Big 12 conference discussing two seven-team divisions beginning in 2023

[nashhorn]

Me too Moon, liked Rawhide the best back then.

 

[1sahorn]

My family watched Wagon Train but never watched Rawhide

Interestingly, Bette Davis appeared on an episode of Wagon Train in Season 1 (1959).

 

[BevoJoe]

My family and I watched several Westerns when I was a kid:

Have Gun, Will Travel
Wagon Train
Rawhide
Gunsmoke
The Rifleman
Maverick
Bonanza
Sugarfoot
Wild Wild West
Laramie

Saturday Mornings in the late 50's and early 60's I watched:
The Lone Ranger
Roy Rogers
Zorro

 

[SabreHorn]

Have Gun, Will Travel

Joe,

Did you ever see the episode where he was hired to officiate a baseball game between a traveling pro team and the men of the town? Probably the funniest episode of all time and my dad's favorite.

 

[BevoJoe]

Joe,

Did you ever see the episode where he was hired to officiate a baseball game between a traveling pro team and the men of the town? Probably the funniest episode of all time and my dad's favorite.

Probably. I don't remember many details of the actual episodes since that was long ago and I was a small kid.

 

[moondog_LFZ]

My family and I watched several Westerns when I was a kid:

Have Gun, Will Travel
Wagon Train
Rawhide
Gunsmoke
The Rifleman
Maverick
Bonanza
Sugarfoot
Wild Wild West
Laramie

Saturday Mornings in the late 50's and early 60's I watched:
The Lone Ranger
Roy Rogers
Zorro

Wanted Dead or Alive (Steve McQueen)
The Big Valley

 

[Giovanni Jones]

I loved watching The Wild Wild West on Friday nights.
The only other western that I watched with any regularity was The Big Valley (when it was in syndication in the 1970s). It was a shameless ripoff of Bonanza, with Barbara Stanwyck as the widowed matriarch; Peter Breck as the hotheaded Nick; Richard Long as the intelligent and level-headed Jarrod; Lee Majors (before he got his bionic limbs) as the half-sibling Heath; and Linda Evans as Audra.

 

[moondog_LFZ]

Joe,

Did you ever see the episode where he was hired to officiate a baseball game between a traveling pro team and the men of the town? Probably the funniest episode of all time and my dad's favorite.

My favorite Richard Boone was with Paul Newman in "Hombre".

 

[nashhorn]

Loved “Wanted dead or alive”. Wife bought me the dvd with numerous episodes years ago.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

I loved Wild Wild West growing up too. So much that I still fondly remember it even after Will Smith's horrible movie.

 

[IvanDiabloHorn]

A couple more,

The Rebel (Johnny Yuma)
Branded

Damn, now I have the Branded song in my mind.

 

[Gladius&Pilum]

If we have to sue Bowelsby, et al, I sincerely hope I can choose the legal team. This will be Bowelsby's last shot at relevance. After the total cluster he has created, I would cherish watching him get ***** slapped around the courtroom. I only wish Barefoot Sanders was still around to preside.

What exactly was the cluster that Bowlsby created?

 

[Giovanni Jones]

The Wild Wild West had something for everyone. For my older brother, it had intrigue and fist fights galore; for me, it had cool gadgets and Artemis Gordon's disguises; and for my big sister, it had Robert Conrad. In very tight pants.

 

[SabreHorn]

What exactly was the cluster that Bowlsby created?

Which one? His career is a constant cluster, the most notable of which is him and Chuckie NeinASS botching the Clemson, FSU, GT deal so they could kiss the Catholics ***. Then of course there are all the stellar hires he has made. I could type until Friday and not cover them all.

 

[Gladius&Pilum]

Which one? His career is a constant cluster, the most notable of which is him and Chuckie NeinASS botching the Clemson, FSU, GT deal so they could kiss the Catholics ***. Then of course there are all the stellar hires he has made. I could type until Friday and not cover them all.

Well, I wouldn't want you to wear out your keyboard, but... how exactly did Chuck & Bobby botch the deal? Certainly replacing NU, MU, and CO with those 3 ACC teams would have been a much better "get" than Purple Baylor and Deliverance U.

 

[MajorRules00]

Which one? His career is a constant cluster, the most notable of which is him and Chuckie NeinASS botching the Clemson, FSU, GT deal so they could kiss the Catholics ***. Then of course there are all the stellar hires he has made. I could type until Friday and not cover them all.

