And here comes China...

We don't need the oil sands, Prodigal. We've got way more reserves right here. China has none. Plus, over time, we'll grow less and less dependent on oil as alternative fuel sources become cheaper and cheaper.
 
Sure we have reserves, but we're not using them, and that discussion's obviously been had on here before. Bottom line is it's a great opportunity, it's one more chance to boost the economy and it makes perfect sense to do it.

Ideally yes, we'll be less dependent as time goes on, but that day hasn't come yet. We still have to think about where we are now, and we're still an oil-driven economy.
 
These lines crack me up. Some oil people act like unless you agree to their particular project you will destroy the American industry as a whole and wipe out millions of jobs. Whatever particular tract of land China bought rights do does not consitutute the American oil supply- but it is funny to read your woe is us line about being good Earth Day people just because China did something.

Look- China has 1.3 billion people, no oil, no gas, and just a bit of coal. What you didn't mention is that China is doing the same thing for oil across the entire planet, as well as investing hundreds of billions of dollars every month into renewable energy. It's a very diversified approach- as is ours. Again, something you didn't mention. The reason Solyndra in fact failed was because low cost Chinese solar undersold it despite Solyndra having a decent product. China is going balls out in every direction at once because they have to- as do we. And we should, like China, be investing in ALL areas of energy from oil to gas to nuclear, to wind to solar to geothermal to hydro to batteries and more. Because last I checked, and everyone else who follows this- Germany, Japan and China are way ahead of us in so many areas with products we invented from the solar panel, the car, computers, and more.

Just please quit the "if you don't do [insert project name here] you will kill jobs and destroy [insert industry name here]

It gets old and isn't true.
 
We don't need the oil sands, Prodigal. We've got way more reserves right here.
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This is a stupid comment for many reasons. We have reserves here but our own government will not let us touch a lot of it. National Security concerns are another issue. The chinese and russians are both doing a lot of business here in the US, buying property, leases, etc. Canada is Canada, but we need to be their target customer and we should be investing there. It will cause a lot of problems in the future if these foreign countries get too strong of a foothold here because our companies will need to be able to cooperate with theirs because of the way this business is run. I can tell you that it is a pain in the *** to do business with them. They do not cooperate, nor do they negotiate in good faith. China will eventually triple our energy consumption. There isnt enough oil in the world right now to handle that demand.
 
Solyndra was as fraudulent as they come, don't come on here and blame the Chinese for their failed business!!!

That is just plain straight out ********.

They were a fraud and they took and abused a bunch of dumbasses.
 
People get their feelings hurt in these energy threads- its getting as bad as abortion.

1) Solyndra lying on their DOE app and lying about their reporting does not negate their high quality PV panel which did not sell as expected given the glut of Chinese imports. Besides- the point was not about Solyndra- it was that China in addition to oil is focusing on everything on a scale much greater than we are. This is not even close to being disputed.

2) China does not have enough energy supply to meet the needs of their population whose energy needs per capita grow by the day. Period.

3) China, in addition to Germany and Japan, are kicking our *** in the goal to grow and diversify supplies of energy that are domestic, clean and abundant. Their lead in multiple sectors has already killed some American jobs as we buy their products, products we invented here in the USA.
 
I remember the Paris Hilton spot- it was done to retort some politician using her name in a mocking manner. It was hysterical, and yet also more sound than 99% of the posts on this board about energy. A balanced, complete approach, tackling all angles aggressively, and yet being honest about the true costs of all of them. Whomever wrote that for Paris was brilliant- and yeah Paris isn't such the idiot we all make her out to be as she earns 10s of millions annually on her products and appearances.

Prod- you are one of those guys who takes this issue too personally. I re-read your post and couldn't find one solid point- you bury your comment in arrogant comments that do nothing to discuss the issue. I don't think you know what the efficiency rate is on a solyndra pv panel nor do you care. You are one of those guys that politicized a fraudulent loan guarantee made to a company- something this country has done for decades hundreds of times. Re-read Mr. Deez's post- he said it quite well and very simply.
 
1) We need the pipeline. We need oil from a stable source and Canada fits that role well. The only reason that this is a political issue is because Obama made it one. Why else would he want to put this on hold until after the election? If it is a good idea after the election it is a better idea now. Let China get their oil from Asia and the Middle East.
2) It makes sense for the government to invest in alternative energy technology, but some heads need to roll over Solyndra or any comparable mistakes, and I have not heard of heads rolling yet. That is a mistake.
3) We need to encourage the production and use of natural gas. It is an environmentally and economically sound "bridge" to alternative sources that are not quite viable yet. Boone was right on this one.
 
Sounds like the backstory for a new James Bond movie. Best thing US can do is start moving to alternate fuel sources over the next 15-20 years.
 
News flash: China has been coming on for a long time now, and it's only going to get worse. Most, if not all, of our entire foreign policy should be geared toward dealing with China. Israel? Not so much? Iraq? Who cares? It's a China Crisis, baby, and that Arizona Sky is getting a bt cloudy.
 
We'll deal with China after the 2012 election.
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Bronco- simmer down and let me say you really don't have a place to tell me what you think I'm trying to say.

When you buy a solar pV panel, the product you want is the electrons it produces, not the panel. Saying "********" and sounding pissed off doesn't exactly add to your point. Yes, First Solar does make cheaper panels- and that's great, but those panels also produce slightly less electrons which is the entire point of a panel. So, in the end, buying something that costs more but is more productive can be in fact, cheaper.

Just because someone says ******** a few times doesn't mean you have a point- in fact, it's the opposite.
 
Mcbrett- Thanks for the tip on buying things that are more productive.

The point is that the Solyndra panels are not more productive as you represented that they were. You obviously ignored this. They were at best equal in output to other panels and in some cases less productive yet they cost a lot more.

You have a strange compulsion to misrepresent things like this. You say you work for a firm that looks at these types of deals so it is hard to understand why you continually misrepresent the facts.
 
I have a question about solyndra.
I think I read that many of its investors, in addition to being BO supporters were convinced that the Gov't would loan/give Solyndra the money which of course helped their investments.

The fact that BO changed the line of pay outs from the gov't being first,as is I thought required ,to putting the investors ahead of the Gov't seems like it verifes the claim that the investors knew their money was protected.

sorry to derail the OT
 
who else thinks that mcbrett and bronco should man up, do the honorable thing, and solve this like they do on texags by dodging a meet-up at a respectable Houston hotel parking lot, thumping their chests, bragging about their internet Jags (or Volts, in certain cases), and then claim their football and political supremacy for all to see?

and while they're at it, they could stray back to the original topic of oil sands and those pesky chinese
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Mcbrett- Your latest response is worse than the other ones. I was kind of joking when I said you didn't know what you were talking about regarding Solyndra and solar panels in general, but now I think it really is true. Your points get stranger every time you type them.

You said "about Solyndra' PV panel conversion rate- it actually is an amazing, advanced product." Then to back that up you said the following " Their efficiency was up to 12-14% depending on local conditions."

Now either you don't know what "amazing" means or you are just truly ignorant of the industry in general and Solyndra specifically. A 12-14% efficiency rate (which Solyndrs NEVER achieved in the field) puts Solyndra right smack in the bottom of efficiency rates for panels. See the following.
The LinkThe Link

There are plenty of other sites with comparisons as well. This is BASIC stuff.

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