A&M vs Texas 12/06/20

[DFW_Horn]

What happened to Karisma Ortiz. Beginning of the season she was a starter, now she's next to last man in the rotation.

My guess is that DeYona got the start because of the aggy height in the paint but Karisma subbed in for her when it was obvious DeYona was a bit lost on the offensive side the first few minutes of the game. She hit the first 3 of the game off Charli's first assist of the season (?!). That last stat is the next step in Charli's progression to being 'elite' - passing out of the double/triple team. Much as I hate to compliment anything about "Harvard on the Brazos" (lulz), Baylor's bigs usually do that very well.

Ashley and DeYona really provided a lot of the intensity and energy during the first half when other players not named Audrey were lagging. As far as Audrey's free throws? Yes, she had an off night (1/6) but had been 75% in the previous 3 games after leading the team last season (82%).

I thought Texas was capable of pulling off the upset and they very nearly did despite shooting poorly, especially the first half, but I'm not down on this team or Vic. This year's team is going to have to really grind out some less than pretty wins but they proved last night that their defense can keep them in games even when the offense isn't humming or, for some stretches, even sputtering.

 

[racerx5908]

Now that I've had time to decompress from last night's game, here are my Q/As to myself:
Q1: Did I expect us to win the game?
A1: Quite frankly, no.

Q2: Did I hope to not be embarrassed?
A2: Yes. And we didn't get embarrassed

Q3: Then why were you so mad after the game?
A3: Because of our crappy, slow, sloppy start

Q4: Anything else?
A4: Because we didn't give up and clawed our way back several times just to blow it on missed free throws or fouls and that pisses me off the most that we're good enough on a bad night that we can still come back. But we're young enough where we don't come back

Q5: Did you expect to go through the season undefeated?
A5: No, but I didn't want to lose to the teams we shouldn't lose to. So, yeah so far so good

Q6: What else?
A6: Wanna beat Baylor at least once this year

Q7: And?
A7: And want to get at least past the second round of NCAA playoffs

Q8: That's all?
A8: And I want our team to piss off Mulkey when we beat them

That'll do pig.

 

[brnkj]

Complete culture changes in a program are going to take time, and the sluggish mentality to start games is definitely a hangover from previous seasons. Listening to the commentators last night they DID mention that when asked, Charli saying one of the major differences between Vic's program and the previous is that they're no longer allowed to "get away with" the occasional lackadaisical mentality.

That said, I do not think Karen was one who "allowed" it, but perhaps lacked the interpersonal tools (and/or staff's advice) to successfully address it. Kids are going to be kids. This probably won't be the last time we see this either. Remember, aside from Deyona and Kyra, this team consists of players brought in by someone else. The current staff needs AT LEAST a couple of recruiting classes of their own. Realize that we will have a young, inexperienced team for a couple of years as the transition occurs.

 

[cc fan]

I hope this game stops the hype about Charli a little bit. She is good, with a lot of strengths. But it's hard to do much when you are double teamed by two strong, tall players most of the game. Recall how Louisville shut down B. Griner a few years ago? The business about her being the #1 draft pick is way out of line. I would like Vic to have draw up some plays for her to shoot some threes tonight, since what she was doing inside wasn't working.

Yall are stupid funny!!!! Stopping the hype? Its clear you have so many people that dont know basketball on this forum. I have read your comments about she dissappearing. How can she do anything without the ball or without passes during an entire 3rd quarter. Cierra Johnson, disappeared, who was the AGGIES big. she only scored 5. and by the way, Charli went to the line on an and one because she is slower than her. So those 5 points we lost by could have been made on the fT Line, if we had a play against a zone that would have created versatility against a slow big. So off with your lame comments about, the hype.
Furthermore, comparing her to a shut down against Griner....Charli has other skills, that obviously, our Coach Vic has yet to create to help out this team against a zone. Maybe they'll figure it out because we will see a zone again. She wasnt put in any situation but to hammer down low, which is not what Karen figured out that was best for our bigs last year. Vic like "BIG" posts. Charli is not that kind of post and TEXAS will never have another player of her size, because they do not recruit BIGS that look like Charli, So off with your narrative. I notice that these longhorn fans on this forum is so dang judgemental of some and you love others. But its all good with you people. This thing with vic is having huge guard play, and his dimension for bigs is one dimensional. So there you have it.

