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I see Paso has memorized the Dem talking points.
Yes Shuman WAS appointed by Bush but he was NOT a Bush supporter or even a Republican.
He served less than 9 months under Bush and 4 years under BO

paso is trying to use the same deflection all the Dems hope will work.

Facts keep getting in the way
 
This board is like a Faux News echo chamber. What a joke the GOP and its supporters have become.

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So the President and Government can obain all my phone records and internet activity but we can't be given an honest answer about what the POTUS was doing for 9 hours during the Benghzi attack?

That is the biggest mistake a POTUS has made since Lincoln drafted a mercenary army to kill fellow Americans.
 
Paso, I don't watch Fox News and would be considered a sell-out or a RINO by many. However, anyone who just summarily dismisses this without a thorough investigation can't reasonably be considered fair regardless of what news propaganda network he warches.
 
A thorough investigation by Issa? The guy lies about everything. Benghazi should demonstrate to any thinking person that Issa is a lying piece of garbage.

There is zero evidence that the IRS matter touched the White House. None. If you knew or know anything about how the IRS is run, you would realize that it is a quasi-independent agency that was controlled by a Bush appointee. It is never going to get beyond this (and I doubt he knew about it either).

I get that you want to pretend to be a moderate. You aren't. Your posts on here reveal that you are somewhat reasonable amongst the right wing nutcases on here. This hardly makes you a moderate or some voice of reason.

The GOP is so lost and this entire forum (and thread) just shows why. I mostly lurk here just to laugh. The most entertaining thread was the one where you try to rationalize losing the youth vote. It cannot be that the GOP's policies suck and alienate the youth. It has to be that the youth is "indoctrinated" or not properly "educated".

Keep whistling past that graveyard. 2020 is going to be fun. I do think you guys have a shot in 2014 and 2016 which is exactly what all of this nonsense is about.

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It's the old "say something again and again and maybe people will believe it" crap. Paso doesn't know a damned thing but he can make statements about everything. If you do know something we don't know, Paso, please quote your source. And I don't consider the media to be a real source. Apparently, after being grilled today, the FBI Director knows very little about the investigation of the IRS. Please tell us, Paso, how you know more. Did Rachel Maddow tell you?? Pathetic.
 
I think an full and transparent investigation is important for the credibility of the IRS and this administration. There is no doubt that the Issa led committee is completely incapable of that though. Issa is clearly acting as a political attack dog. If the GOP truly suspected malfeasance by the White House they'd be screaming from every microphone for an independent investigation. Heck, they did that just to smear Clinton's nose in the Lewinsky scandal.

When Issa begins pushing for an independent investigation then I'll be ready to believe he has evidence of a trail to White House involvement. Until then, this is political grandstanding on some horrible decisions by lower level government employees.
 
The IRS IG already did a thorough investigation. This is what makes Issa's grandstanding all the more pathetic. And in the proud tradition of Joseph McCarthy he will call for an independent investigation when hell freezes over. He, like the entire Right on this BBS, is not interested in reality or the truth.

If they were actually interested in the truth, they would very quickly realize that Obama would never be behind this for several very good reasons. The first reason is that the IRS is a quasi-independent agency somewhat similar to the Federal Reserve System. The President appoints the head guy, but then the agency is run independently. The head guy at the IRS until recently was a Bush appointee.

The second reason is that the Tea Party helps the Democrats. Obama and his political team knows this. They want the Tea Party to continue damaging the Republicans.

The third reason (this is actually the number one reason with me, but I am sure it is not with the Right wing nitwits on here) is that it would be wrong. Obama is and has been extremely ethical. He would not do this.

It is laughable to compare this to Watergate or any other scandal. Maybe if we investigate a few hundred more invented and manufactured scandals we will find something. You have nothing on Obama and are just trying to smear him with innuendo.

This is certainly not the way the legal process works (Obama would get summary judgment on any of these "claims"), but it is play one in the Republican political playbook when out of power. If you just could investigate for a few more years, you might find something.

It is very fitting coming from a party and group of sycophants bereft of ideas. Joseph McCarthy would be so proud.
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Lost in all this is what the "scandal" is really all about. The real issue is whether these organizations can keep their donor lists secret. It also should be obvious to anyone that these political organizations should all be scrutinized (just not singled out). Everyone should be against secret political donations and the activity test for the status is sort of a joke.

One side, however, thinks that keeping donors secret is advantageous to them so they want to pour in on the IRS. They also want to damage and even perhaps dismantle the IRS getting flat taxes. This is not my side.
 
I am confused. It seems to me that the IRS specifically targeted 100% conservative groups alone. There are not any reports of them targeting liberal groups are there? Mean time we know that IRS officials visited/were invited to the White House 157 times during a 2-3 year span and it is not possible that the two are related? If Obama was using the IRS as his attack dog to target conservative groups in the lead up time to the 2012 elections, wouldn't that scandal dwarf Watergate? Watergate was Republican operatives breaking into the Watergate Hotel to spy on Democrats during the DNC correct?

I am seriously not sure I grasp the details on either side, so this was meant to represent my current potentially highly flawed understanding of events. Based on my understanding, this has a potential to be FAR bigger than Watergate. It defies reason that Obama didn't know about any of this when his Chief of Staff did. What sort of an incompetent Chief of Staff wouldn't tell his boss about this scandal last year when it came out? And that is the BEST-case scenario as far as I can tell. Incompetence. But is that all it is? I strongly doubt it, based upon my understanding of the events.
 
