2018 Senate (& House)

[VYFan]

From my perspective, any and all politicians with multiple sexual harassment allegations in the past need to leave office. It doesn't matter whether you are R, D or I.

You can't really mean that everyone who has 2 or more "allegations" against him must leave office? I live in a world where I expose false "allegations" on a regular basis, and I imagine politics is even sleazier than personal injury law--oh, maybe I take that back....

Anyway, surely it needs to be "credible" or "proved" or something, and not just "wherever two or more are gathered in mutual contempt."

 

[Seattle Husker]

You can't really mean that everyone who has 2 or more "allegations" against him must leave office? I live in a world where I expose false "allegations" on a regular basis, and I imagine politics is even sleazier than personal injury law--oh, maybe I take that back....

Anyway, surely it needs to be "credible" or "proved" or something, and not just "wherever two or more are gathered in mutual contempt."

As I stated with Franken, 1 I'll given them the benefit of the doubt. With 2 I'd be concerned. 3 or more and that's a little too much to bear.

 

[Joe Fan]

If this guy is correct, the dam is about to break on those obscene Congressional settlements

 

[Joe Fan]

Also sounds like another US Senator is going down

 

[Mr. Deez]

As I stated with Franken, 1 I'll given them the benefit of the doubt. With 2 I'd be concerned. 3 or more and that's a little too much to bear.

I think you have to look at the merits of each individual case no matter how many or how few there are. I think the real impact player in the Franken fiasco was Leann Tweeden (not the number of accusers) for a few reasons. First, she was and is an entertainer with no apparent political ties, no need to exploit the situation for fame or money (because she already had both), and therefore no apparent reason to lie. Second, there was documented evidence of him acting like a jackass to her (the boob grab or possible grab). It doesn't necessarily conclusively prove her story, but like the Billy Bush tape, it's damning to him, and unlike the Bush tape, it's specific to the accuser (Tweeden). Third, she presented well when making the allegation and did it "the right way" if there is a right or wrong way. She went on Twitter first and then took questions from media figures on her own and answered them well. There were no "prepared statements." There was no Gloria Allred.

Without Tweeden's allegations, Franken most likely isn't quitting the Senate. Her story was almost impossible to deny (though he initially tried to deny the worst parts of it), which gave her credibility. His other accusers were able to essentially borrow that credibility, even though they lacked her evidence, because if you conclusively acted like a jerk to one person, people tend to believe others when they claim you acted like a jerk to them.

 

[Joe Fan]

....Without Tweeden's allegations, Franken most likely isn't quitting the Senate. ...

I would add two items --

One was the pic. Visual images tend to stick in the memory longer than the spoken or written word. It's one reason memes are so powerful.

Two is timing. Sucks for Franken but his own people really want and think they can get that Bama Senate seat. Without this election and Moore, I doubt Franken would be leaving.

 

[Joe Fan]

I would add two items --
One was the pic. Visual images tend to stick in the memory longer than the spoken or written word. It's one reason memes are so powerful.,,,,,,

Speaking of the visual
Good lord
What a choice

 

[OUBubba]

I like that one of Roy Moore's defenses initially was that he never dated any of those girls "without their mother's permission". I never dated a girl where I needed her mother's permission. I still would laugh myself to tears at the rash of hell me and my boys would give one of our buds if he came to the tailgate with a kid and he was 17. He'd never live it down.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I like that one of Roy Moore's defenses initially was that he never dated any of those girls "without their mother's permission".

Wait, what girls? I thought he didn't know any of these people.

 

[OUBubba]

Wait, what girls? I thought he didn't know any of these people.

"he assured Hannity: “I don’t remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother.”

That means, to me, that he recalls more than one instance where he dated a "girl" after seeking permission of their mother. He's a judge. He knows how to be precise in his language "arts".

 

[mchammer]

"he assured Hannity: “I don’t remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother.”

That means, to me, that he recalls more than one instance where he dated a "girl" after seeking permission of their mother. He's a judge. He knows how to be precise in his language "arts".

What does it say that people prefer a creep over a Dem?

 

[Seattle Husker]

What does it say that people prefer a creep over a Dem?

