to keep this team level-headed. the only potential pitfall i see down the road is when we are playing equally talented teams, and we simply get out-coached or rattled somehow (injuries, our bigs get in foul trouble, playing a team similar to Syracuse '03).

it was nice to see hubert davis say this was the best half of basketball that he has seen all year last night.
 
Also this team has played in some incredibly big games in incredibly harsh environments (Kansas, MSU, North Carolina to name a few) and have held up well. This is a GOOD sign come tournament time.
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Here's my abbreviated take

Hamilton >> Mouton (Hamilton is bigger, better rebounder, same shooting)

Joseph << Ford (Joseph isn't as explosive as Ford but maybe a bit better on the defensive side due to Ford's size. )

Balbay = Ivey (either a wash or Ivey is better, both defensive specialists)

Johnson = Buckman (Buckman had better size, Johnson has better mid-range shot and a lot more experience)

Thompson > Thomas (Thomas was a great rebounder but Thompson has a better offensive game and I think is a better defender)

Hill = Klotz (big body used for defense)

Brown >> Ross (when Brown is on his game, this is a big difference between the benches)

Wangmene < Boddicker (Boddicker better shooter-not sure how to analyze this one)
 
This seems like a better TEAM than what I remember from '03. Setting aside individual talent comparisons, 03 was all about TJ + everyone else. This team is impressive as a unit: chemistry, team defense, offensive balance...plus they're long and athletic at every position.

March can't get here soon enough!
 
Do we have a player similar to Sydmill Harris? Do any of our players speak 5 languages?
 
The final four team could shoot free throws and the UConn team they beat was a bad mutha who won it all the next year. OU was phenomenal that year too, and Texas beat them twice. Syracuse had a great run that took out OSU, OU, Texas and KU.

I think I'll wait til the season's end before declaring this team better than the final four team.


Another player for the Final Four team that no one has mentioned was Deginald Erskin.

He had a rough senior season with injuries and family situation, but he was key in some big games.

Below is the lead from an article before the sweet sixteen.

Last season, senior F Deginald Erskin inexplicably doubled his scoring average (to just more than 12 ppg) during Texas’ final five post-season contests. With arguably the nation’s premiere post player in first-team All-Big East sophomore F Emeka Okafor patrolling the paint, Erskin’s presence will be as vital come 6:27 p.m. Friday as during last year’s surprising Sweet 16 run.
 
I understand that Ford could take over a game and penetrate and dish better than anyone we have now.

On the other hand the overall offense and defense seem better at this point than the 2003 team. Especially, the defense.

Do y'all agree?
 
I love this team and we are just peaking so hard to compare to where we were even a month ago. The 03 team could win close games though. Basically TJ could get to the line and knock down FTs when you needed them. He could take anyone off the dribble at will and then had Mouton and Boddicker to kick to. This team is much better on the D side of the ball though. Our post D is unbelievable.
 
Unfortunately, the Final Four team hit Syracuse and Carmelo when he was playing lights out. It happens; play again 2 weeks later and maybe....

But I believe the 1978 NIT champion team of Jim Krivacs, Johnny Moore, Ron Baxter, Tyrone Branyan, and Gary Goodner was the best Texas team I've seen.

They had really developed that extra sense of knowing where each other was, what they were going to do, when they were doing it, etc.

Chemistry. Not as talented as this bunch, and had a couple of years to develop into that, but better --- at this point.

God, I hope no more than 1 or 2 of the frosh/sophs leave after this year. They could be REAL fun next year.
 
Blonthang, 100% agree about the '78 team. Remember, that was when the NCAA tournament was only 16 teams.

With regard to the '03 team TJ was virtually unstoppable and we don't have that type of offensive weapon. The current team plays better D...psychotic textbook D. FT's will probably not help us down the stretch this year.
 
TJ was a better ball handler and driver than Joseph, but Joseph is a better outside shooter. Assist to turnover ratio comparable. TJ was probably a better defender, but Joseph is no slouch. TJ was a much better FT shooter. Key: on this Texas team Joseph does not need to be as good as TJ was for the Longhorns to win.

TT better than JT. TT rebounds as well or better, is better on the pick and roll, better passer, better offensive rebounder, better scorer down low, more moves, better shot blocker, better springs. JT was raw. JT was a much better FT shooter, but who wouldn't be.

