2021 Recruiting - Football

[Pomspoms]

Urban Myth?

You have to be ******* kidding me.

Murders - that's plural
Rapes and sexual assaults by players & recruits
Robberies
Assaults
Thefts
NCAA sanctions
and it goes on

I'd consider Barry or Jackie first and maybe Howard Schnellenberger

Myth is king of the slimeballs

NO!! Hell NO! NO ******* WAY!

Ok I see your disdain but who would be a good replacement for Herman if ain't Urban Myth?

 

[SabreHorn]

That's the problem, there are NO great coaches AVAILABLE

Great coaches:

Little Billy Powers so humped the puppy on Saban and the apartment deal, lake house or not, he ain't coming. (BTW, they own 9 lake houses)

Dabo ain't leaving "Auburn with a lake" until Saban retires, and maybe not then.

I don't see anyone else in their class.

People that do more with less:

Gary Patterson
Mike Gundy
Larry Fedora
Mike Leach

One of those ain't moving, the other three will be objectionable to the BMDs

 

[erbutch]

That's the problem, there are NO great coaches AVAILABLE

Great coaches:

Little Billy Powers so humped the puppy on Saban and the apartment deal, lake house or not, he ain't coming. (BTW, they own 9 lake houses)

Dabo ain't leaving "Auburn with a lake" until Saban retires, and maybe not then.

I don't see anyone else in their class.

People that do more with less:

Gary Patterson
Mike Gundy
Larry Fedora
Mike Leach

One of those ain't moving, the other three will be objectionable to the BMDs

Patterson & Gundy are not leavin for Texas. Cry baby players could not handle Leach.

 

[caryhorn]

Urban Myth?

You have to be ******* kidding me.

Murders - that's plural
Rapes and sexual assaults by players & recruits
Robberies
Assaults
Thefts
NCAA sanctions
and it goes on

I'd consider Barry or Jackie first and maybe Howard Schnellenberger

Myth is king of the slimeballs

NO!! Hell NO! NO ******* WAY!

UM is both: slimeball and great coach. not every slimeball can win MNC at two schools and take an inferior football school to an 11 win season--only a great coach can do that.

Wouldn't want UM in the same room with a son or daughter of mine. But that wasn't the point. The point is whether TH is a great coach and if he will begin to show it in our next season--whenever that may be.

 

[caryhorn]

Perhaps the best way to look at it as a business decision. They think they can play in the NFL. Alabama gives them a better shot at that than we do. Thus, a rational choice.

Not sure I agree that Bama gives them a better shot to play in the NFL. So many great linemen have come from small schools that don't play big time competition: Grambling, Bethune Cookman, etc, etc. Larry Allen, Nate Newton, etc for the cowboys are just two. There are dozens of examples over the years.

These kids come with media spotlight and pedigree. They will be watched and evaluated every step of the way. Dad will make sure of it with his connections.

Pro scouts don't miss much. You get a shot one way or another; either through the draft or as an undrafted free agent.

All this to make my point that if they are good enough, they can come to Texas, and get into the NFL with no problem what so ever.

 

[Joe Fan]

That's the problem, there are NO great coaches AVAILABLE
Great coaches:
Little Billy Powers so humped the puppy on Saban and the apartment deal, lake house or not, he ain't coming. (BTW, they own 9 lake houses)
Dabo ain't leaving "Auburn with a lake" until Saban retires, and maybe not then.
I don't see anyone else in their class.
People that do more with less:
Gary Patterson
Mike Gundy
Larry Fedora
Mike Leach
One of those ain't moving, the other three will be objectionable to the BMDs

Stoops found one pretty easy

 

[SabreHorn]

Stoops found one pretty easy

Yes, but he ain't coming to Austin, and we don't have one laying around our coaching pool.

 

[Joe Fan]

Not sure I agree that Bama gives them a better shot to play in the NFL. ,,,.

Ive addressed this in the past - since Nick Saban took over as Alabama HC in 2007, they have the best on-the-field record in CFB (114-18) and have produced 18 NFL first-round picks.

"Alabama under Saban has basically become an NFL draft factory. While they have been doing that, the Longhorns were busy tripping over themselves. Alabama's worst season in that span of time when we stunk was 10-3. And they have 4 NCs over the period.
This last draft, they had an OT taken at #10 overall
In 2019, they had another OL taken at #11 (2 OLs in total drafted)
They have produced 4 first round OTs the last decade.
They not only churn out NFL talent season after season, they also win games.
As currently constructed, they are not easy to compete against even if on the subject of in-state, triple-legacy recruits. And get this, their current OL coach (from 2017 I think) has a checkered past with a long line of former players in trouble with the law and otherwise suspended. You would think that might get the attention of a couple of UT-educated, self-aware parents. But it didnt. Nor did the chance to block for Bijan Robinson in the future. Because you know what else that Bama OL coach has? NFL coaching experience."
2021 Recruiting - Football​

 

[Joe Fan]

Yes, but he ain't coming to Austin, and we don't have one laying around our coaching pool.

