Chicago Hate Crime?

Clean

Clean

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Four African-Americans tied up and tortured a white 18 year old; duct taping his mouth shut, kicking and hitting him, cutting him with knives, making him drink toilet water, and all the while they shouted "F--- white people" and "F--- Donald Trump". They held him captive for two days. Oh, and I've heard that he's mentally disabled to make matters worse.

The police found out about it because one of the people involved made a video of it and posted it on her Facebook account. So, it may be that the perpetrators are mentally disabled too. They can be heard saying that they want the video to go viral.

The Chicago police have taken the four into custody and ARE DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT TO CHARGE THEM WITH A HATE CRIME! So, the Chicago police may be also be mentally disabled. Can you imagine the outcry if the races were reversed? Those four wouldn't see freedom for a long, long time.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Have blacks ever been charged with hate crimes against whites? Will Obama stick his nose in this? It is his old home town of Chicago. Will he condemn it? I guarantee you if Eric Holder were still Attorney General, they wouldn't be charged with a hate crime.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/0...up-beaten-as-captors-yell-f-white-people.html
 
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Clean, you already know the answer. It's impossible for a black person to commit a hate crime. I thought everyone knew that.
 
According to the FBI, about 24 of hate crime offenders are black, so they do get charged. Link. Are prosecutors as quick to try to bring hate crime charges against black defendants as they are against white defendants? Probably not.
 
Horrific violence. Hate crime or just assault/kidnapping, these perps need to spend a looong time getting their attitude adjusted. I think we need to send today's equivalent of St. Patrick to Chicago.
 
The media coverage of this crime is interesting to watch too. It's falling exactly as you'd think it would:

Yahoo - Didn't make the front page, but it is lowballed on the News page
MSNBC - has no mention (too obsessed with fueling the Trump resistance)
Daily Beast - no coverage
Daily Caller - big article
Fox - covered it

Conservative sites covered it. Liberal sites (MSM) ignore it. Same is true on Twitter.
 
Maybe coverage has changed. It was the first story on my Yahoo feed at about 8:30 a.m.
 
It was not being covered earlier and is being covered a lot now. It was reported from legitimate sources (CBS) yesterday evening and was very slow in being picked up by national media.

Apparently the victim was special needs. For all the animosity they have towards one another because of their skin colors, these four and Dylan Roof have a lot in common. For starters, they make sure to go after the most vulnerable victims where the likelihood of the victim fighting back is low. Roof changed his target from the college of charleston to a church bible study and these four picked a special needs victim out. Roof and these four just want to terrorize the vulnerable and use their personal hate as a justification. Roof needs the death penalty and these four need full sentences for any crime for which they can be successfully prosecuted.

As much as the right and left want to claim big racist/liberal conspiracies and fight the battles of the 20th century, the 21st century problem is sick individuals or sick unorganized small groups that latch on to race/religious/political hate as an outlet to carry out their own sick fantasies. I do not know the answer to solve this. I do believe that people are more focussed on 20th century answers (and 19th century answers in the case of removing confederate flags and statues) than finding 21st century answers for 21st century problems.

What is driving these mass shootings and rogue indivudal or small group acts of terror? Is it social media? Is it a lack of mental illness treatment? Is it poor schools? Is it hateful and overly partisan political rhetoric? I am not sure.

I do not believe it is statues, flags, civil rights movements (see BLM) or wealth inequality or protests or other things that we have had for quite some time without causing constant attacks.
 
It was the lead on CNN's site this morning and first appears yesterday evening. CNN appears to have the video.

The Chicago police seem to be doing the right thing in both uncovering this crime but also investigating it for a potential hate crime.
 
Htown77 said:
As much as the right and left want to claim big racist/liberal conspiracies and fight the battles of the 20th century, the 21st century problem is sick individuals or sick unorganized small groups that latch on to race/religious/political hate as an outlet to carry out their own sick fantasies. I do not know the answer to solve this. I do believe that people are more focussed on 20th century answers (and 19th century answers in the case of removing confederate flags and statues) than finding 21st century answers for 21st century problems.

