Big XII conference does not excuse our playing

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UTBSME98

< 25 Posts
I am so tired of the "The Big XII is the hardest conference in the nation" excuse. While I completely agree we are in a difficult conference, WE ARE TEXAS. Playing in a tough conference is no excuse not to produce winners. Few schools have the resources we have (incredible tutors, world champion weight lifting coaches, world champion BB coaches, nutritionist, academic counselors, work-out facilities, trainers...) and yet we have lost almost one-third of our games this year.

Ugh. It's time to play like the great university and state we represent.

***** and I do understand that some on this board will strongly disagree with my comment but this excuse is driving me batty *****
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we ARE in the toughest conference in the nation. What makes you think anyone of us fans are using THAT as an excuse for the way the team has been playing, especially the last couple of weeks?
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I will bet the coaches aren't using it. And as near as I recall, nobody has used that excuse. Are we confused and puzzled? Yeah. Excusing it? Not me nor anyone else I recall reading. Supportive, ALL the time, win or lose, hell, yeah. Making excuses for losses? I don't think so, especially not for losses like OSU at home and last night against KSU.
 
What I am talking about is after every loss I hear on the post game show (when I can make it to the car after walking from the drum) someone mention about how tough the Big XII conference is. Coach G will also mention it in her after game critique. All I am saying is I am frustrated at the losses and I hate it when the toughness of the Big XII follows a comment on a loss.

That's it.
 
The problem I am having! Is what happen to the team I seen in December. Theres just no energy or passion for Basketball. There no fight in them. I watched every team we played lately out hustle us. And most of the teams are slower then us. Look to me like most of our players are scared. We want even attack the basket anymore. Please start playing your players that will be with you next year. I really wish we could get some them out of there early, that might have some years lefted.I am so disappointed in what I seen last nite.
 
My guess is that you would hear the same comments if you listened to post-game for the schools we beat.

The reality is that you simply cannot say what should really be said during the interview...can you imagine the outcry if Gail were to come out and say "I knew 10 minutes in it was going to be a long night. Once again we failed to show any heart. I don't know what else to do. The girls have talent but damned if I know what they do with it once they get to the facility. And excuse me Craig, but I need to cut this interview short so I can go throw up..."
 
OP, I share the same frustrations as you. We are TEXAS and it's painfully upsetting to see the Lady Horns lose.

Getting swept by the Aggies? Ouch. Getting pummeled by KSU? Obliterated by Baylor? Annihilated by Oklahoma? Destroyed by Oklahoma State?

What started off as a promising season ended up a train wreck. OU will win this weekend. I just don't see the team putting up a fight, especially at home.

I don't see how Coach G will be able to recruit the best of the best with performances seen as of late.
 
for some reason some of our highly recruited players just don't get "it" when it comes to playing big time college basketball - being a high school star or aau star is different - some have no problem adjusting, some do - we have some that just can't bring it everyday and it is driving the coaching staff crazy as well as the previous coaching staff - Coach G has her hands full because to win big time takes big time players who will go all out all the time - some of the jr. hi mistakes our very experienced players are making (unforced turn overs) kind of sum up this team - the recovery to contend again is still a big challenge - we have to get a post and power forward to start the road back to the top
 
I don’t post here often, but I have been reading this board for a long, long time. I am also a long time season ticket holder and have rarely missed a home game for years. I watch roads games on TV or the Internet whenever possible. My point is just that while I am not a basketball expert I have watched a ton of UT women’s basketball…..And, I find people’s perceptions to be very interesting.

When this team was struggling a few years ago the most popular opinion was that coach Conradt was past her time. Her ideas were outdated and she didn’t develop her players. The talent was there, we needed a new coach…….Now that we have a new coach and the overall talent is arguably improved the popular opinion is that these players are not working hard, have no passion, or (heaven forbid) are more interested in an education than basketball.

I have no interest in a comparison of coaches. I had no problem with coach Conradt. I have no problem with coach G. In fact, if coach Conradt was leaving there was no one I would have rather had as her replacement. I haven’t changed my mind about that.

Keep things in perspective. The complaint here is really that Texas is only one of the top women’s basketball programs in the country – rather than one of the elite programs. I agree that Texas should be an elite program. But, it isn’t exactly like the program has become an embarrassment.

I think that if everyone is honest with themselves they know that the “problem” is not that these players do not care. Some of the mistakes that have been so frustrating have seemed to be the result of trying to do too much. Yes, there are mental mistakes. But, don’t forget that the coaching change has been a huge transition for the players. This team has not yet finished its second year with this staff. They have been through this period of change and are still a top 20 program.