But if they can pull good coaches out of their rears while stealing land from Native Americans, why cant we find just one good one?

 

[Joe Fan]

Gunnar - Mir stehen die haare zu berge!

 

[SabreHorn]

Before Patterson hired Strong, the last AD at Texas to hire a football coach was back in 1957. I like Deloss, and he was a great politician, Mr Teflon.

Now we have a great AD, and the coaching pool is dry. Where is the next great young coach? Who knows, but I hope Chris has a line on him. I have made my preference known.

 

[Joe Fan]

Before Patterson hired Strong,,.

I would argue he was more of a Bill Powers' hire than a Steve Patterson hire. And I even think it was a condition for Patterson getting the job

 

[caryhorn]

Stoops found one pretty easy

Good point.^^^ And no one, Stoops or Riley himself, knew that Riley would do as well as he has. He has been great, and he may turn out to be a great coach long term.
It's always dicey hiring a new coach unless they are proven. Example: Nick Saben. He was a head coach 9 years before he had his first 10 win (pre bowl) season. LSU hired him from Mich State where he was better than average, but not great by any means. At LSU he was very successful and the rest is history.

Dabo Swinney was an assistant for six years before being hired as head coach by Clemson. No one knew Dabo would become the great coach he is today.

Bob Stoops was a career assistant until ou took a shot to hire him and the rest is history; a great coach (as much as I can't stand him).

DKR had a modest career, winning but not outstanding, until UT took a chance and hired a former sooner. Turned out a great hire of a great man and a great Coach.

Pete Carroll was a college assistant, NFL assistant and a failed NFL head coach before USC hired him. He found "it," has since won NCAA and NFL championships. Is considered a great coach and a future Hall of Famer.

It is usually an unknown how a coach is going to do unless you somehow pry a great coach to come to your school--which rarely happens. Saben, Swinney, Stoops, Royal Carroll, were not considered "great" coaches--Hall of Fame Coaches--until they were promoted into the job where their talent rose to the occasion. They were just OK for years before their "greatness" truly emerged.

The clock is definitely ticking for TH. He needs to do it this year, and keep it going.

 

[SabreHorn]

Saban was hired by two Bama alums in June before his season in Miami. Neither's name was Malfee$cent$ Moore, who had nothing to do with it.

Dabo was a default hire when Clemson couldn't get anyone else to take the job. First few years were really rough.

Stoops was hired on advice from Bill Snyder and Hayden Fry

DKR was hired on recommendation of Bud Wilkinson

Pete Carroll was a desperation hire to appease a fractured and disgruntled alumni base

Unfortunately, the Frank Broyles, Hayden Fry, Bill Snyder coaching trees seem to have run out of limbs

 

[Joe Fan]

Good point.^^^ And no one, Stoops or Riley himself, knew that Riley would do as well as he has. ...

To me, it felt like Stoops did know. Still feels that way. Otherwise he would not have stepped aside when he did. I guess one never really knows about these type of things but I think its fair to at least say Stoops was smart enough to realize what he had in Riley and that he could not let him get away. The one way to be certain of that was to promote him. And do it right away, no time to waste. I may get a bunch of poop emojis for this but it was kind of the opposite of what Mack Brown did when he zealously clung to his job.

 

[Pomspoms]

How about us getting Lou holtz!

 

[Austin_Bill]

I don't remember the reasons behind why we hired Fred Akers, I do however remember the hiring of David McWilliams. He was our DC and a alumni favorite. Fred Fired him and he became the HC at Tech. He did pretty well for one year and we fired Fred and brought him back as our HC. McWilliams didn't know jack about the offensive side of the ball, but he could coach defense. When we fired him, we went out and got a guy that knew offense. John Mackovic was a pretty good offensive mind but he couldn't coach defense to save his life. When we fired him, we got Mack Brown, a guy that probably wasn't the best at either offense or defense, but he was a great CEO and he knew how to let his assistants coach.

I won't get into the reasons for taking Strong except it didn't work out. Now we have Herman, a guy who was supposed to be the next big thing in coaching. Except he wasn't ready for such a position.