What is driving these mass shootings and rogue indivudal or small group acts of terror? Is it social media? Is it a lack of mental illness treatment? Is it poor schools? Is it hateful and overly partisan political rhetoric? I am not sure.

I do not believe it is statues, flags, civil rights movements (see BLM) or wealth inequality or protests or other things that we have had for quite some time without causing constant attacks.
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Great commentary.

I believe the world has transitioned to a social and economic environment where large percentages of populations can't find meaning in their day to day life. For a lot of men, they are unable to find a niche (job) that allows them to fulfill a traditional male role of provider or start a family. Others have allowed technology/entertainment to take the place of active participation (Why exercise when I can play a virtual game?).

Suicide rates and depression are up as are the numbers who take anti-depressants and medication in general; much of which mask depression induced by not having meaningful work or fulfillment in some area.
 
If this is not a hate crime, what is?

Did these losers do this out of love for this man? Looks like obvious hatred. How does the CPD even have a leg to stand on saying they are investigating whether it's a hate crime? Anyone who says it is other than a hate crime is a loon.
 
Htown77 said:
the 21st century problem is sick individuals or sick unorganized small groups that latch on to race/religious/political hate as an outlet to carry out their own sick fantasies.
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The difference is the small groups always seem to be black. They feed off of each other. I can't remember the last time a small group of whites attacked a black person. I can only think of the horrific Jasper deal. One individual like Dylan or the 4 that were exposed yesterday are very bad. But there seems to be an attack on getting the whitey that voted for Trump more and more. Another incident that happened this week that wasn't violent but still not cool is a lady was trapped in the snow. A black guy pulled over to help her. When he to approach her car he noticed she had a Trump bumper sticker on the back. He walked up to her and said "Get yo President to help you out." He then left her and went back and bragged what he did on social media. Where the hell is our civility?

Seattle Husker said:
The Chicago police seem to be doing the right thing in both uncovering this crime but also investigating it for a potential hate crime.
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How hard is it to determine if it's a hate crime (F- white people) and politically motivated when they were mocking this poor guy for being a Trump voter. There's nothing the investigation has to prove. I can't think of any situation that would change that unless it was a fake video. But cutting his scalp with a knife and drawing blood doesn't seem too fake to me. The video clearly shows their intentions with their own words. I just don't know where we are as a society when we try to tip toe around because of their race. Set an example of these guys that this crap won't be tolerated. The same goes for Dylan. Hating because of a race can't be tolerated.
 
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I expect lawyers in the prosecutors office will decide how this crime is prosecuted. I've never lived in Chicago, but I know the DA's office would decide in Denton County Texas.
 
In America, the predominant narrative in the white community is that when an individual fails it is due to the individual's failure to make good choices, work hard, etc. Hence the white person is more prone to internalize dissatisfaction and become depressed. If he acts out it may take the form of a mass murder where society as a whole is the target rather than another race.

In the black community, failure is often linked to past slavery, discrimination, white privaledge, etc. Therefore instead of internalizing blame a significant percentage of blacks have a ready made enemy in the white man to lash out at. Out of this comes the Nation of Islam, Black lives matter, videos on YouTube of black teenagers knocking out homeless white people and the like.
 
Well, hallelujah. According to a Fox News tweet, the four teens will be charged with a hate crime. Go figure!
 
I35 said:
How hard is it to determine if it's a hate crime (F- white people) and politically motivated when they were mocking this poor guy for being a Trump voter. There's nothing the investigation has to prove. I can't think of any situation that would change that unless it was a fake video. But cutting his scalp with a knife and drawing blood doesn't seem too fake to me. The video clearly shows their intentions with their own words.
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We live in a fast food world. They were charged with a hate crime within 36hrs of the arrest and that's not fast enough for some.:facepalm:
 
The problem with hate crime enhancements is that they create yet an extra hurdle that has to be cleared in obtaining, not only the jury verdict, but also getting an affirmation on appeal. Most jurisdictions automatically have enhancement provisions that elevate the level of a felony offense when the action is committed against the elderly or the disabled.