We're polarized. We've made out our ideological opposites to be monsters. That's the only explanation for preferring an alleged pedophile over a Democrat that has successful history as a federal prosecutor albeit is socially liberal.

 

[UTChE96]

That's the only explanation for preferring an alleged pedophile over a Democrat that has successful history as a federal prosecutor albeit is socially liberal.

If the Dems were smart enough to run a pro-life candidate in red state Alabama then the Senate seat would have easily been theirs.

 

[Garmel]

If the Dems were smart enough to run a pro-life candidate in red state Alabama then the Senate seat would have easily been theirs.

Exactly. Many conservatives will not vote for someone who believes that the unborn aren't human beings.

 

[Seattle Husker]

If the Dems were smart enough to run a pro-life candidate in red state Alabama then the Senate seat would have easily been theirs.

That would have certainly helped. I've never understood this idea that a party has to have ideological purity. You're more optimistic than I am that simply having a "D" next to Doug Jones name wouldn't be enough to vote for Moore. Afterall, he's a former federal prosecutor that is being labeled by "soft on crime". Reality doesn't necessarily matter in Alabama right now.

 

[Garmel]

Reality doesn't necessarily matter in Alabama right now.

Your reality may not be someone else's.

 

[I35]

We're polarized. We've made out our ideological opposites to be monsters. That's the only explanation for preferring an alleged pedophile over a Democrat that has successful history as a federal prosecutor albeit is socially liberal.

When one party loses an election, they usually reverse gears and stop many things they are doing and try to come back to the middle somewhat. Not this group of Dems. They doubled down on stupidity. They are still trying the identity politics and are resisting everything because they are still way over to the left. You can say it's because of DT that they are resisting, but that doesn't matter because everyone can see that it hurts America with that approach. Their policies didn't work at all and now DT's policies is a grand slam. Plus most despises the MSM and the Dems have welcomed their help with open arms. But both party establishments and the MSM are underestimating the size of the silent majority. American people are tired of their corruption and all the BS they bring.

 

[OUBubba]

When one party loses an election, they usually reverse gears and stop many things they are doing and try to come back to the middle somewhat. Not this group of Dems. They doubled down on stupidity. They are still trying the identity politics and are resisting everything because they are still way over to the left. You can say it's because of DT that they are resisting, but that doesn't matter because everyone can see that it hurts America with that approach. Their policies didn't work at all and now DT's policies is a grand slam. Plus most despises the MSM and the Dems have welcomed their help with open arms. But both party establishments and the MSM are underestimating the size of the silent majority. American people are tired of their corruption and all the BS they bring.

You blame the left for "identity politics"? Have you been following our current President for the last 6 years? Or the Tea Party?

 

[I35]

You blame the left for "identity politics"? Have you been following our current President for the last 6 years? Or the Tea Party?

Please give me some examples? Tea Party believed in cutting spending. That was what they were all about. I'm guessing you are saying DT due to trying to protect Americans from refugees, illegal immigrants, or maybe the MSM. I wouldn't consider that identity politics outside of the MSM. But the MSM gets everything they deserve since they fake so much news. It's just unbelievable that you think this way when the Dems are well known for identity politics. The war on Women, Racism, Trying to kill old people (remember the commercial pushing granny off a cliff?), rich people, white privileged. Basically every thing I'm not. I'm a middle aged straight white man that is public enemy #1 by the democrats.

 

[Mr. Deez]

You're more optimistic than I am that simply having a "D" next to Doug Jones name wouldn't be enough to vote for Moore.

Well, it worked in Indiana. Richard Mourdock made an idiotic statement about abortion. Against most Democrats, Mourdock could have done damage control by polarizing the abortion issue as Moore is trying to do and may have won the election. However, Donnelly was pro-life, and that pretty much took that option off the table.

(By the way, I'm still bitter about that election - not because Donnelly won but because of what happened in the GOP primary. Dick Lugar might have been the sharpest foreign policy mind on Capitol Hill in 50 years, and the idiotic primary voters dumped him for a brainless nincompoop. Pathetic.)

That would have certainly helped. I've never understood this idea that a party has to have ideological purity.

Ditto - at least on a state-by-state basis. I think political parties should try to be reflective of the voters in their states. If Texas Democrats can't win, why not move in the conservative direction and try to pick off voters? Where's the modern Lloyd Bentsen? Or going the other way and going to your part of the country, where's the modern Slade Gorton?