Mich,

So you can find a liberal journalist who gives the benefit of the doubt to Cummings instead of Issa? What a shock. Next time the shoe is on the other foot, I'll find some self-serving piece by Charles Krauthammer, and we'll see how persuasive you find it.

Bring the investigation. It might implicate Obama, and it might not, but somebody decided to engage in viewpoint discrimination. We need to know who that person was. We need names. If it was liberal groups, you and paso wouldn't rest until you knew.
 
Maybe it was Obama?

You are completely making this up. If we just investigate for a few more years, we might find something somewhere. What a joke you are. Seriously, this is partisan ******** and you would know it if you weren't a hack just like pretty much every single right wing nitwit on this BBS.

How exactly does Obama order anything in the IRS? Please explain this first. This is where your inane conspiracy "theory" or desire to investigate ends. The IRS is independent of the White House. It does not answer to the White House. No one there was hired or fired by the White House. The head person was a Bush appointee who served his five year term. You cannot get past this really simple hurdle.

Investigate away on your latest and greatest bigger than Watergate scandal you partisan hack. Enjoy the demographic tidal wave especially in 2020.

Aloha!
 
Paso, who ordered or directed the IRS employees to have bias against these groups? Has a name been named? Can't say I've heard one. Can't say I've read where one of the low level employees has come out to say they did it all on their own initiative. So who is responsible for this behavior? You sound certain about it, so could you fill me in?
 
I love the McCarthy innuendo. Do you have a list of names in your pocket too?

Is your argument seriously that Obama has to prove that he did not tell the IRS to target the Tea Party? That is a very persuasive argument there. The burden is on Hilary or Obama to disprove any bit of nonsense that the Right can invent on Beghazi or any one of a dozen invented "scandals" of the week.

Have any of you read the IRS IG report? I would bet $1,000 that you have not. Why would I know this?
 
Monahorns is correct. To add to his points, we also have the people who were DOING the audits saying "this came from the top" by which they meant it came from IRS upper management in DC. That doesn't automatically implicate Obama, but it does leave the question open, particularly when you add the fact that the IRS chief visited the White House 157 times over a 3 year span. Compare that to 5 visits under Bush during 8 years and there are at least question marks. Might it have been all related to Obamacare as claimed? It is possible, but it seems highly unlikely, particularly when this was not the first answer given but later became THE answer that they are using. It is all quite suspicious and an investigation is not merely partisan politics, it is quite reasonable.
 
As for that magic determination of who is precisely responsible, this is what the IRS IG report had to say:In reply to:
 
And if any one of you is not a partisan hack (ha - as if), you would apologize to me and tell me that I was right all along. There is zero proof that this touched the White House and it originated with some very low level employees in Cincinnati. How on earth did I know all this when Issa was making wild and reckless accusations of misconduct left and right?

I will be the really blue colored guy in the corner holding my breathe.

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This is exactly what makes this forum so grotesque. Most of the posters on here would feel comfortable at a John Birch Society meeting. Being a "reasonable" member of the John Birch Society does not mean you are some mainstream person.

The IRS IG report (which was non-partisan and actually uncovered the issue) found that it was not caused by outside influences and traced it to some low-level employees in Cincinnati. The rest of this nonsense is invented by the media (most prominently Faux News, but others too) and Issa. Both are known liars and should have zero credibility. There is nothing on Obama and this **** is inane. I am not surprised that you guys want to get to the bottom of it though.

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paso, you are the one acting like a hack. you keep acting us to admit that there is "no proof" but why would we admit to something that we never claimed as if we were reversing our position? i have not seen one person on this thread claim there was "proof" that this goes all the way to Obama. We have only said that it is reasonable to consider the possibility. Your ranting and raving about things we never said says MUCH about you and very little about us. Of course there is no "proof" yet or we wouldn't debating about the "possibility." The Cincy workers claimed that it was coming from above and from high ups.

For the record, I watch about 1 hour of Fox News per annum and live on another continent. I also don't think any of my information came from Fox online news or written press. I know that Peggy Noonan (who endorsed Obama in 2008, but is a true moderate) has had MUCh to say about this. To be honest, I don't think anything I have read comes from Issa either. You keep using that name and I suppose I should know who he/she is, but I don't. I have been reading articles from a variety of sources that suggest this thing stinks big time.
 
It wasn't 157 meetings. He was cleared to visit with someone 157 times. He did have a number of meetings primarily related to the Affordable Care Act. These were not meetings with Obama. As for Shulman's testimony concerning the targeting of Tea Party groups issue, he has already told Congress that:In reply to:
 
I guess those Articles of Impeachment for Benghazi need to be amended to add this awful thing. The proof is almost there. Who exactly is left to investigate in all of this? You have every single person at the IRS (including the former Commissioner who was appointed by Bush and served his entire term) saying that nobody outside of the IRS was involved and yet we are dealing with a Watergate-like scandal that just needs a couple more investigations to break open like a magic pinata?

Do you have any idea how Glenn Beck like nuts this is? I am sure you don't since you guys have the self-awareness of oh Glenn Beck.

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