Also, if I recall correctly, Illinois is already an 85% State, meaning they require 85% of the sentence to be served before a release can occur.

Sad thing is that they are also a State notoriously weak in their sentencing structure. That conduct would have been a first degree felony here in Texas, meaning 99 or life was on the table. My guess is Illinois will be doing well to get 20 years out of them...
 
One interesting tidbit from the CNN write up was that the attackers were concerned their video was not getting enough views on facebook. Attention seemed to be a factor in Roof's case as well. I do not think it is the sole factor or cause, but I listed social media earlier because I am wondering if notoriety is partially what these individuals are after. The internet and its ability to make regular people instantly famous has had a profound impact on society. I am curious if the chance for instant worldwide notoriety is a factor in the rise in number of acts of terror by deranged individuals since the 90s. Maybe it is and maybe it is not, but I think it is something worth looking at and considering.
 
Htown77 said:
One interesting tidbit from the CNN write up was that the attackers were concerned their video was not getting enough views on facebook. Attention seemed to be a factor in Roof's case as well. I do not think it is the sole factor or cause, but I listed social media earlier because I am wondering if notoriety is partially what these individuals are after. The internet and its ability to make regular people instantly famous has had a profound impact on society. I am curious if the chance for instant worldwide notoriety is a factor in the rise in number of acts of terror by deranged individuals since the 90s. Maybe it is and maybe it is not, but I think it is something worth looking at and considering.
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I think the desire for fame is pretty universal. Now it's easier to attain with social media. People that would commit crimes or embarrassing acts to get notoriety are deranged.
 
The problem with hate crime enhancements is that they create yet an extra hurdle that has to be cleared in obtaining, not only the jury verdict, but also getting an affirmation on appeal. Most jurisdictions automatically have enhancement provisions that elevate the level of a felony offense when the action is committed against the elderly or the disabled.
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They are also a problem because thoughts should not be crimes. Even despicable thoughts. The action itself should be enough to warrant the proper punishment. If it's not, then THAT needs to be fixed.

So, the Chicago police may be also be mentally disabled.
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I think the Laquan McDonald case already proved that about the Chicago PD.
 
When liberals attack the police and prosecutors for not prosecuting white-on-black crimes, conservatives leap to the defense of the men in blue. They call the liberals racist for even suggesting that law enforcement might harbor bias against blacks. But when the shoe is on the other foot, some self-righteous conservatives attack the police and prosecutors for not prosecuting a black-on-white crime fast enough to satisfy their bloodthirst.

What happened is what almost always happens -- the police and the prosecutors did their jobs effectively and race-neutrally. Anyone who complained without all the facts should do some soul searching about whether they are being fair to the police all the time, or only when fairness suits their political agenda.
 
Seattle Husker said:
We live in a fast food world. They were charged with a hate crime within 36hrs of the arrest and that's not fast enough for some
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2 things: 1) Not when they are clearly stating their hate crimes on video. That's like having a video of OJ slicing two throats. 2) I'm not sure it would have even been within a week if not for the outrage. They started out saying it's kids (then corrected himself) adults doing stupid stuff. WTH?

NJlonghorn said:
When liberals attack the police and prosecutors for not prosecuting white-on-black crimes, conservatives leap to the defense of the men in blue. They call the liberals racist for even suggesting that law enforcement might harbor bias against blacks. But when the shoe is on the other foot, some self-righteous conservatives attack the police and prosecutors for not prosecuting a black-on-white crime fast enough to satisfy their bloodthirst.
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Show me a video where a bunch of white kids kidnapped and gagged a black kid that's mentally disabled, torturing him with a knife slicing his scalp and chocking him while yelling f the N's and harassing him for voting for Obama the first black President? Are you seriously saying that Republicans wouldn't be outraged at this? All the conservatives want is law and order no matter who it is. I'm for the police when they are dealing with the Michael Browns of the world and the police have to protect themselves with self defense. But I'm also for the police to have their day in court when there is evidence of corruption.
 