It really is a shame to see how far the Big 12 has fallen. I hope the majority of teams find a good landing spot.

 

[BLucky]

And another conference may move AWAY from divisions and go to 8 conference games.
Big Ten considering the elimination of divisions amid College Football Playoff expansion talks

 

[Gladius&Pilum]

How about, we'll share our TV revenue, but we aren't going to play your ****** schedule. You'll make more money if Texas & Oklahoma play their own arranged schedule. We will play oSu, Tech, Baylor, TCU, and whomever the hell else we want, OR we WILL wipe the courtroom up with your *** because Bowelsby is too damn dumb to hire competent counsel, but then again he wouldn't recognize competent counsel if they bit him on the ***.

Failing to "...fully participate in the activities of the conference" would trigger forfeiture of conference revenues, according to Section 3 of the Big12 bylaws.

 

[SabreHorn]

Failing to "...fully participate in the activities of the conference" would trigger forfeiture of conference revenues, according to Section 3 of the Big12 bylaws.

So we arrive at the larger paycheck early by forfeiting the old, smaller check?

I would love to go to war with Las Colinas, particularly if Bowelsby selects their litigator. Just please let me sit in on his deposition.

 

[MajorRules00]

Failing to "...fully participate in the activities of the conference" would trigger forfeiture of conference revenues, according to Section 3 of the Big12 bylaws.

The buyout lessens with each passing day.

 

[SabreHorn]

Major,

Keep in mind that A&M was losing $20 million a year when they left. They had borrowed $20 million from the school; that note was coming due at the same time the Aggies were facing another deficit.

Also, while Chris will be fully involved with any decisions, the Aggies AD was touring Europe with some women's team when the Aggies pulled the lever. Aggies AD is a victim of the "mushroom theory" - keep him covered in **** and in the dark and he will flourish. It ain't like he has any say in what goes on.

 

[Gladius&Pilum]

So we arrive at the larger paycheck early by forfeiting the old, smaller check?

Not the way it works. According to the bylaws, a member can withdraw from the conference by paying a buy out but the GOR remains in effect. This means the buy-out isn't a "buy back". The tier1&2 media rights remain under Big12 ownership.

This is why ESPN was trying to get other Big12 schools placed into other conferences. If the Big12 dissolved, both the exit fees and the GOR would become invalid.

Minus a modification of terms through a mediated settlement, there can be no "early" arrival of the bigger check because UT does not own its Tier1&2 media rights, the Big12 does. So even if UT paid Eleventy Trillion to exit and begin playing in the SEC in 2022, any revenue generated by content not in the 3rd Tier would go to the Big12 until the GOR expired.

So these are the most realistic possibilities:

UT/OU remain in the Big12 until the GOR expires in 2025 (most likely IMO)
UT/OU negotiate an exit that allows them to regain ownership of their Tier1&2 rights. (possible but the Big12 currently has the upper hand)
Big12 dissolves and UT/OU are free of all contractual obligations to the defunct conference. (seemed likely early on but now, not so much)

 

[BevoJoe]

A couple more,

The Rebel (Johnny Yuma)
Branded

Damn, now I have the Branded song in my mind.

Steve McQueen in "The Rebel" was a good show. I watched some when I was young, but a lot of the reruns aired in the late '70s early '80s and I watched them then. "Branded" I remember in the 60s and 'early 70's (I think) and I watched many of those.

 

[MajorRules00]

Not the way it works. According to the bylaws, a member can withdraw from the conference by paying a buy out but the GOR remains in effect. This means the buy-out isn't a "buy back". The tier1&2 media rights remain under Big12 ownership.

This is why ESPN was trying to get other Big12 schools placed into other conferences. If the Big12 dissolved, both the exit fees and the GOR would become invalid.

Minus a modification of terms through a mediated settlement, there can be no "early" arrival of the bigger check because UT does not own its Tier1&2 media rights, the Big12 does. So even if UT paid Eleventy Trillion to exit and begin playing in the SEC in 2022, any revenue generated by content not in the 3rd Tier would go to the Big12 until the GOR expired.

