2021 Recruiting - Football

Sydhank said:
.. I am ok to listen and learn and have empathy for experiences different than my own. And yes, athletes get a very valuable education and amazing support in exchange for their physical contributions. As they should.
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Put a realistic number to it
 
BurntOrangeLH said:
Joe, you and the people who think like you ....

Basically you are saying, "You wanna be here boy you gotsa conform to massa's expectatiosa."
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This is racist in and of itself. Which makes you one of the people you hate

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Sydhank said:
Put a realistic number to what? Listening to student athletes' concerns? Or the value of their physical contributions and risks on a multi billion dollar industry?
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It the same question that has been asked twice now
Clearly one you seek to avoid
Why are you afraid of that?
 
Sydhank said:
Put a realistic number to what? Listening to student athletes' concerns? Or the value of their physical contributions and risks on a multi billion dollar industry?
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I shall assume it is the latter and you want to put a $ value on the education and free shoes(!) they get in exchange for being the human capital driving a multi billion dollar industry to entertain us. 21,000 injuries in NCAA football last year with 800+ related to the spine and I will assume more than a few to the head. These athletes generally work their asses off and put their bodies on the line in exchange for those scholarships and shoes and shirts and massages. They are allowed and moreso have earned the right to speak about their perspective. So, sorry Joe, I don't know the equation but I am confident that the math works better for the industry else it wouldn't exist. I know how sacred a song is and old statues and names on buildings...just also listen a bit with an open mind. You might hear something or even learn something from someone that has a different experience than you.
 
Pomspoms said:
I agree with you joe, but sometimes compromise is the best road.
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I fully expect our admin to roll over. They may even bring up new demands to concede that the players had not even thought of yet.

But giving into extortion is always a bad idea.
Maybe next season they decide the AD mist be a person of color. TCU would probably be glad to get CDC back.
Then the next season they will declare themselves vegan and demand Bevo must go. Would you be willing to make that 'compromise' too?
This is the issue with giving in. Eventually they will make a demand that it unacceptable to you. But by then it will too late. Now is the time to stand up for yourself, if you are ever going to.
 
Sydhank said:
I shall assume it is the latter and you want to put a $ value on the education and free shoes(!) they get in exchange for being the human capital driving a multi billion dollar industry to entertain us. 21,000 injuries in NCAA football last year with 800+ related to the spine and I will assume more than a few to the head. These athletes generally work their asses off and put their bodies on the line in exchange for those scholarships and shoes and shirts and massages. They are allowed and moreso have earned the right to speak about their perspective. So, sorry Joe, I don't know the equation but I am confident that the math works better for the industry else it wouldn't exist. I know how sacred a song is and old statues and names on buildings...just also listen a bit with an open mind. You might hear something or even learn something from someone that has a different experience than you.
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I didnt think you would do it.
But its an important issue so hiding from it is not the answer. Running these programs is a very expensive endeavor. And then Tittle IX effectively doubles the cost of it all
 
Not trying to be obtuse. I assume you mean I am not putting an accurate $$$ value a scholarship athlete from the University? I tried to answer that for you by saying I dont know the equation. Because, well, I dont know the equation. I am confident that student athletes invest heavily and most give all they have in return many times to their physical peril.

You will also not find it surprising that I dont agree with your position on "giving in." By that logic nothing would ever change. There is a long list of things that have changed in civil rights and athletics over the course of the last century because people were willing to change the way things are.

I have always enjoyed your recruiting updates here. For years now. I am sorry to hear you are protesting and not willing to continue feed us your insights as you are one of the best and I love this stuff. I respect your decision to protest and sit out in protest of the threats of sitting out by our athletes.
Joe Fan said:
I didnt think you would do it.
But its an important issue. Running these programs is a very expensive endeavor. And Tittle IX reflectively doubles the cost of everything.
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Sydhank said:
I shall assume it is the latter and you want to put a $ value on the education and free shoes(!) they get in exchange for being the human capital driving a multi billion dollar industry to entertain us. 21,000 injuries in NCAA football last year with 800+ related to the spine and I will assume more than a few to the head. ....
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The unusual 'free shoes' non sequitur makes you seem like the same poster posting under different names. Why would you do that?

Anyway, if you care so much about injuries, then let us just unplug the whole thing. I am not sure colleges and universities should even be part of this now gigantic televised sports industry. What does one even have to do with the other?

And, if we do that, what do you think will happen to all the players? NFL jobs are fixed to a certain number. And unlike baseball and BBall, there are no foreign opportunities. And, without football, most are not getting into the university of their choice, if that was even ever a goal. So, what do you say? Let us excise ourselves out of it all. Our school be probably be better off completely independent from the corrupting influence of televised sports. Right?
 