As of right now, I'm thinking of 3 guys that can come in and do the job. Herm Edwards from Arizona State, Jack Del Rio, an NFL guy who knows how to lead, and Matt Campbell from Iowa State. I'm going to also toss in another name. Chris Klieman from KSU. I think he is going to be the next Bill Snyder for them.

 

[I_Dont_Exist]

I don't remember the reasons behind why we hired Fred Akers, I do however remember the hiring of David McWilliams. He was our DC and a alumni favorite. Fred Fired him and he became the HC at Tech. He did pretty well for one year and we fired Fred and brought him back as our HC. McWilliams didn't know jack about the offensive side of the ball, but he could coach defense. When we fired him, we went out and got a guy that knew offense. John Mackovic was a pretty good offensive mind but he couldn't coach defense to save his life. When we fired him, we got Mack Brown, a guy that probably wasn't the best at either offense or defense, but he was a great CEO and he knew how to let his assistants coach.

I won't get into the reasons for taking Strong except it didn't work out. Now we have Herman, a guy who was supposed to be the next big thing in coaching. Except he wasn't ready for such a position.

As of right now, I'm thinking of 3 guys that can come in and do the job. Herm Edwards from Arizona State, Jack Del Rio, an NFL guy who knows how to lead, and Matt Campbell from Iowa State. I'm going to also toss in another name. Chris Klieman from KSU. I think he is going to be the next Bill Snyder for them.

I'm with you on Campbell. Klieman is a maybe. Edwards and Del Rio are non-starters for me. Both had losing records as NFL HCs. Edwards is 15-11 at ASU.

Sabre is right about the dearth of great coaches who would take the job. We're looking at guys like Paul Chryst and Bronco Mendenhall. After Fleck and Campbell the next hot coach is Satterfield at Louisville who we probably wouldn't consider due to Strong which is idiotic in my opinion.

 

[ViperHorn]

Pete Carroll was a desperation hire to appease a fractured and disgruntled alumni base

Seems to be every day normal for USC.

As of right now, I'm thinking of 3 guys that can come in and do the job. Herm Edwards from Arizona State, Jack Del Rio, an NFL guy who knows how to lead, and Matt Campbell from Iowa State. I'm going to also toss in another name. Chris Klieman from KSU. I think he is going to be the next Bill Snyder for them.

Edwards is too old to be considered a long term solution (which is what is needed). Del Rio just seems to be missing something. Riley just took over the ou "system" which every except the one year wonders took-up and prospered:

Years Record
Bud Wilkinson 1947-1963 145-29-4
Gomer Jones 1964-1965 9-11-1
Jim Mackenzie 1966 6-4
Chuck Fairbanks 1967-1972 52-15-1
Barry Switzer 1973-1988 157-29-4
Gary Gibbs 1989-1994 44-23-2
H. Schnellenberger 1995 5-5-1
John Blake 1996-1998 12-22
Bob Stoops 1999-2016 190-48
Lincoln Riley 2017- 24-4

They have hired duds but shed them fairly quickly. Gibbs is the outlier but he had issues beating Texas. Wilkinson started the modern ways of stretching the limits of the rules which Switzer "modernized" and Stoops perfected as far as conference play.

Herman is his worst enemy, but Sabre is correct - the needed next Brown type is out there somewhere.

 

[Joe Fan]

Seems to be every day normal for USC.
Edwards is too old to be considered a long term solution (which is what is needed). Del Rio just seems to be missing something. Riley just took over the ou "system" which every except the one year wonders took-up and prospered:
Years Record
Bud Wilkinson 1947-1963 145-29-4
Gomer Jones 1964-1965 9-11-1
Jim Mackenzie 1966 6-4
Chuck Fairbanks 1967-1972 52-15-1
Barry Switzer 1973-1988 157-29-4
Gary Gibbs 1989-1994 44-23-2
H. Schnellenberger 1995 5-5-1
John Blake 1996-1998 12-22
Bob Stoops 1999-2016 190-48
Lincoln Riley 2017- 24-4

They have hired duds but shed them fairly quickly. Gibbs is the outlier but he had issues beating Texas. Wilkinson started the modern ways of stretching the limits of the rules which Switzer "modernized" and Stoops perfected as far as conference play.

Herman is his worst enemy, but Sabre is correct - the needed next Brown type is out there somewhere.

