'10 recruiting for OU

OUEngineer,

Any opinion is essentially an argument. Your argument was that the guys Texas is getting were not priority guys for OU even though they offered. That argument makes no sense for the reasons I briefly stated before your lengthy attempt at rebuttal. Go back and look at what I quoted, it comes straight from your earlier post.

Now, you seem to argue that OU couldn't possibly know as much about these recruits as Texas because it is so close to the last signing date. Huh?

You're a smart guy whose made some good posts on these boards, so I'm not dogging you. I just think you're way off on this thread.
 
I think this thread has gotten a bit off topic.

Seems to me that OU is doing pretty much the same thing they do every year as OUE mentioned. They put out offers early but don't really get those kids in their camps as early as Mack or get that relationship going as early as Mack does. B/c of that many of the kids that were arleady high on Texas go ahead and make the commit to Texas. However some of those kids want more time and want to visit other schools. Mack system doesn't seem to be very tolerant of this and we more often than not end up missing on these kids and take others at their same position before we even give them a chance to look around. Sometimes that has put a bad taste in their mouths and they have chosen OU over Texas in large part b/c of this approach. In 2008 we saw this really go against Texas. In some years OU has some decent talent in state as well (06 with Mccoy Gresham, Patterson, Franks). If you can combine a bit of both you get a great class for OU.

In most other years that Texas has done well in-state though OU has suffered. I would put 07 and 09 in that category. 2010 seems to be going that way as well. Question going forward will be will OU settle for this and allow UT to outrecruit them most years or will they respond by refocusing their recruiting more in Texas or by adjusting their timeline and moving their recruiting up a bit in response to what Mack is doing? OUE I would think you would agree that OU can't just sit pat and do business as usual and wait for those 1 in 3 years where 2-3 top Texas kids jump ship and go to OU or for OK to produce 2-3 top national kids in a give year. They just aren't bringing in the kids nationally as well as they would like. They do not have a national presence if though they like to think they do.

And a bigger question....where do you see 2010 OU recruiting going specifically?
 
I get that OU usually fills its class later than us so maybe they have less urgency, but you've got to believe that this early rush stings a ton. It's not like this is 1999 and early recruiting in Texas is a new thing. And it's not like OU is waiting until the fall before evaluating and handing out ships. I don't buy for a second that they don't know who the "must haves" are and who the "like to haves" are. If they can't figure that out with the early commitment landscape in Texas what it is, then they deserve to get their *** beat in Dallas every year for the next decade.

They are on these kids early, and are clearly offering their top choices first -- you don't offer the second tier first unless you are second tier. Recruiting is a zero sum game. Anytime your rival takes your targets it hurts. We were furious the year that they took RJ Washington, Justin Johnson, and Good. Are you telling me that they've changed their tactics since then? I don't buy it. Maybe they are casting a wider net, but I don't understand why they have to. They have just as much juice in Texas as anybody, with the exception of UT. Now you're telling me that all of the sudden Stoops has decided that he doesn't have the stomach to compete with UT on the recruiting trail so he'll let them fill up and take the leftovers? I bet that pitch goes over well at the alumni meetings.
 
What Mack's preemptive strike the last three weeks has done is force Stoops to have to work harder to get some good players out of Texas.

The paper clips are gonna have to recruit east Texas and the gulf coast a little harder than usual, and perhaps west Texas too. They will wind up with some good Texas players...UT can't take them all, but zero-u will probably be going up against LSU, Tech, Baylor, and even aggy a bit more than usual.

No matter who Stoops and staff were putting the full court press on, make no mistake that Mack has taken more than two players that the land thieves would have loved to have gotten in next year's class. (...and I'm pretty sure Stoops has Texas pretty well scouted out, even if signing day was just a month or so ago.)
 
Fritz, I understand what you're saying, but I think your comments show a lack of understanding of how the recruiting process works, especially this early.
I can't count the number of times I've read where a kid got an offer he didn't expect from a big-time program. This happens quite often with programs that recruit nationally. Just this morning, we heard Tony Hurd, Jr. got an offer from OU he wasn't expecting at the time. We'd seen him in camp and made contact, or as much contact as allowed with kids who hit the scene as SOPHOMORES, but does that mean our staff has put forth valuable time and resources when they've barely inked the '09 class? That's one example, but at this juncture, that happens a lot.

I think UT fans have a skewed perception on early recruiting. It seems an abnormally high percentage of Mack's early offers commit. Very few schools follow this pattern. Hell, I can't think of a single other. This seems like an obvious thing, but many of you think OU is solely competing UT for a lot of these kids, which is false. One could just as easily say UT beat out Oklahoma St. for Taylor Bible. The only 2 kids where it was clearly an OU/UT battle was Wood and Harris. Taking it beyond these 2 is delusion, based on what we know so far.

All of your commits were going to UT, regardless. You don't commit a full-year before signing day unless this is true. That said, OU still needed to make the offers. Not doing so can paint a poor image in the mind's of the high school coaches, if nothing else. Our program needs visibility, even in hopeless causes.

pulque, your grasp of the English language is profound. My usage of "100%" was clearly hyperbolic, but just in case you really need an example:

Water is wet.
rolleyes.gif
 
Hey OUEngineer,

I sorta get what you're saying. I'll explain how I view a lot of this, which is probably different from some/most.