Joe Fan said:
The unusual 'free shoes' non sequitur makes you seem like the same poster posting under different names. Why would you do that?

Anyway, if you care so much about injuries, then let us just unplug the whole thing. I am not sure colleges and universities should even be part of this now gigantic televised sports industry. What does one even have to do with the other?

And, if we do that, what do you think will happen to all the players? NFL jobs are fixed to a certain number. And unlike baseball and BBall, there are no foreign opportunities. And, without football, most are not getting into the university of their choice, if that was even ever a goal. So, what do you say? Let us excise ourselves out of it all. Our school be probably be better off completely independent from the corrupting influence of televised sports. Right?
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Well, first, no not posting under different names. I felt the shoes thing was crazy. It was stated in support of the value an athlete was receiving which was the exact point we are discussing.

Second, as we are discussing the value an athlete receives from the university, you cannot ignore the value (and risk) that the athlete provides or assumes. That’s why injuries matter. If the value of a massage or shoes is to be considered should the risk of injury not be considered in the equation?

Trying to explain that I have a different opinion than you. And no, I am not trying to be obtuse simply because I think differently than you. I am trying to offer a respectful and logical opinion. You clearly disagree, that’s ok.
 
Sydhank said:
....Trying to explain that I have a different opinion than you. And no, I am not trying to be obtuse simply because I think differently than you. I am trying to offer a respectful and logical opinion. You clearly disagree, that’s ok.
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No one would try and argue college sports isnt a huge business. That's silly. At the university level, Longhorn football pays for all the Title IX programs. How else could we afford all of those schollies? (+ housing and food and books and masseuses and smoothies)

Sydhank said:
....Second, as we are discussing the value an athlete receives from the university....
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That is not accurate, as you are no doubt already aware. This discussion began with me asking the cost of each student athlete to the university. I have now asked it 3 times. Despite the attempt to 'move the goal posts,' it remains -- put a dollar guess to the costs of all the perks we give our "student athletes." To make you feel better about it, please add the cost of free shoes (and all the other free merchandise). The fact that you keep avoiding this will go on your permanent record. Here is the list again, since you seem to keep missing it. And remember, you promised not to be obtuse ---

Let us say that you were sending a child to UT, and the kid got in honestly on his or her own merit. You wanted your child to have everything the football players have.
But no aide or scholarship money is available either of you
All costs are to be borne by you alone

What is the out of pocket dollar figure to you for --
-- 4 years of tuition, books and all other related 'fees'
-- 4 years rent in a nice place
-- 4 years of good food (no .99 cent Saigon egg rolls)
-- 4 years of academic tutoring
-- 4 years of physical/strength training from an accredited trainer
-- 4 years of (my favorite) daily protein shakes and or smoothies
-- 4 years of 'deep tissue massage' as needed
-- 4 years of top level medical care
How much?


*I did the math on the smoothies using what I pay at Smoothie King. The cost for this alone was over $10,000
The av cost of 'massage therapist' in 2020 is $100. If we assume 5 a week for 4 years, the total comes to $104,000
2020 Average Massage Therapist Cost (with Price Factors)​
 
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Sydhank said:
Well, first, no not posting under different names. I felt the shoes thing was crazy. It was stated in support of the value an athlete was receiving which was the exact point we are discussing...k.
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I m dubious but OK. You do at least write clearly enough that a response can be given which sets you apart from the other "FSU" poster who is unable to do that much.
 
Joe Fan said:
No one would try and argue college sports isnt a huge business. That's silly. At the university level, it pays for all the Title IX programs.

But that is not the question that has now been posed 3 times. Put a dollar guess to the costs of all the perks we give our "student athletes" -- and to make you will better about it, please add the cost of free shoes (and all the other free merchandise). Here is the list again, since you seem to keep missing it. And remember, you promised not to be obtuse ---

Let us say that you were sending a child to UT, and the kid got in honestly on his or her own merit. You wanted your child to have everything the football players have.
But no aide or scholarship money is available either of you
All costs are to be borne by you alone

What is the out of pocket dollar figure to you for --
-- 4 years of tuition, books and all other related 'fees'
-- 4 years rent in a nice place
-- 4 years of good food (no .99 cent Saigon egg rolls)
-- 4 years of academic tutoring
-- 4 years of physical/strength training from an accredited trainer
-- 4 years of (my favorite) daily protein shakes and or smoothies
-- 4 years of 'deep tissue massage' as needed
-- 4 years of top level medical care
How much?