Gibbs, Smelleyberger and Blake were my favorites. Bring one of them back
Maybe with only half the land they used to have, they will only be able to afford one of these drunks

 

[gahornphan]

I think it’s too early to give up on Herman. We just need to attract more NFL aspiring players and the only way to do that is to start CONSISTENTLY sending more players to the league. Hell, they don’t even need to be that productive when they get there, just get drafted. Early. And it does NO GOOD to point to the two Earls (Campbell and Thomas), Ricky, Vince and Colt, and as examples of our “success” in sending players to the NFL, when talking to a 16-17 yo kid.

 

[caryhorn]

I think it’s too early to give up on Herman. We just need to attract more NFL aspiring players and the only way to do that is to start CONSISTENTLY sending more players to the league. Hell, they don’t even need to be that productive when they get there, just get drafted. Early. And it does NO GOOD to point to the two Earls (Campbell and Thomas), Ricky, Vince and Colt, and as examples of our “success” in sending players to the NFL, when talking to a 16-17 yo kid.

I haven't given up on TH, but he has to move beyond the 7-5 and 8-4 seasons. He needs to win the B12 this year and compete in the BCS. He has a good defense and an excellent QB returning, a decent O line, good enough receivers and good enough running backs.

If he can't beat OU twice this year, and beat the troublesome TCU's and ISU's of the world with this team and staff, then he is not the person to lead UT back to the high levels that Hornfans seem to demand.

 

[caryhorn]

Now we have a great AD, and the coaching pool is dry. Where is the next great young coach? Who knows, but I hope Chris has a line on him.

Just because we don't know who the next great coach is, doesn't mean the coaching pool is dry. I think that CDC is a great AD. And if he doesn't have a line on who the next great coach(es) out there may be, then he is not a great AD. I believe he absolutely has a few names on his list should TH fail to bring home the B12 championship this year.

There are always great Coaches out there that are not yet identified. They are only identified when the right school with the right resources hires them and the combination of 1) right school + 2) right coach = emergence of greatness.

I listed a bunch of examples of this in a previous post. No reason it can't happen here. UT has all the resources for the right coach to make it happen.

To give Charlie Strong some credit he said upon arrival at UT: "If I can't succeed at the University of Texas then I can't succeed." (or something to that effect) And he could not and did not succeed here due to his deficiencies, not due to any lack of resources at UT.
I think the questions about TH will be answered by the end of the B12 championship game (if we have a season).

 

[Joe Fan]

I think it’s too early to give up on Herman. We just need to attract more NFL aspiring players and the only way to do that is to start CONSISTENTLY sending more players to the league. Hell, they don’t even need to be that productive when they get there, just get drafted. Early. And it does NO GOOD to point to the two Earls (Campbell and Thomas), Ricky, Vince and Colt, and as examples of our “success” in sending players to the NFL, when talking to a 16-17 yo kid.

He is getting the chance. Supposedly CDC told the BMDs he was willing to let Shaka or Herman go, but not both at the same time. But then circumstances intervened to change the calculus on all of it and so now both are staying at least for awhile.

 

[Joe Fan]

...To give Charlie Strong some credit he said upon arrival at UT: "If I can't succeed at the University of Texas then I can't succeed." (or something to that effect) And he could not and did not succeed here due to his deficiencies, not due to any lack of resources at UT....

And now he is a defensive analyst for Satan.
Red McCombs was unavailable for comment.

 

[Pomspoms]

And now he is a defensive analyst for Satan.
Red McCombs was unavailable for comment.

I remember when we were choosing between strong, Franklin and maybe someone else, I was pulling hard for Franklin. I was right. Just had a feeling about him. He's not elite but alot better than Strong. Who knows what Franklin might have accomplished here in the fertile recruiting lands of Texas. Strong was our John Blake.

 

[Joe Fan]

I remember when we were choosing between strong, Franklin and maybe someone else, I was pulling hard for Franklin. I was right. Just had a feeling about him. He's not elite but alot better than Strong. Who knows what Franklin might have accomplished here in the fertile recruiting lands of Texas. Strong was our John Blake.

Powers is still happy with the results.

 

[SabreHorn]

Franklin was NEVER in consideration when Strong was fired, not sure he got a call when Powers was scrambling after the Luck debacle.

 

[Galvestonhorn]

That’s true Sabre. I don’t believe there was any serious consideration given to any other coach after the Sabin f—- up but Charlie Strong.

Strong was the heavy odds on favorite at the books, because Texas couldn’t wait to say they hired a black coach to show the world how far they had come.

 

[LHABSOB]

The rich keep getting richer. Bama is putting together what may be the best offensive line class ever-
T. Brockermeyer (# 1 OT)
J. Brockermeyer (# 1 OC)
JC Latham (# 5 OT)
TJ Ferguson ( #2 OG)