Big Bang

mia, i am fine with statement 1 but statement 2 has the same problem that all of your statements on this have had. you have not shown it to be the case. you are merely asserting it.....
 
no....i don't. i think that is the fundamental point at which we disagree. i don't believe the outcome is "fixed" in the way you do, only that God happens to know what I will freely choose. it is not at all difficult for me to imagine such a scenario.
 
The post that you did not answer completely (you just cherry picked), was on page 6 and started with: "Let's start at the bottom and work our way up." I don't need you to answer it now, as this thread could benefit from some brevity.

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mia, if by "assured" you mean that they will happen....i am fine with that. but you and i have different ideas about why they are assured. i believe they are assured in the sense that God's knowledge about the future free will actions of free agents is correct, but no that they are "fixed" in the sense that he is the causal agent.
 
mia, i think your premises are false and limited by your understanding of the universe. i think there may be more simultaneity than we are comfortable with or aware of. in the sense that God knows the future choices of his free agent creatures simultaneous to there becoming "true." in other words, he doesn't cause them but he is aware of them nonetheless even though they are in the future.
 
I don't think that Coelacanth or MOP will ever be convinced that free will is logically incompatible with omniscience. A question for you both.

Pretend for an instant that you were convinced of this logic. Would that have consequences for your faith?

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well, lost my connection, let me try again.

It seems that this thread has gone off on a philosophical tangent. I want to try to redirect.

Here is the way I see/understand it.

Before the Big Bang, all of the matter and engery that exists was contained in a tiny compact and dense space. If that was the case then what would have caused the Big Bang. There are only 2 options as I see it: Either something internally happened which caused an instability and the 'Bang' or an external force/agent/cause acted upon the matter/energy to cause the 'Bang.' So either what would have happened internally? Or what external factor would have acted upon all the matter and energy that exists?
 
GT, you are so transparent in your anti-religious bias.....Coelecanth is showing great patience with both you and mia who refuse to engage his arguments. his arguments are quite sound and yet you keep reverting to poor argument fallacies. honest question: are you just not capable of defending your position? that is what it looks like. you know what you want to believe so you assert it over and over without any reference to logic or to premises that build to your conclusion. why not try to build premises towards a conclusion. my suspicion is that if you attempted an actual syllogism you would see how fallacious your argument is in the first place.

by the way, why the reference to brickhorn? is he posting on these boards under a different name now?
 
It's not the believers I have a problem with MOP, it's the anti-science and anti-rationality that you represent that I take issue with. Believe in Christ's meassage of love for our neighbors and I applaud you. Believe in a 6,000 year old earth and I laugh at you. Try to teach my children that creationism/intelligent design is science and I oppose you.

Oh, and I wasn't supposed to mention anything about Brickhorn. Please ignore that slip!

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