 

[cc fan]

Yall are stupid funny!!!! Stopping the hype? Its clear you have so many people that dont know basketball on this forum. I have read your comments about she dissappearing. How can she do anything without the ball or without passes during an entire 3rd quarter. Cierra Johnson, disappeared, who was the AGGIES big. she only scored 5. and by the way, Charli went to the line on an and one because she is slower than her. So those 5 points we lost by could have been made on the fT Line, if we had a play against a zone that would have created versatility against a slow big. So off with your lame comments about, the hype.
Furthermore, comparing her to a shut down against Griner....Charli has other skills, that obviously, our Coach Vic has yet to create to help out this team against a zone. Maybe they'll figure it out because we will see a zone again. She wasnt put in any situation but to hammer down low, which is not what Karen figured out that was best for our bigs last year. Vic like "BIG" posts. Charli is not that kind of post and TEXAS will never have another player of her size, because they do not recruit BIGS that look like Charli, So off with your narrative. I notice that these longhorn fans on this forum is so dang judgemental of some and you love others. But its all good with you people. This thing with vic is having huge guard play, and his dimension for bigs is one dimensional. So there you have it.

Charli's highlights of last year was versatility. That's what you got last year. So comparing this to last year is different, when you only see her in one position. You guys said she dissappeared....she is not the guard. She especially isnt the guard who dribbled down and chose a pullup jump shot, while your 67'5 versatile big, ran the lane. Oh, but she wasnt suppose to position herself to score, but rebound from a what was suppose to be a layup. Go figure!!!! She is not a 6'7 250lb big! Get over it. If you are blessed with options and dont use it, then you pay. But it aggravates the heck out of a spectator that knows, many things could be done then watch the ball be passed around and take low percentage shots. So when we were in the lead by a few seconds....why didnt we attack the rim and get to the line? Well a guard took a low percentage shot. Just hopeful shots they would rather accept than strategizing for a win. That is how they won this national championship, they are living on and feeding to the world, because the smallest player on the court for Misssissipi State, made a hopeful shot!

 

[cc fan]

And for those of you who wish so bad for Charli. How was she still the highest scorer on the team, still, after not taking a shot in the 3rd. So they shot the "itsh" out of the ball in the 3rd and still, no better stats. What are you guys so afraid to admit. That she is the best shooter on the team and they didnt get her the ball or position her to take better shots in the game. Rebecca Lobo, said it best, but i only hear you say they dogged Charli in the commentary. Call it both ways. I wish her the best, and as I said years ago, it will take a special coach to coach a special player. period.

 

[loyallonghorn]

Yall are stupid funny!!!!

It wasn't my comment you were opining (cc fan = Charli Collier fan?), but when you say: "Yall are stupid funny!!!! Stopping the hype? Its clear you have so many people that dont know basketball on this forum", you lose 99% of your audience.

 

[loyallonghorn]

Out of curiosity, any relations to Charli Collier, cc fan?

 

[Zig72]

Re: whether or not pull up jumpers are a good shot. It all depends on the player. Anyone else with a long memory will remember Linda Waggoner. She had a beautiful, well-controlled pull up jumper which almost always went in. If she drove in and tried to make a lay-up against a taller player, the ball would have been swatted away and she probably wouldn't have scored.

Agree completely, but you don't have to go that far back. Ariel Atkins got to the WNBA with that skill.

 

[racerx5908]

I had not realized this, and now you can share in the anger

 

[Zig72]

I had not realized this, and now you can share in the anger

Free Lauren!

 

[DFW_Horn]

I had not realized this, and now you can share in the anger

I mentioned this on a different board - what makes it worse is aggy is her 3rd team (started out at Baylor).

 

[cc fan]

Agreed. Collier is not playing like her confident self. She has got to step up and get out of her head and do what she does the post for A&M cannot guard her whatsoever. It's a foul everytime if she just goes to work and if the double team comes kick it out and drive. Taylor is the player who is playing the most timid out of everyone to me. She doesn't look like herself whatsoever

Noooo! What you see is a play being ran to where she is only on the inside. You do not see any movement because that is not the play. You guys do realize, that plays are ran...you dont go out there and create your own plays. You do realize, they played a zone on our team, and we had no answer. Meaning, the coaches did not give a directive for the zone. You do realize that. So what you saw was the play the coaches suggested against there zone.
She would have loved to take Cierra from the key and drive one on one. We would have loved to see the dish off from a guard, but they were in a zone. lol Do you just talk for no reason and no substance, or do you just want to say Charli was not this certain kind of player. It kills us all knowing what she could have done, but a play was not called to give you what you are use to seeing. Coaches call!!!! Not Charli's!!!! you guys are hilarious with your comments. You'd think we would have more plays, but after last night, we better. Maybe it will not appear that Charli is so timid, as you stated. Mayber we will see these nice plays against a zone, and she scores like crazy, and we give all credit to vic and his staff for making her into this great player. yall are so funny. The narrative that people create for others iis verey interesting.
Have at it. lol

