Ahmad Aubery Trial
- Thread starter theiioftx
- Start date
Caught by whom? There's an implication here that these guys had some degree of authority over Arbery. They didn't. These weren't uniformed police officers. These were three dudes chasing a guy in a truck and waving a gun around.
As with any shooting, you have to look at what the person reasonably knew or should have known at the time. (That's why the "unarmed black man" trope that the media repeats ad nauseum is nonsensical and stupid.) Again, these weren't police officers trying to apprehend a suspect. They were three plain-clothed, guys chasing a lone guy down in a truck and waving a gun at him. That is per se threatening.
In retrospect and knowning what we know today, yes, Arbery shouldn't have fought back, but if you're in Arbery's shoes at the time, how do you know that? (Again, it's like expecting the cop to know that the black guy fighting with him isn't armed and isn't going to hurt him.) How do you know these guys are truly just interested in looking into a burglary in the area and aren't about to James Byrd you? And if they're going to James Byrd you, then it makes more sense to fight back. There's no way for Arbery to know that, so I can't fault him for fighting back.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
As for the comment "caught by whom?", he was caught by the 3 guys / stooges. Put this way, if someone tries to break into my neighbors house and the owner is elderly or a single female, I might be inclined to pull a weapon on the guy to prevent the owner from serious bodily harm. I'd have called the police first of course but the priority at the time is to keep a vulnerable neighbor safe
Am I a vigilante? Or a watchful neighbor? Might apply to the 3 guys / stooges as well in regards to property
I see it from both sides here. The deceased didn't deserve to die for what he did, but why fight a guy with a gun? To me, he knew he was fighting NOT to go to jail but I'll never know. Better choices to be made, man.... Better choices
Wait, if someone is stealing from your neighbor and you stop them it is wrong because you are not a police officer? Aubrey took off in a sprint when confronted about being on the property trespassing.
In rural America, police are not readily available and around. It makes citizens defend themselves and their property to a certain extent. They ran him off, but did not need to chase him down. That was where they were wrong and will pay for it through prison.
I cannot speak for what Aubrey was thinking in going on the attack versus surrendering. But it is a fact that he attacked whether or not it was the right thing to do or not.
In rural America, police are not readily available and around. It makes citizens defend themselves and their property to a certain extent. They ran him off, but did not need to chase him down. That was where they were wrong and will pay for it through prison.
I cannot speak for what Aubrey was thinking in going on the attack versus surrendering. But it is a fact that he attacked whether or not it was the right thing to do or not.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
I'm very much in agreement with you. Esp nowadays when suburban police reaction times are slow, you either need to be proactive or simply let your community slide down into a free for all , take whatever you want from whoever you want.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
I'm going to give a great example for deez, and it hits close to your (ii's) roots in east TX. My wife and I were in Lufkin recently to put in a bid on a house there on Jefferson Ave. Before leaving town we drove into the driveway of the home and noticed 2 kids next door under 7yo riding their bikes in the driveway after dark. "Cool, safe neighborhood, dad is probably watching from inside".
The mom (next door) steps out, turns out her hubby is out of town on business most of the time. Says that block is safe, which was confirmed by a conversation with a cop later on. OTW home i told the wife when we move (we were eventually outbid even with a full cash offer) I'd probably need to buy a firearm in case I see a burglar trying to break in their home. I can stop a criminal with a gun, but not with my weight bench .
Would I feel worse if the criminal had killed the family had I done nothing? Or if I accidentally killed the criminal and the family was safe? That **** runs thru my mind.
Deez I think from his posts grew up in the Oakland area and moved to Plano in his early teens. In the 90s Plano was a place you really didn't need a firearm then. My brother still lives there, has never owned a firearm. But if you're in a higher crime area or in a rural area (as ii's mentioned) I'd think having one is necessary. Not optional
jmho
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
So, is trespassing the same as stealing now? The homeowner validated that nothing was stolen on this date, correct?
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
If a bank robber is killed trying to rob a bank on property, he hasn't stolen anything has he?
hush up...you are trying to introduce logic into a conversation where one party lacks comprehension of such.