*I did the math on the smoothies using what I pay at Smoothie King. The cost for this alone was over $10,000
The av cost of 'massage therapist' in 2020 is $100. If we assume 5 a week for 4 years, the total comes to $104,000
2020 Average Massage Therapist Cost (with Price Factors)​
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I dont know any other way to answer this more clearly...I DONT KNOW! Not avoiding your question. I recognize there is massive value provided to scholarship athletes at our University. I do not know the exact dollar value. Your summary looks great. And for the love of God I wont say it again I promise, I dont know the equation. I said I felt confident that NCAA football was winning the economic comparison however. I also believe athletes risk a lot, put forth massive commitment and effort and deserve to at minimum be heard.
 
Sydhank said:
I dont know any other way to answer this more clearly...I DONT KNOW! Not avoiding your question. I recognize there is massive value provided to scholarship athletes at our University. I do not know the exact dollar value. Your summary looks great. And for the love of God I wont say it again I promise, I dont know the equation. I said I felt confident that NCAA football was winning the economic comparison however. I also believe athletes risk a lot, put forth massive commitment and effort and deserve to at minimum be heard.
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OK, since you have no ability to object, then you would agree with my original estimate that we have sunk costs of $1M per player on average per every 4 years. You are agreeing to this. $250k per year. Times 85 (which is over $21 M per year)

Should we even be in this business?
 
Joe Fan said:
OK, since you have no ability to object, then you would agree with my original estimate that we have sunk costs of $1M per player on average per every 4 years. You are agreeing to this. $250k per year. Times 85 (which is over $21 M per year)

Should we even be in this business?
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Your estimate could even be conservative. Double it if you like. It doesn't buy silence. It also pales in comparison to the revenue generated. I shall not convince you of anything, of that I am certain. I have to go back to work now. Have a good day. I hope the University finds a path forward that is satisfactory for all parties.
 
One of my biggest gripes is with Herman. He made the Floyd murder about racism, when he doesn't have a f****** clue as to why that man killed Floyd. He then went to the media with this bull**** idea that UT fans are racists who only care about players during the 90 minutes of the game, and not willing to let their daughters date football players. I have a question for him ? Do the players give a **** about fans other than wanting them to cheer for them ? Herman himself tells his players nothing and nobody matters outside that locker room..... I think he should be fired with cause...What kind of a representative to the University is he ???? Fire him before you remove anything or change anything else.
 
MajesticII said:
... I have a question for him ? Do the players give a **** about fans other than wanting them to cheer for them ? Herman himself tells his players nothing and nobody matters outside that locker room..... I think he should be fired with cause...What kind of a representative to the University is he ???? Fire him before you remove anything or change anything else.
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Clearly not. We often hear calls for a "dialogue." Or they say, "let's have a conversation." It's not true. They dont mean it. In order to have something like that then everyone gets to speak. But this is not what is happening. All they want to do is lecture the rest of us, with no rebuttal. If you try to speak, as we just saw in this very thread above, they start the name calling. Ask a fairly simple, straight forward question, get called a racist.

The problem is that there is another side to the story. There is another shoe (not a free one) to drop. There is another part of the equation, arguably the biggest part. But it's never discussed because it cannot be discussed. It is forbidden and censored. They are even trying to erase history itself as if that would change anything today or tomorrow. In many ways, trying to talk to them is like dealing with children.

Nonetheless, I maintain that if our little country is ever going to move ahead and get beyond this, then these verboten matters must be put on the table for discussion. By all. It's the only way forward. Honesty and facts still matter in this world, even if it seems like they dont at this little moment in time. This is the one and only way to find common solutions that will work for everyone.
 
I miss complaining about recruiting, stars, ranking, who runs this state, etc.

can we all just agree to disagree ? We come here to be football fans, not to be lectured by either side
 
there have been a lot of 'personal attacks' on here over the years; although moderators say they won't put up with it!!!
 
Omniscient.one said:
I keep clicking on the wrong link. Anyone got a link to the 2021 recruiting thread?
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I hear there is a little known recruit named Malcolm X, as in the X factor, rising fast on the recruiting boards. Really good at getting separation and dividing the field.
 
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mchammer said:
I hear there is a little known recruit named Malcolm X, as in the X factor, rising fast on the recruiting boards. Really good at getting separation.
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Oh snap! Wouldn’t want to be the person that was directed at. I can’t wait for all the excellent puns sure to come for the next 5 months, I mean years.
 
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