I35 said:
Are you seriously saying that Republicans wouldn't be outraged at this?
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Of course they'd be outraged. When crimes like this occur, outrage isn't a conservative or liberal things -- it is a human thing. These crimes were horrendous, as was extensively reported on both liberal and conservative news sources.

But conservatives would not be jumping to conclusions about all the wrong things they think the cops were probably going to do. In fact, they would be be jumping down the throats of anyone who dared to criticize how the cops were handling the situation.
 
Clean said:
So, it may be that the perpetrators are mentally disabled too. They can be heard saying that they want the video to go viral.
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The Internet and social media have become such a second-hand thing, it's almost considered a world divorced from reality, I think. I would completely believe that none of these kids ever once thought someone who disagreed with them would ever see this video - all their friends are up for this kind of revolution, so why would anyone not rally to them? They certainly wouldn't think the cops were on social media, because they're cops! It's just a complete lack of thought, and it infects a lot of people on social media every day.

Htown77 said:
The internet and its ability to make regular people instantly famous has had a profound impact on society. I am curious if the chance for instant worldwide notoriety is a factor in the rise in number of acts of terror by deranged individuals since the 90s. Maybe it is and maybe it is not, but I think it is something worth looking at and considering.
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It's absolutely true, and when all your relationships that are meaningful to you are carried out in social media channels or on your smart phone, that's what you're concerned with. It doesn't matter to you what the guy walking down the street would think of you. It's what the person who followed your page would think.

Out on the street you're a nobody, but on Facebook or Snapchat you can be a superstar. And the people who follow you are almost universally in agreement with you, so it's a great way to get affirmation no matter how stupid your viewpoint.
 
It is true. We are all in such a rush to make our point, that we jump to condemnation without giving the authorities a minute to process what's going on. That's probably been my biggest beef with BLM. They react so aggressively in form and time. They may be right in some instances to be upset/outraged but they have been wrong in many more cases and it is picked up and amplified by the internet world as though it is all fact.

I
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
It is true. We are all in such a rush to make our point, that we jump to condemnation without giving the authorities a minute to process what's going on. That's probably been my biggest beef with BLM. They react so aggressively in form and time. They may be right in some instances to be upset/outraged but they have been wrong in many more cases and it is picked up and amplified by the internet world as though it is all fact.

I
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Bingo. If you have 1 valid complaint but you join that with 9 (or 99) invalid complaints, your entire body of 10 (or 100) complaints makes you look like a fringe lunatic. That doesn't change the fact that your 1 complaint is valid, but it makes it harder to convince people.
 
NJlonghorn said:
Bingo. If you have 1 valid complaint but you join that with 9 (or 99) invalid complaints, your entire body of 10 (or 100) complaints makes you look like a fringe lunatic. That doesn't change the fact that your 1 complaint is valid, but it makes it harder to convince people.
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The same is true, btw, about people who accuse Hillary Clinton of everything under the sun. A small fraction of the accusations are accurate, and that is plenty to paint her as crooked. But zealots join those valid accusations with hundreds of invalid ones, thereby inadvertently diluting the point and driving people to disbelieve even the valid points.
 
I would completely believe that none of these kids ever once thought someone who disagreed with them would ever see this video - all their friends are up for this kind of revolution, so why would anyone not rally to them?
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And the people who follow you are almost universally in agreement with you, so it's a great way to get affirmation no matter how stupid your viewpoint.
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The buzzword for this lately seems to be "Echo Chamber". I would describe them as "circle jerks" but I suppose the less vulgar term fits as well. :D
 
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