There was a history of theft and he was caught on camera multiple times. They prevented the theft by confronting him on the property at which point he sprinted away.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Was he caught on camera stealing? You know the answer to that one right? Was anyone else seen on camera stealing from a house very nearby? Yes, they were.
Spoiler alert: A white male.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
I know this disappoints you, but the 3 guys might have pulled a shotgun on the white guy, too. Doesn't fit your stereotype driven world, but it happens
Yep. I feel that the guy got what was coming to him but at the same time the justice system can not be centered on my emotions. We must contain our worst instincts with a justice system that won't let vigilantes do whatever they want.
Absolutely, and if that or something similar had occured here, I'd be totally on the side of the shooter.
It depends on what you mean by "stop them" and what's going on when you do. If the person is in the act of stealing and you confront him in the act, then feel free to stop him. If he's endangering someone else, of course. However, if you don't catch him and he's simply running, do you have a right to stop him (and threaten deadly force to do it) just because you suspect he has stolen something? Absolutely not. You put the Dirty Harry complex aside and call the cops and let them deal with it. They were stupid not to.
In this situation, that doesn't change things. Furthermore, this wasn't in a rural area.
Three guys were trying to essentially take him into custody. He has no idea who the hell they are. Of course he attacked them. And I'm not one to play the race card, but if I was a black dude and three old white guys in Georgia were trying to round me up with a gun, I'd probably assume the worst. Even as a white guy, I'd be pretty suspicious and nervous.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
I feel ya. I was talking about 'what if' (which was brought up earlier in the thread), you're focused on 'what did'.
The bolded part above is what jurors probably made their decisions on. Just guessing. I know I'd have a hard time justifying the killer's action in court.
As a citizen tho.... I'm not bothered by the final outcome given his criminal past and prowling around suspiciously.
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OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Yes. He was on camera. No, the video did not show him taking something. That's not CNN's portrayal of him. That's the facts established in, you know, court. Sure, he may have stolen something previously. That would warrant arrest and trial not a lynching. You have no idea if he actually stole something. There was a video of someone stealing something at a neighbor's place and it was NOT Aubrey.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Agree. Good thing none of that was death penalty worthy.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
It's not even all accurate. He was convicted of illegally possessing a firearm when he had it in his waistband while attending a HS basketball game in 2013, a year after he graduated. Probation was his corrective action. In 2017 he was caught trying to shoplift a TV from Walmart. His probation from 2013 was extended as a result. Arbery wasn't an angel but based on his 2 convictions he wasn't a hardened criminal either.
That apparently warrants a death sentence to some.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Well... in the end.. it kinda was
I can’t count the times I forgot to pull my pistol out of my waistband before I attended a high school game. Damn police overreacting again.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
You're already on record. You have more sympathy for the killers than the guy with 2 misdemeanors. I'll leave it up to the reader to determine if that's because of the color of their skin. I have my own opinion.
The killers got it hard compared to the arsonists who killed someone as well.
George Floyd Protests: Ten Years for Fatal Arson in Summer 2020 Minneapolis Riots | National Review
George Floyd Protests: Ten Years for Fatal Arson in Summer 2020 Minneapolis Riots | National Review
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
Not that different from what Kyle Rittenhouse, only Arbery had to use his fists since he didn't have a gun of his own to try and stop the threat with.
And even that wouldn't have applied in this instance. They chased him down with weapons and threatened his life merely over seeing that he was present on the premises.
These situations are always interesting when the pro- and anti-gun control people start frantically swapping sides with each other.
You have to have your head buried in the sand if you don't see it. Major metropolitan cities are becoming lawless war zones for honest citizens and police officers. Houston is leading the country in murders and has 4 officers shot this year already.
ii's,
You need to revisit your last sentence. There were three shot yesterday in addition to the two killed last week. The guy that shot the three exchanged gunfire with another 20+. Then there's the guy Wednesday that wanted to shoot at the Village policeman but wound up shooting himself by accident. Murders in Houston are only up 60% from same time last year.
You need to revisit your last sentence. There were three shot yesterday in addition to the two killed last week. The guy that shot the three exchanged gunfire with another 20+. Then there's the guy Wednesday that wanted to shoot at the Village policeman but wound up shooting himself by accident. Murders in Houston are only up 60% from same time last year.
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