Anti-EO declaration

[Mr. Deez]

Mr D
No your point is still on point
Bubba tried to show no lege is needed since illegal aliens show up for hearings.
ICE showed Congress why lege IS needed.

I understand what he was doing. Even if his numbers were true (and a true picture of things), it wouldn't have any bearing on my point.

 

[OUBubba]

This is the kind of thing that bugs me here. Switzer posted some very questionable stats (which wouldn't have been relevant even if they had been totally reliable) from a Left-wing group as a diversion. Then others rushed to prove his numbers wrong (which I understand), and in the midst of the pissing match, my underlying point got lost.

A. I don’t disagree that EO’s are a problem. I think it’s a bipartisan problem.
B. I was pushing back on the stupid assertion that Biden was the worst in history.
C. Who’s to say those stats are not valid? Surely a similary biased site on the other end of the spectrum has pushed back on these stats if they are fake.

 

[Mr. Deez]

A. I don’t disagree that EO’s are a problem. I think it’s a bipartisan problem.

Then you should lead with that. It would improve your credibility. A big part of the problem in modern day politics is the inability to admit that one's own's **** stinks. It goes a long way to make the admission. It's not a sign of weakness.

B. I was pushing back on the stupid assertion that Biden was the worst in history.

It's too early to judge one way or the other. He is not off to a good start.

C. Who’s to say those stats are not valid? Surely a similary biased site on the other end of the spectrum has pushed back on these stats if they are fake.

Many have suggested the real stats are very different - government agencies, mainstream media outlets, etc. My guess is that like most political stats, the numbers aren't blatantly false. However, they've been "massaged" to so an extent that they create a false impression.

Consider this quote. "Contrary to claims by the government that most immigrants fail to appear in immigration court, our analysis of data provided by the federal government reveals that 83% of all non detained immigrants with completed or pending removal cases from Fiscal Years (FY) 2008 through 2018 attended all of their court hearings."

What the hell does "our analysis" mean? Well, it can mean anything. Since this group's "analysis" is wildly different from pretty much everyone else's, my guess is that they cherry-picked to an obscene degree.

Anecdotally, I represented tons of illegal aliens when I was doing God's Work. Plenty of them got caught and released and ordered to appear before immigration courts. Virtually none showed up. Why not? Because for most of them, it would be stupid to show up. It's like showing up to a trial in which you know you're going to get a death sentence. Unless you're one of the very few with a serious asylum claim, there's no upside. You're better off no-showing and hoping you never get caught again.

 

[Seattle Husker]

It's too early to judge one way or the other. He is not off to a good start.

POTUS in recent administrations always come out hot in terms of volume of EO's at the start of their first term. They are reversing the prior admin's EOs or virtue signaling to their base with proclamations that have little real-world impact. Like you, I think Congress is abdicating it's power by leaving so much room in their legislation for "interpretation" of the laws. It's a weak minded approach to governing that both parties partake in.

Anecdotally, I represented tons of illegal aliens when I was doing God's Work. Plenty of them got caught and released and ordered to appear before immigration courts. Virtually none showed up. Why not? Because for most of them, it would be stupid to show up. It's like showing up to a trial in which you know you're going to get a death sentence. Unless you're one of the very few with a serious asylum claim, there's no upside. You're better off no-showing and hoping you never get caught again.

~2/3rd of Asylum claims get rejected. I've read wildly different catch-n-release return statistics. The ones that return, >80% return, are outfitted with ankle bracelets. I wouldn't have a problem with all catch-n-release given these bracelets. If you have it removed then you automatically get put on the export list and should you get picked up by law enforcement get flagged at illegal with a warrant for your arrest for removing your bracelet.

 

[Duck Dodgers]

83% of all non detained immigrants with completed or pending removal case

Main point, besides them being partisan hacks, is the completed or pending removal cases aspect.

If the illegal alien never shows up, then it doesn't become a completed, or even a pending removal case, it's still awaiting being heard. So naturally, a large percentage of the ones who do show up get their cases completed, or pending removal.

A better number would be "What percentage caught and released ever bother to show up for their (honor system) court appearance?".

 

[nashhorn]

I wouldn't have a problem with all catch-n-release given these bracelets.

Wow, I can hear the outcry were this ever implemented, but not a bad idea.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Like you, I think Congress is abdicating it's power by leaving so much room in their legislation for "interpretation" of the laws. It's a weak minded approach to governing that both parties partake in.

I agree. Sometimes it's poor draftsmanship, but usually it's an unwillingness to address the issues.

~2/3rd of Asylum claims get rejected. I've read wildly different catch-n-release return statistics. The ones that return, >80% return, are outfitted with ankle bracelets. I wouldn't have a problem with all catch-n-release given these bracelets. If you have it removed then you automatically get put on the export list and should you get picked up by law enforcement get flagged at illegal with a warrant for your arrest for removing your bracelet.

That sounds nice, but the problem is that only a tiny number of illegal immigrants in the United States have a serious asylum claim. Those who do are going to show up with or without an ankle bracelet. The rest have no reason to keep the ankle bracelet on, because if they keep it on and show up, they know what's coming. There's no upside.

 

[Horn6721]

DD
"A better number would be "What percentage caught and released ever bother to show up for their (honor system) court appearance?".
According to ICE before Congress about 13% ever show up for their court appointe date
How many of the Thousands Biden is releasing without a NTA will ever ask for a court date?