Part of what this team needs appears to be to lighten up and have some fun. I think their fans need the same, and that would also help the team. A big crowd – I remember when upper level seating was normal – and a loud crowd can help win games…….

And, it can help recruiting. And this is the real issue. The Texas roster is full of excellent basketball players. They are all some of the best women’s players in the country. They should be proud of what they have accomplished, and look forward to even more in the future. But, this team lacks a truly elite player. There is no one on this roster who has the ability to consistently take over a game.

If you put either of Kat or EA on the same team with an Ashley Paris, Candice Parker, or Maya Moore – or Clarissa Davis – they would have incredible success. (Others too – I just picked two names.) But, everyone on this Texas team needs everyone around them also playing at their best in order to contend with other top programs. Texas does not have a player who can put the team on her shoulders and carry them game after game. Elite women’s college basketball teams always have at least one of those players.

This is not intended as slight to the existing players. It is actually more of a testament to what they have accomplished as a group. We should appreciate the hard work and commitment on their part.

I also understand that they could play better as a group. I’m just trying to keep this in perspective. It looks to me as though this is a program one elite player away from a huge step forward – and a team for which a lot of the mistakes come from trying too hard individually, which is a very easy trap to find yourself suck in.

So – why have we not landed the elite players? Great school academically. Great place to live. Great facilities…….Two things…..we have a great coaching staff, but they are just establishing themselves in this part of the country and with Texas. Give that a couple of years before any panic sets in.

The other is about the fans. Kids want to play in front of huge, loud crowds. That may not be THE deciding factor, but it does make a difference. There needs to be some excitement. So, before we bash the kids and the program lets get to the game, take people with us, be loud, and support our hard-working players. Rather than gripe lets try to create an atmosphere conducive to success, and where others – players and fans – would want to play.

Take off the orange shades and notice that these players do not have all of the natural gifts it takes to be a truly elite player. They are excellent basketball players because of hard work and commitment. Come out Sunday and let them know that you recognize and appreciate their efforts…..It doesn’t even really matter who wins….cause OU still sucks.
 
Outlookdude...you should post more often! Well thought out and well said.

I hope that we will have a couple of go-to players coming in next year. It sounds as if Reed will be one and hopefully if we land Hill she will be the other. Not too optimistic about Bone but I'm holding out hope until she makes an announcement.
 
Outlook dude - really good points. Thanks for your perspective. Come back more often!

So Hook 'em Horns. Beat OU and let's make a run in OK City.
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Outlook, appreciate your comments. I agree for the most part with what you say. I'm willing to give coach G a chance to get her program in place and I'll keep showing up and keep bringing other fans to the games.
However, for me it was much easier to "love" the team when I knew them better. When Coach Conradt was coaching, I often went to practice, and I always went to "fast break" after home games. I felt I knew much more what was on coach C's mind and how hard the kids were working. I could support them through a lot of thin years.

Coach G has a different philosophy. I feel that it's harder to keep up the support- win or lose. Add in that the team is not winning, or inconsistently winning. I'm thinking I may feel differently when they are winning more consistently, but for now, I'm not as connected to this team as I was to previous teams. It's easier to unplug and not support them like I have in the past.

Here's hoping for the future success of the team.
 
Bingo, basket. I didn't mention that because I don't believe it has anything to do with wining and losing. But, that makes a huge, huge difference. It's more like a business now. I'm willing to wait and see if the business helps the team and the players. But, it doesn't help me as a fan at all.
 
Outlookdude. great original post. I'm beginning to wonder though if we are starting to have a "problem" with it being more like a business now. I've been hearing a lot of grumbling this year from some long time season ticket holders in our section. I know personally for me after next year's class graduates I will not be as invested but that does not mean I will not support this team as I know others will.
 
okay, this bothers me.

outlookdude has a great FIRST post for THIS thread. i took that post seriously...great wording, great thoughts. IMO this thread should've stopped right there.
 
Outlookdude's original post and the subsequent responses are spot on. The fact is there are grumblings among long time season ticket holders regarding the lack of interaction with the team. Coach G's aloofness and sequestering of the players from fan interaction has made some fans become less emotionally invested in the team as was cited above.