 

[brnkj]

Yall are stupid funny!!!! Stopping the hype? Its clear you have so many people that dont know basketball on this forum. I have read your comments about she dissappearing. How can she do anything without the ball or without passes during an entire 3rd quarter. Cierra Johnson, disappeared, who was the AGGIES big. she only scored 5. and by the way, Charli went to the line on an and one because she is slower than her. So those 5 points we lost by could have been made on the fT Line, if we had a play against a zone that would have created versatility against a slow big. So off with your lame comments about, the hype.
Furthermore, comparing her to a shut down against Griner....Charli has other skills, that obviously, our Coach Vic has yet to create to help out this team against a zone. Maybe they'll figure it out because we will see a zone again. She wasnt put in any situation but to hammer down low, which is not what Karen figured out that was best for our bigs last year. Vic like "BIG" posts. Charli is not that kind of post and TEXAS will never have another player of her size, because they do not recruit BIGS that look like Charli, So off with your narrative. I notice that these longhorn fans on this forum is so dang judgemental of some and you love others. But its all good with you people. This thing with vic is having huge guard play, and his dimension for bigs is one dimensional. So there you have it.

Personally, I think Charli is every bit the talent she is hyped up to be. I hope she stays around another season to continue developing that physical, banger dimension to her game that she'll need at the next level. I've seen tremendous strides in her from last season, as I did from her freshman to sophomore season.

She's a very special talent and I can definitely see the WNBA and Team USA in her future. Banging inside will be part of that journey in addition to the other special skill sets she possesses at her size. I love watching her play... even when it's an "off" night. Any of us who have ever competed at high levels of any sport SHOULD understand everyone has them... even the best. The criticism against her, IMO, is not fully warranted. It's frustrating to be a post player with two and three players stuck to you all night. Trust me, I know the feeling.

 

[texexted]

Texas will win games like this later this year and next year. They fought back and had a chance to win it - when they really shouldn't have been in that position after scoring droughts by their top player and the inability to make some really easy buckets. With a different coaching staff we would have been beaten by 25 points. There's no other coach I would want in the locker room and on the floor today than Schaefer teaching these student athletes about how to learn from this game and get better.
Losing to the Aggies sucks - however, I didn't feel bad after this one knowing how much better this team is going to be as the season progresses.

 

[Rexy]

One thing that might be in play related to the lack of energy and focus is that this is the last week of a VERY STRESSFUL semester of school. Usually every class has things due the last week and then finals to come up the end of this week. In fact there has been consideration of having no games this last week of school, due to the class workload. I think that might be a reason for them to be tense and not quite as focused as we might like to see. Plus, learning a new system, not getting to practice together as much as usual. These are all things that can lead to some of the play we saw. I agree this team will only get better and I can’t wait to watch them grow and develop

 

[cc fan]

Out of curiosity, any relations to Charli Collier, cc fan?

Have at it Longhorn Fans!!! I expect it to get Better!

 

[jusme828]

Ashley’s mother commented on her Instagram post that Ashley’s nose is broken, but she’s okay. Still can’t believe there wasn’t a foul called on that play.

 

[MajesticII]

Some of yal are not Basketball heads and are fans and it shows in your lack of knowledgeable things said. We had opportunities to win but that A&M team has several upperclassman (4 Sr starters) and several other reasons as to why they should have beat us and done so easily because of our youth and depth issues but this Texas program is going to get better. You have to think of this team as wine and not koolaid. Wine being with TIME they’re going to be better and not koolaid being add Coach Vic and we are a Final four team with 9 players 3 of which is freshman.

??? Two words in reply to Freshmen vs upperclassmen..." FAB FIVE" !!! You can ball or you can't. You think Texas is the only team that may get better as the season goes along ? No way this bunch is final four caliber. Texas can't shoot. Zone or sagging man and block out....and you beat Texas this year. you beat Texas men's team just the opposite...With them you contest the 3 ball and they don't know what to do with themselves.

 

[racerx5908]

I mentioned this on a different board - what makes it worse is aggy is her 3rd team (started out at Baylor).

THAT'S why her name is so familiar!