So these are the most realistic possibilities:

UT/OU remain in the Big12 until the GOR expires in 2025 (most likely IMO)
UT/OU negotiate an exit that allows them to regain ownership of their Tier1&2 rights. (possible but the Big12 currently has the upper hand)
Big12 dissolves and UT/OU are free of all contractual obligations to the defunct conference. (seemed likely early on but now, not so much)

This is a wonderful logical analysis. But it skims over a couple of worldly facts:

1) In business, the one who is most patient has the advantage. As of winter of 22, the B12 certainly has the upper hand. But that leverage diminishes with each passing day.

2) Everything in the material world changes. Nothing is permanent. This includes contracts, which are amended all the time.

 

[nashhorn]

Uh, McQueen was “Wanted dead or alive”, the Rebel or Johnny Yuma, as sung by Johnny Cash, was another guy.

 

[SabreHorn]

Is anybody aware that McQueen worked in NOLA and Port Arthur before being released to Hollywood?

 

[nashhorn]

Not me.

 

[Gladius&Pilum]

This is a wonderful logical analysis. But it skims over a couple of worldly facts:

1) In business, the one who is most patient has the advantage. As of winter of 22, the B12 certainly has the upper hand. But that leverage diminishes with each passing day.

2) Everything in the material world changes. Nothing is permanent. This includes contracts, which are amended all the time.

How exactly is the Big12's leverage diminishing?

 

[MajorRules00]

How exactly is the Big12's leverage diminishing?

In this game, leverage belongs to the one who is most patient.

The Big 12 commish has stated that UT and OU account for 50% of the revenue for the conference. There are three seasons until the GOR expires in 2025. Logically, the earlier both schools wish to leave, the more costly their exit will be to the conference...and the more OU and Texas will have to pay the Big 8 to get out of the GOR.

Texas has stated that they plan to run out the clock on the GOR and stay parked in the Big 12 until 2025. Which means that, if both schools stay for the duration, the BIG 8 gets NOTHING from the departure of UT and OU.

So:

2022= Huge Big 8 payout
2025= Zero Big 8 payout

The in-between years will be where the action's at.

 

[Gladius&Pilum]

In this game, leverage belongs to the one who is most patient.

The Big 12 commish has stated that UT and OU account for 50% of the revenue for the conference. There are three seasons until the GOR expires in 2025. Logically, the earlier both schools wish to leave, the more costly their exit will be to the conference...and the more OU and Texas will have to pay the Big 8 to get out of the GOR.

Texas has stated that they plan to run out the clock on the GOR and stay parked in the Big 12 until 2025. Which means that, if both schools stay for the duration, the BIG 8 gets NOTHING from the departure of UT and OU.

So:

2022= Huge Big 8 payout
2025= Zero Big 8 payout

The in-between years will be where the action's at.

Not sure where you’re getting the $0 buyout in 2025. The GOR expires in 2025, which is necessary for a team to exit the conference with their Tier 1&2 media rights available for their new conference, but it doesn’t nullify the conference buyout.


Absent a negotiated settlement, a school must forfeit the final two years of distributions to exit the conference. The bylaws allow for two pathways for declaring intent to withdraw. The first is official written notification from the withdrawing school. The second is a supermajority of the remaining schools can vote that a school has evidenced an intent to withdraw by action or lack thereof.

So, if UT/OU don’t submit a written request to withdraw in 2023 (effective 2025), expect the 8 remaining schools to agree by vote that UT and OU have evidenced their intent to withdraw by seeking membership in the SEC and refusing to renew the GOR, thus starting the clock on the withholding of distributions.

This is where the lawyering begins.

Kumbaya Scenario:

UT/OU may work out a settlement with the Big12 where the fees get reduced, etc. This would require a supermajority of the remaining 8 members to approve though.


What Evs, We Rich Scenario:

UT/OU do not fight the Big12 and allows the conference to withhold the final two years of distributions. This may be financially palatable to UT, but OU isn’t in the same money zip code. Not sure if OU could absorb such a budget shortfall.

Scorched Earth Scenario:

See you in court, MF! UT/OU may claim that the letter indicating intent to not renew the GOR was the notice of their intent to withdraw. This would start the two-year clock in July of 2021. UT/OU might then claim that by failing to withhold the ’22 and ’23 distributions the Big12 missed its window to collect the buyout. Any attempt to withhold distributions in ’24 and ’25 would be in contravention of its own bylaws and thus invalid.

How will it go? I surely don’t know. But it will definitely be interesting to see what happens.