Is this business-like approach beneficial for Texas women's basketball? Only time will tell. However, other Big XII teams, Iowa State, Baylor, A&M to name a few, have coaching staffs that cultivate fan interest through meet-and-greets, luncheons, etc. Those schools also have higher attendance then we do. Coincidence?

It's worth noting that when Coach G first arrived she stressed in her press conference that "it was all about [people] connections with her." In my view, that should include the fans as well--"When in Rome...."
 
Now that I have had some sleep let me take a another shot at this...I should have never gone to this "business" subject, but now that I have.....I think fans are going through a lot of what the players have gone through the past two seasons.....Change.....But, if it has been difficult for us as fans consider what it must be like for the players.

I do miss fastbreak. I sent coach G an email before last season trying to explain why it was important. I was not surprised that she seemed to not care about my opinion. This coaching staff is also facing change, just from the other side. They have to have the commitment to stick with what they believe is best even with the entire state of Texas telling them that is not the way we do it here.

I don't like having the team held at a distance from us. It does nothing for me. But, this is not about me. It is about making Texas women's basketball an elite program again. What would help me is about 10,000 screaming fans Sunday afternoon.

What I know is that what we were doing was not working. There was a small group of loyal fans, but not enough to fill the seats. The home crowds were (still are) much too passive and quiet. Like most people I don't like change. But, you can't get anywhere different if you keep going in the same direction........and it doesn't matter if your on the right track - if you stay in the same place the train will run you over......I hate change, but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing today that you did yesterday and expecting the reults to be different.......oh, I'm on a roll now.

Just one more....OU still sucks.
 
How is it that Duke was able to pack the stadium with thousands of rabid fans when Coach G used the same business-like approach at Duke, assuming that she took the same approach there? Can you imagine the Duke fans showing up and being lethargic because they don't get a warm, fuzzy feeling from the coach?
 
If you're referring to the student section that is right behind the scorer's table and prominently displayed during televised games when Duke played NC or Maryland then yes, they could be characterized as rabid fans for those two rivalries. Note the distinctions: students and rivalries. Given the context of the post/topic in discussion this equates to apples and oranges.

In addition, this is the Big XII, not the ACC--a "basketball" conference for all intents and purposes. It takes a little more effort to sell basketball at Texas than the ACC.
 
Exactly, TXtoCO. What will pack the stadium with rabid fans is an elite program. I don't personally like the business-like approach. But, if that is what it takes to improve this program, then so be it. These are two different issues - winning vs fan interaction - but they overlap. We can do our part to help by putting butts in seats and showing our support when we are there.

I could go on and on about this. The reason I rarely post is that once I start I never know when to shut up. But, it comes down to this........Coach G has a responsibility to do what she feels is best for the program. Fans have a responsibility to support the players and the program....especially on game day.

I think it is OK to say that there are things we feel could be better.....As long as that is done in support of the program and with the intent of improving it for everyone.

If there are a lot of people who feel that the program would be better with fastbreak as it was in the past then they should be telling coach G......with letters and emails, not on this board which I seriously doubt she ever reads.....and by explaining how it would benefit the program, not by explaining what is wrong with her approach or with threats about not coming to games. I don't know that in this case it would matter. But, it always works better to tell someone who can do something about it.

For now, we have a game tomorrow with one more chance to show our support for a very hard working group of young women.....and OU still sucks.
 
great posts outlookdude....agree 100% with your posts. elite programs brings fans to the games. period. i trust Coach G to do whatever it takes to make Texas an elite program.

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The real key to getting an excited crowd is to get the student base involved. Maybe Coach G needs to do more to reach out to the student body?

I can guarantee you that when Griner hits the court at Baylor that the stands will be filled every night with exuberant fans because the product that they will be offered is exciting. With talent and success comes a larger fan base.

I've been to several CU games and they are very interactive with their fans. The players hang around after every game and sign autographs until every last fan has gotten their program signed, yet their attendance is still low because they don't consistently win.

I think it would be interesting to hear from someone who supports the University of New Mexico Lady Lobos to see what sort of interaction they have with the team and the coaching staff since they have such an enthusiastic crowd for both the women's and men's programs.
 
outlookdude, welcome. Hope you post more often. Excellent posts.

Well, let me chime in with my two cents about the changes we have seen about access to the players and, I assume, the coaches. About the only thing I miss is the open practices but I knew that, pretty much whoever replaced Coach Conradt would not keep the open practices. More and more coaches are going to that. I miss watching the players and the instruction they receive and being able to compare that with the way they actually execute it in games.