1) I don't really care much about the recruiting lists - what is much more interesting to me is who has offered the recruits we're getting commitments from. I understand your point about how Texas is also beating OSU, etc, for some of these, and that means something, but when I hear that a kid has an offer from OU, that means a ton. Ditto for other programs like LSU, USC, etc. Tier 2 schools like ATM, not so much, but it is still something. When a school beats out Tulsa and New Mexico for a recruit...well, that says a lot.
2) I'm not going to pretend that I understand how all the politics and posturing works with these offers. I would think that if OU made an offer and the kid for whatever reason chose not to go to UT (depth chart, who knows) then OU would need to stand behind their offer. Not standing behind it I would think would lead to a big black eye with that HS coach. So I wouldn't expect OU to casually toss offers around.

So I'm not of the opinion that all of these were heated Texas/OU battles, but more that all of these were "offer worthy" from both, and that says a lot to me. I can't remember when we've had so many verbals that had OU offers. Maybe part of that in the past has been that other schools simply hadn't had time to offer. Maybe this year OU has had time, but the inevitable has happened to this point. I don't know.

Anyway, thanks for the post.
 
So, just to clarify:
1. Oklahoma recruits "nationally" even though historically about 70% of its players come from the states of Oklahoma and Texas. And about another 10 or 15% on top of that are Jucos. Because of this "national" approach, they can afford to half-*** it in Texas where early recruiting is king.
2. The OU staff hasn't had time to evaluate next year's crop of players properly because they just finished up the 09 recruits. They do this knowing what the recruiting landscape is like in Texas, where many of the top dogs commit very, very early. And claiming that the OU staff is getting outworked is "silly."
3. OU offers scholarships to players it hasn't properly evaluated, and they do it as some sort of courtesy to the player and/or to keep the high school coaches happy.

Does this sound plausible to anybody? Am I missing anything?
 
Okay... I should fix it to say:

2. The OU staff has evaluated next year's crop of players and identified who the good ones are, but can't seem to find the time to properly build relationships with them because they just finished up with the 09 recruits. They only have time to carpet bomb offers and hope that one of them sticks. Poor Stoops just can't catch up on this crazy early recruiting treadmill that's only been around for what, ten years? Either that, or he is apparently content to let Texas have the first pick. And of course, claiming that the OU staff is getting outworked is "silly" when they've had every opportunity that UT has to evaluate and contact and build relationships with their targets but haven't done so.
 
If you're okie fan, blame it all on Bobby Jack Wright for not exercising focusness and maintaining his Texas recruiting mojo. If he'd been putting in the kind of effort Bill In Sinton says is necessary, a few of the early verbals might have wound up north of the muddy Red....right...
rolleyes.gif
 
IS there possibly another explination for the Recent UT success? Is there any word out there that OU might/would get some NCAA review? I have nothing to base this on other than what FSU and Bobby recently got handed. I wonder if , the Big Red Idea that Big red is under review impacts the top reank school boys... What do the School boys think about OU? Any documented insights?
hookem.gif
 
vculou - I have no information one way or the other, but I would think this isn't the case. If the recruits know something, it would leak out to the general public. There's no way 25-50 guys like that could keep a secret.
 
But OU has already taken 4 kids this year. And they are all from Texas. Seems to me like they are in the recruiting process but just not as early as UT, and this is costing them as they are losing the battle.
 
I've been wondering if Bob is even going to bother recruiting Texas this year.



Look at the trend for Bob's classes after OU won the national championship almost 10 years ago:


2002 - 7th
2003 - 4th
2004 - 8th
2005 - 3rd
2006 - 9th
2007 - 14th
2008 - 6th
2009 - 13th


The trend is not a good one. First four classes had an average rank of 5.5.

The last four years have an average rank of 10.5.

If OU's class is again ranked 10th or worse, that will make three out of the last four years that OU has had a class in the second 10 instead of the top 10.
 
My 2 cents:

Luck is when hard work meets opportunity. Is Mack doing anything significantly different this year than the last 3-4? If he is I can't see it. Mack has a recruiting machine going and it has evolved such that he can get the majority of his class by April 1. Could we be at 12 instead of 19? Sure, if those he offered wanted to hold off. Mack's hard work and consistency is yielding big dividends this year. The chips won't fall like this every year. Not everyone wants to go to Texas, not everyone wants to go to class and have to study, and not all players can get into Texas. The stars aligned well last year and they are aligning again this year.
And the stars aligned for visor boy 2 years ago.
 
I've been around too long to drink the burnt orange Kool Aid. The Horns are having a terrific recruiting year, and it's no accident. Mack does have a recruiting machine operating at the highest level.

That being said, okie isn't going anywhere and is gonna continue being our main competition, and able to beat us almost any year with the right breaks. I don't like Stoops, but he's too good a coach to dismiss him or his team. The paper clips may not have gotten the amount of high school talent Texas has the last couple of years, but they've got enough talent to be as good as usual.

I do think nobody outworks the UT staff at recruiting, and I agree with engineer's point that Texas should have a massive in-state recruiting advantage. We do, and Mack is optimizing it. That's what's happening and I hope it doesn't change anytime soon. I think Mack has taken the Bobby Bowden approach...recruit the most talent across the board most years, and your team will be a national championship contender most years, and win it occasionally. That's not a bad plan.
 
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