Cap Trade vote on Fri

I pose this question for cap and trade proponents.

If a company manufactures parts for a windmill for power generation should they get credit for the carbon it keeps from entering the atmosphere?

If the bill has this in it then it would truely encourage green manufacturing in a cap and trade market. I haven't had time to read the legislation (~1200 pages) but my feeling is they don't give credits to a manufacturer making parts that go into renewable energy. Carbon credits are only if you reduce the amount of carbon emitted or take carbon out of the atmosphere. Seriously if this gets passed and I were a manufacturer, I would look at ways of capturing CO2 from the air and selling those credits to others. Essentially alot of money could be made by manufacturing carbonates and selling both the carbon credits and carbonates.
 
I wish there was an interest in nuclear too so you're barking up the wrong tree there. Again, this is not the absolute best answer. I don't think we've ever passed a major bill that was. It's a step though, and I believe a step in the right direction.

And it will push companies to use more alternatives, and that increase in demand will spurn more R&D, which will make the alternatives better and better as time goes by. You can't say "we'll use XXX when it's perfect" because without the demand, XXX will never get enough R&D attention to develop fully.

You may believe that the alternatives have been developed as fully as they can be, but my guess is you're very, very wrong. That would be a very different point than I think you are making.
 
I disagree. I believe we are in a recession, and not likely to exit until 2010 at the soonest. This is the last time in the world that you want to put another obstacle in front of economic activity, just to achieve some kind of AGW penance. This bill will either push energy usage to the third world (which is dirtier), or economic penalties on imports from the third world (if incorporated in the bill) will cause China to stop buying our treasury bonds (as they have threatened).

The world is sick right now, and Dr. Obama wants to cure it with leeches, to bleed out the bad blood.
 
Im willing to bet that making wind turbines and solar pannels isnt the cleanest business. Are the companies that make them going to be taxed at a higher rate? If so, it could make them more expensive.
 
notice how liberals claim to care about the poor then gladly push legislation which will make things tougher on the poor?

at any rate, i just started another thread about the possible EPA coverup of scientific data questioning the CO2 link to AGW. regardless of if that story has any teeth, it looks like this bill may struggle to pass and I am taking some solace in that fact!
 
The CBO estimate is total crap. It is only for the increased cost of energy to the consumer. I calculated the number in 10 min of internet searching. 8900 kWh/year * $0.02 /kWh = $174.44 /year (the $0.02 /kWh is based on $28 /ton CO2). It does not account for increased cost of gasoline, passing on of the energy cost by product manufacturers etc. It only is for increased cost to households passed on by higher energy rates.
 
We're not gonna hear a peep about the vote cuz of this Michael Jackson BS. My tin foil hat says he was hit by the CIA to distract the country from today's vote on this abomination!
 
because we've decided that we need to move to clean, more sustainable sources of energy. it's really that simple.
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WE have not decided anything. a vocal minority has decided it is a great idea to raise govt. revenue by raising taxes. i notice WE the people are expected to sacrifice but there is no sacrifice on the part of govt. i just had a long discussion with a friend of mine that works at NASA. This whole thing is all political bs. We cant predict the weather a week out and you want to tell me that we are going to pass legislation that is going to drastically change our economy? it alternative sources of energy was so viable, you would have a flooding of capital to start up these companies. you don't, instead, you need to take a handout from the govt. to do it. that is all i need to know.
 
Meanwhile, India and China continue to build coal plants. China will be producing twice as much CO2 as we currently do in twenty years.
 
Meanwhile, India and China continue to build coal plants. China will be producing twice as much CO2 as we currently do in twenty years.
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but...but....but.....We have to do something! Oh my God the sky is falling! We have to show them the way and be a good example because historically, they have proven themselves to be very good at following our lead....
rolleyes.gif
 
911Horn
That very benefit , giving poor people money to pay increased costs of home energy, was discussed on MSNBC.
So working people will not only pay for their increased costs but also pay for poor people's increased costs for something that does not have to happen right now while we are in crisis.
BUT who will pay for the poor people's increased costs of everything else?

This is insane at this time/


For those in support of this now explain how it has worked in Europe? Much of this bill contains the same elements that didn't work in Europe
 
Link
They have cut a deal with the farmers to give them credits in order to get the midwestern bluedog democrats to vote for the bill. I predict it will pass unless enough people actually contact their congressmen.
 
LinkWaxman added 300 pages to the bill LAST NIGHT. Nobody seems to know what is in those 300 pages. I wonder how many will read this bill before voting on it?
 
Wild Bill
Don't you wonder about people who support this in spite of knowing it till negatively affect everyone and will really hurt most who are already reeling? Who support this in spite of research that shows there is no evidence this is urgent>
any of you on here who support this bill read NavyFan's link
and then tell us you don't think MAYBE we should step back and look at this more
 
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