 

[kurupt]

??? Two words in reply to Freshmen vs upperclassmen..." FAB FIVE" !!! You can ball or you can't. You think Texas is the only team that may get better as the season goes along ? No way this bunch is final four caliber. Texas can't shoot. Zone or sagging man and block out....and you beat Texas this year. you beat Texas men's team just the opposite...With them you contest the 3 ball and they don't know what to do with themselves.

And I would rather be the latter.

 

[BALL IS LIFE]

Just checking to see if we all watched the same game. #25 Texas vs #12 TAMU? Final score 61-66. Was that the game?

I saw a coach in his first season at Texas with no seniors just play a national championship coach with a team loaded with seniors. And that coach in his first season at Texas with no seniors came very, very close to winning. Very.

Never like a loss, but I remain very excited about this team and this coach.

While I see what your saying with your post, I think the frustration was that the game was there for the taking. We lost based off missed bunnies and free throws. Its a game if we played in a month I would fully expect to win.

 

[kurupt]

Noooo! What you see is a play being ran to where she is only on the inside. You do not see any movement because that is not the play. You guys do realize, that plays are ran...you dont go out there and create your own plays. You do realize, they played a zone on our team, and we had no answer. Meaning, the coaches did not give a directive for the zone. You do realize that. So what you saw was the play the coaches suggested against there zone.
She would have loved to take Cierra from the key and drive one on one. We would have loved to see the dish off from a guard, but they were in a zone. lol Do you just talk for no reason and no substance, or do you just want to say Charli was not this certain kind of player. It kills us all knowing what she could have done, but a play was not called to give you what you are use to seeing. Coaches call!!!! Not Charli's!!!! you guys are hilarious with your comments. You'd think we would have more plays, but after last night, we better. Maybe it will not appear that Charli is so timid, as you stated. Mayber we will see these nice plays against a zone, and she scores like crazy, and we give all credit to vic and his staff for making her into this great player. yall are so funny. The narrative that people create for others iis verey interesting.
Have at it. lol

I total agree with the lack of coaching in terms of the zone. I hate to continue to bring up Coach Aston, but she was routinely criticized (rightfully so) about her lack of half court offense and her inability to know how to attack a zone. Well, nobody wants to say it but this team looked exactly like she was still on the sideline. And whether you're just a Charlie fan, family member, or Charlie herself criticism comes with the territory. To whom much is given, much is expected.

 

[racerx5908]

Ashley’s mother commented on her Instagram post that Ashley’s nose is broken, but she’s okay. Still can’t believe there wasn’t a foul called on that play.

I love hearing her parents talk during this bit. So much more so because they're both BB coaches.

 

[brnkj]

I total agree with the lack of coaching in terms of the zone. I hate to continue to bring up Coach Aston, but she was routinely criticized (rightfully so) about her lack of half court offense and her inability to know how to attack a zone. Well, nobody wants to say it but this team looked exactly like she was still on the sideline. And whether you're just a Charlie fan, family member, or Charlie herself criticism comes with the territory. To whom much is given, much is expected.

Yep... looked like the team offensively we've been seeing for several years and that's very disappointing. I think some of the criticism towards Collier is warranted, but not all of it. She does need to learn not to let the frustration dictate her, instead realizing you have to work that much harder to get open when they've got you covered up like a blanket because it's going to be that way. These are very young adults and still learning.

 

[cc fan]

I total agree with the lack of coaching in terms of the zone. I hate to continue to bring up Coach Aston, but she was routinely criticized (rightfully so) about her lack of half court offense and her inability to know how to attack a zone. Well, nobody wants to say it but this team looked exactly like she was still on the sideline. And whether you're just a Charlie fan, family member, or Charlie herself criticism comes with the territory. To whom much is given, much is expected.

Never will shy from criticism, because it does not matter coming from non athletes. You love to know who's who... so I am an ex coach, ex player, ex collegiate player of this game. Give credit also...but I don't look for you too. And that is fine. I only want good criticism of what you are seeing and not just speaking what you do not know. again, folk are free to say whatever, that is why I will speak up. Hey guess what...played all 40 minutes. Didn't foul out, held a very BIG girl to 5... and yes, looked upset at times. But to gain your acceptance, she had to do every single thing perfect to gain your best wishes. I see growth and maturity, more games to come, and praying for Lauren to get on the court. They will only gel as it goes along.
I know the kind of folk you like on this team. And that's not a problem, either. You will not be the last of the critics. Makes athletes stronger!!!! trust me.
Carry on. I'm signing out for good. You have nothing else to do but talk on this thing. lol