Hamilton better than Mouton. Taller, longer wingspan, better ballhandler, better driver and probably better from long range, Mouton had fewer mental lapses, was a smarter defender and had a better shot selection, although Hamilton improves every week in this regard. Hamilton's wingspan and height make him a better rebounder and better able to score down low. Hamilton will be a first round pick. Mouton did not have that level of athleticism and skill.

Johnson better than Buckman. Both with great work ethic and pretty savvy. Buckman was taller and able to muscle a bit better, but Johnson is more experienced than Buckman was and has more stamina. This season Johnson is shooting very well. He is also quicker than Buckman.

Ivey vs. Balbay. I give the edge, but not too great, to Ivey because he seemed to be a bit quicker, is taller, has a longer wingspan and he could, when necessary, hit a jumper. I recall that he was also a far better FT shooter.

Boddicker better than Hill/Wangmene. More polished, far better shooter, better scorer down low, better ball handler, comparable rebounder and just plain meaner. Boddicker was an ******* despised by every opponent and he didn't give a **** - he reveled in it.

The rest: J'Covan Brown would start for most D-1 teams. Few of our opponents have his level of talent on the court or coming off the bench. That cannot be said for any second teamer on the 2003 Texas team. Brown is a good ball player who has lacked maturity. He continues to develop and he could prove to be the difference between an early out or a long tournament run. Plus, he can shoot free throws.

I loved the 2003 team. They were right up there with the 1978 NIT champs who had they beaten Arkansas or UH another time that year likely would have received an NCAA invite and done very well. They were excellent.

Another excellent Texas team that would have fared well in the then smaller field NCAA was the pre-injury Mike Wacker and Lasalle Thompson team - two superstars with a lesser supporting cast than 2003 and this season. They dominated their opponents.
 
Its almost impossible to compare those teams. Offensively the coaching gameplan was vastly different. While this team has more overall talent the 03 team had TJ.
It is very hard to overstate what TJ meant and what he was able to do. He not only could take over games at times but he ALWAYS controlled the game. If you take our current best player (probably JH) this team can still make a decent run in teh tourney. If you took TJ off that team then they are a bubble tourney team that get ousted in first rd.

On a side note, If i remember correctly the Big 12 was loaded that year with 2 teams in the final 4. and and #1 seed OU losing in elite 8. Damn i wish Carmelo went straight to the NBA from HS.
 
Hard call. I love this team, especially on defense, and agree that they could be a Final Four team.

But this team has no one who compares to TJ on the offensive end. One simple question is: which player on this team will win the Naismith? We can forget how TJ dominated with his quickness, creativity, handle, and clutch shots. Yes, he wasn't a great jump shooter, but he hit plenty of big shots, and was money from the line. A player like that is HUGE in the tourney. No single player stands out in that way for this team.

Having said that, I still think this team could be better, when all's said and done. Can't wait for March!
 
B thang, I agree that '78 Texas team was special. Another Great TEAM was the one with Wacker, until he went down in Waco on that crappy gym floor. That team folded, without Wacker, just like last years team. Ol' Abe said that no one realized just how important Wacker was to that team until he went down. He was still pretty good when he came back for his last year, but nothing like he was before the injury.

Johnny Moore was a great point guard, probably the 2nd best we have ever had after TJ. BJ may eventually may be better and take over no. 2 but right now I would rank BJ as the 3rd best I have seen at Texas.

You may be 55, I am a little older. I Remember a team from the 60's with Jimmy Gilbert, Humprey and I don't remember the rest of the team. They had the no 1 ranked BearCats on the ropes for three quarters of the game in the 2nd round before finally going down. I believe they beat Texas Western soundly in the first round. Texas Western was a heavy favorite.

Loved Abe, never knew why he was canned, but we then entered the years of the Mississippi Nazi. Those were the dark ages.
 
I too disagree that Brown is as quick as Ford was.

Hamilton is now getting some buzz for National POY though I do not think he has a chance for that unless the other candidates really drop off the map.
 
I strongly disagree with 2 things on this thread:
1. That Brown is quicker/faster/more explosive than TJ. I love Brown, but he is not in the same stratosphere as TJ here.
2. That TJ was a better defender than Joseph. TJ was a pretty poor defender, and Joseph is elite. Did you ever see TJ shut anyone down? He was awesome, but not known as a defender.
 
I wouldn't categorize T.J. as a poor defender--didn't he D up Price in our pivotal series with OU?--but it's fair to say he is not in Corey Joseph's class.
 
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