The personal contact with players I don’t miss because I never tried to have a personal contact with players. That’s not who I am and I never needed that contact to root for them to do well, both as a team and as individuals. I have talked with enough of other fans to realize that is one of the things they most miss about the change. I look at it this way: I have never met any of the football players but that does not lessen my admiration and pride in what they do. Nor does it affect my support of the team, mainly because they are representing my school and doing it well. By that, I don’t mean wins and losses although I really like it when they win, but as representatives of the university as student athletics. Frankly, I feel much more comfortable approaching Coach G and the other current coaches that I did the previous staff and discussing recruiting needs (nothing specific because I’m wary of crossing any NCAA lines by accident), the team’s play and upcoming opponents. The only exception is Cathy McDonald. For whatever reason, I always felt that I could approach her and speak with her. Still do.

I realize that we don’t have a go-to play like Maya Moore at UConn. We do have outstanding players but with this team, the whole is greater than the pieces but they are not playing that way right now. When they do, they don’t miss not having that go-to player. They all share that role. When they don’t play together, it does not work. As both we fans and the team has seen.

This is a business. Consider what Coach G is being paid. Results are expected. And she has 20+ years developing her method of coaching, including 15 years as the head coach. It has worked for her and, other than some adjustments, she does not see a reason to change. And she has made some concessions although not as much as we would like or have been used to. This is still a team in transition although further along than last season’s. There is improvement although there is also regression. I don’t think that the ebb and flow of transition was considered too much, especially given last season’s success and the number of players we had returning. The team does seem to be struggling more this season when they run into a valley. But the highs are also much higher.

I don’t recall ever breaking 8000+ in attendance for a game the last few seasons. That has happened twice this season. While some have said that happened only because of supporters for the opponents, there has been a significant jump in attendance since Coach G came in. Will this continue to grow if the team does not win? Well, we brought Coach G here to win and depending on how this team does in the NCAAs, this trend could continue. I don’t remember seeing both student sections with so many students once conference play started. That has been good to see and, more importantly, to hear.

We have one elite player (Cokie Reed) coming in and one of the top PGs in Lauren Flores. They will help deepen the talent in the post and backcourt. We continue to get players like those and the wins will come when they matter most, in the NCAAs. And no, I don’t like losing to aggie or OU or Baylor or OSU or Tech, especially when I believe that, at worse, we should split with aggie, Baylor, and OU while sweeping OSU and Tech.
 
Out of curiosity, how many fans would generally attend the Fast Break events? I never had the pleasure of attending one of these events. Was the attendance such that by not having it that a large number of fans were affected when it was eliminated?
 
Like the game crowds fastbreak would vary depending on the game and the outcome. I never tried to guess a number, but I would think at times there were several hundred people there.

I did go to fastbreak on a regular basis. Like babhorn I did not feel any need to spend personal time with the players - or the coaches either. It was still a very good experience, and I do miss that. Oh well.

What I think is a shame is the loss of exposure to the young girls who would go to fastbreak. I had two daughters who grew up with that experience. I know what a difference it made to them, and what great role models they found there. I could tell stories all day about the benefit from that standpoint. But, that has nothing to do with winning. In my dream world it wouldn't be ONLY about winning, it would be about winning and making a difference.

But, no one can be all things to all people. If the program is better for (mostly) dropping fastbreak then that is the way it should be.
 
Outlookdude, I really enjoy reading your posts, but is it necessary to end most of your posts with '...and OU sucks"?

I understand that the rivalry between both schools especially football trickles down to other sports, but seeing you end your well thought out posts with that last snippet just negates in my view what you have done so well in presenting your thoughts.

I'm no fan of Oklahoma either but just think these little jabs are better in the football boards. OU is miles ahead of Texas in terms of the state of the current program.

We need everyone to be classy and supporting of our Lady Horns, even in times such as now. I admit, I got a little carried away with my choice of verbs in how I describe the losses to A&M, Oklahoma, Baylor, Oklahoma State and Kansas State.

That was merely my frustrations on how I feel personally about the state of the Texas' program. Texas deserves better, and to be second fiddle for several years now is really disheartening.

Bringing in Coach G is definitely a step in the right direction. Being in the NCAA tournament for 2 straight years after a couple of no shows is a step in the right direction. Signing Cokie Reed on board is a step in the right direction. There are just more that needs to happen in order for UT to claim a place among the Elite.

It won't be easy, but if there is anyone that can do it, it would be Coach G and her staff.

Hook 'Em.
 
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