 

[Jacob Johnson]

Yall are stupid funny!!!! Stopping the hype? Its clear you have so many people that dont know basketball on this forum. I have read your comments about she dissappearing. How can she do anything without the ball or without passes during an entire 3rd quarter. Cierra Johnson, disappeared, who was the AGGIES big. she only scored 5. and by the way, Charli went to the line on an and one because she is slower than her. So those 5 points we lost by could have been made on the fT Line, if we had a play against a zone that would have created versatility against a slow big. So off with your lame comments about, the hype.
Furthermore, comparing her to a shut down against Griner....Charli has other skills, that obviously, our Coach Vic has yet to create to help out this team against a zone. Maybe they'll figure it out because we will see a zone again. She wasnt put in any situation but to hammer down low, which is not what Karen figured out that was best for our bigs last year. Vic like "BIG" posts. Charli is not that kind of post and TEXAS will never have another player of her size, because they do not recruit BIGS that look like Charli, So off with your narrative. I notice that these longhorn fans on this forum is so dang judgemental of some and you love others. But its all good with you people. This thing with vic is having huge guard play, and his dimension for bigs is one dimensional. So there you have it.

Collier is definitely worth the hype because she is versatile and a great player but last night was not her night. The broadcasters hit it right on the nose each time. When Texas was in transition, Collier had multiple times where she was one on one with aggies slower big and she did nothing with it. She just ran to one spot and stood there. Her normal self would have easily got into position to get the ball and went to work without hesitation and it would have opened up way more because no coach is going to double team in transition so it would have been Collier in a one on one situation and if a double happens to come to get one cut to the basket and it's an easy layup.

With that being said, I think Collier is a great player and the best big in the country in my eyes but I would love to see what she can do with another year under Coach Harris. This time with summer workouts involved. I don't think she is ready for wnba just yet but she will easily be a top 3 pick regardless of if she goes this year or next year so no point in rushing the decision.

 

[kurupt]

Never will shy from criticism, because it does not matter coming from non athletes. You love to know who's who... so I am an ex coach, ex player, ex collegiate player of this game. Give credit also...but I don't look for you too. And that is fine. I only want good criticism of what you are seeing and not just speaking what you do not know. again, folk are free to say whatever, that is why I will speak up. Hey guess what...played all 40 minutes. Didn't foul out, held a very BIG girl to 5... and yes, looked upset at times. But to gain your acceptance, she had to do every single thing perfect to gain your best wishes. I see growth and maturity, more games to come, and praying for Lauren to get on the court. They will only gel as it goes along.
I know the kind of folk you like on this team. And that's not a problem, either. You will not be the last of the critics. Makes athletes stronger!!!! trust me.
Carry on. I'm signing out for good. You have nothing else to do but talk on this thing. lol

You don't care about the criticism or think that I don't have anything else better to do while you right 2/3 paragraph responses to anyone that critiques Charlie, Interesting. I agree with most of the actual basketball things in this post though.

 

[loyallonghorn]

I'm signing out for good. You have nothing else to do but talk on this thing. lol

This is a message board for all fans to gather to discuss and "talk". What other purpose does a message board provide but to "talk". There's bound to be disagreements, but hopefully, we can disagree respectfully without getting emotional and calling people names, or insulting others, or with aloofness declare that no one else except you know anything about basketball. Those are real turnoffs. Best wishes cc fan, Hook'em.

 

[Jacob Johnson]

And for those of you who wish so bad for Charli. How was she still the highest scorer on the team, still, after not taking a shot in the 3rd. So they shot the "itsh" out of the ball in the 3rd and still, no better stats. What are you guys so afraid to admit. That she is the best shooter on the team and they didnt get her the ball or position her to take better shots in the game. Rebecca Lobo, said it best, but i only hear you say they dogged Charli in the commentary. Call it both ways. I wish her the best, and as I said years ago, it will take a special coach to coach a special player. period.

What are you talking about? Nobody in this forum wished bad for Collier. Everyone is on her side and wants her to be the best version of herself. Yes Collier needs to be spread out and not just on the block and yes the guards were jacking up shots but Collier was not perfect. She has a lot to work on as does everyone else including the coaches. Coach Vic is honestly the best coach we could have gotten. He just fits so well with Texas and what I love most is that he keeps it real with his players. He is not going to hype you up when you do what you're supposed to do but he will tell you when you didn't. Which is exactly what we need and clearly it works because his resume speaks for itself. Collier can only get better from here and continue growing.