 

[OUBubba]

Please give me some examples? Tea Party believed in cutting spending. That was what they were all about. I'm guessing you are saying DT due to trying to protect Americans from refugees, illegal immigrants, or maybe the MSM. I wouldn't consider that identity politics outside of the MSM. But the MSM gets everything they deserve since they fake so much news. It's just unbelievable that you think this way when the Dems are well known for identity politics. The war on Women, Racism, Trying to kill old people (remember the commercial pushing granny off a cliff?), rich people, white privileged. Basically every thing I'm not. I'm a middle aged straight white man that is public enemy #1 by the democrats.

The Tea Party believed in the deficit, until DJT was in office. The plan that they voted on under Trump adds more than $2 trillion to the deficit. I'd respect them more if they were consistent. It's the hypocracy that's the issue. Trump's whole social media strategy is designed to divide and conquer via cultural lines - from the neo nazis to the pro life groups. It's pretty disgusting.

 

[OUBubba]

Please give me some examples? Tea Party believed in cutting spending. That was what they were all about. I'm guessing you are saying DT due to trying to protect Americans from refugees, illegal immigrants, or maybe the MSM. I wouldn't consider that identity politics outside of the MSM. But the MSM gets everything they deserve since they fake so much news. It's just unbelievable that you think this way when the Dems are well known for identity politics. The war on Women, Racism, Trying to kill old people (remember the commercial pushing granny off a cliff?), rich people, white privileged. Basically every thing I'm not. I'm a middle aged straight white man that is public enemy #1 by the democrats.

I'm a middle aged white male as well. The MSM is much more factually accurate than our President. MUCH MORE.

 

[I35]

I'm a middle aged white male as well. The MSM is much more factually accurate than our President. MUCH MORE.

I'm starting to think you don't know the definition of "Identity Politics."

The plan that they voted on under Trump adds more than $2 trillion to the deficit.

Not accurate dude. This tells me you have trouble taking your eyes off of CNN. They are going by a CBO report that doesn't consider any of the growth that the tax cut will bring. I'm not even sure I've seen any report that it would be $2 trillion or more anyway.

 

[UTChE96]

You're more optimistic than I am that simply having a "D" next to Doug Jones name wouldn't be enough to vote for Moore.

I think you underestimate how strongly pro-lifers feel about their position. The uncomfortable decision that many are forced to make is whether they will vote for a guy that may have felt up a teenage girl vs a guy that will 100% support the taking of an unborn child's life. That's not an easy decision to make if you are pro-life. I don't think Moore will win by a large margin which means he would have lost some support because of the accusations. Take away the abortion issue and I am pretty confident that Moore loses.

 

[mchammer]

I’ve seen $1.5 trillion that does not account for additional gdp growth. When added gdp growth is included, the deficit is $1 trillion. Still, this does not account for additional capital gains taxes or additional taxes from repatriating foreign cash. In my opinion, this will be a wash due to its growth and tax incentives.

 

[I35]

I’ve seen $1.5 trillion that does not account for additional gdp growth. When added gdp growth is included, the deficit is $1 trillion. Still, this does not account for additional capital gains taxes or additional taxes from repatriating foreign cash. In my opinion, this will be a wash due to its growth and tax incentives.

They said the same thing about Reagan's tax cut.

 

[Seattle Husker]

They said the same thing about Reagan's tax cut.

Reagan's tax cut add massive amounts to our debt from what I remember. That was somewhat the genesis of our mutual transition from saying "look at the debt" to "debt as a % of GDP".

 

[I35]

Reagan's tax cut add massive amounts to our debt from what I remember. That was somewhat the genesis of our mutual transition from saying "look at the debt" to "debt as a % of GDP".

Everyone flourished as extra money from the tax cuts exchanged hands and the economy boomed under Reagan. Once again showing that the American businesses and the American people know how to spend their own money much more than the government does.

 

[Garmel]

Reagan's tax cut didn't add to the debt. Out of control spending added to the debt.

 

[Garmel]

Federal revenue by year. The Reagan tax cuts did not cause revenue to go down. https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762