Would any of you supporters
- Thread starter Horn6721
- Start date
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Hmmm...the State of Oregon has spent $43M and counting with Oracle:The Link
This shitstorm was bad enough with vendors that actually had experience building similar but lesser systems than Healthcare.gov. Oracle is a good example of a company who has no expertise in the healthcare sector trying to fashion a solution, just for a corollary to IBM.
By the way...if you watch the video of Sal Palisimo(sp?) he doesn't say anything about the Obamacare website. He said he offered IBM to build a fraud detection system for free for Government run healthcare programs and appears to infer (not clear) that they'd take a cut of the savings.
I don't know if Darrel Issa is telling the truth on this situation but the evidence you provided (nor the Gateway pundit) supports the claim. Then again, integrity has never been a strength of Rep. Issa's.
This shitstorm was bad enough with vendors that actually had experience building similar but lesser systems than Healthcare.gov. Oracle is a good example of a company who has no expertise in the healthcare sector trying to fashion a solution, just for a corollary to IBM.
By the way...if you watch the video of Sal Palisimo(sp?) he doesn't say anything about the Obamacare website. He said he offered IBM to build a fraud detection system for free for Government run healthcare programs and appears to infer (not clear) that they'd take a cut of the savings.
I don't know if Darrel Issa is telling the truth on this situation but the evidence you provided (nor the Gateway pundit) supports the claim. Then again, integrity has never been a strength of Rep. Issa's.
D
dillohorn
Guest
Look at the silver lining. The worse the site works, the fewer people get involved with this piece of crap bill. I pray that the whole program will crash, burn, and be repealed. We already had the finest healthcare system in the world and the dems are killing it. There will be more people without insurance than ever before.
Trusting a private company with a major issue like this is not a "no brainer." There are a lot of good private sector solutions to health care delivery that certainly merit considerations, but often enough public-private partnership are kind of a carnivore-sheep arrangement.
Innovation that subtracts complication in accessing services, delivering service and getting paid for services make a lot of sense. Sometimes government innovates creatively. Sometimes it looks out for the politicos' friends. What I may view as a "bureaucratic inefficiency" is no doubt perceived as "jobs and profit centers" elsewhere.
Innovation that subtracts complication in accessing services, delivering service and getting paid for services make a lot of sense. Sometimes government innovates creatively. Sometimes it looks out for the politicos' friends. What I may view as a "bureaucratic inefficiency" is no doubt perceived as "jobs and profit centers" elsewhere.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Please, for the love of God, provide one single example (at the Federal level).
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
If you limit me to one, I'll say the Rural Electrification Administration, which used loans, (almost all of which have been repaid with interest) to speed delivery of central station electric power to rural America. The results in productivity, quality of life, economic development and cohesiveness of far-flung rural communities were outstanding, Return of revenue (new income taxes coming in, vs. federal dollars spent) is a stupendous win, not counting the positive impact it had on the comfort and quality of life in rural America.
The space program, enviornmental protection, advances of civil rights in the Old South were other examples I considered.
Please, for the love of God, provide one single example (at the Federal level).
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
If you limit me to one, I'll say the Rural Electrification Administration, which used loans, (almost all of which have been repaid with interest) to speed delivery of central station electric power to rural America. The results in productivity, quality of life, economic development and cohesiveness of far-flung rural communities were outstanding, Return of revenue (new income taxes coming in, vs. federal dollars spent) is a stupendous win, not counting the positive impact it had on the comfort and quality of life in rural America.
The space program, enviornmental protection, advances of civil rights in the Old South were other examples I considered.
H
Hu_Fan
Guest
Experts have said the front end can be built for under a million. Out of the box, off the shelf, no-brainer stuff.
Also, that security HAS TO BE BUILT IN from the first. Paramount. Absolutely the core of the foundation of the product.
The full system with backend, maybe 5-10 million.
I worked for Quality Assurance in Silicon Valley for 10 years. First a Dell-sized company, then a start up by the author of QA books and processes. It's in my DNA so to speak.
This effort by the government is appalling and would make any tech-savy person sick at his stomach. But you have to go beyond tech and realize it was handled in a political manner since 2009 and 2010, all designed to get past the 2012 election before anything would be revealed and therefore a bottleneck on Obama's re-election and in attempts to take control of Congress.
Further, by summer 2010 the policies began to be altered, again in a manner as to disguise ahd offset public eyes on what was to come.
If you throw politics completely out the window, the development may have had a chance. Even then, the cronyism in how this was handled... an organization with a corporate head who was a friend of Michelle's at college... so much of the usual government crony methodology, also doomed it. You get incompetence that is not fueled by non-government issues in the sense it just has to work, no muss, no fuss.
Govenments don't have to do anything well. It is only concered with power. Getting it and keeping it. If it works doesn't matter. You just ******** your way through it. But in this case we're talking 1/6th of the US economy and the heartbeat of all life: medical care.
Why would voters turn over this much responsibility to the government? To any government? To this particular elected president and his administration?
Read Peggy Noonan's blog about Low-Information Leadership.
Low-Information Leadership, ... Peggy Noonan Journal/Blog, WSJ, Dec.3
Also, that security HAS TO BE BUILT IN from the first. Paramount. Absolutely the core of the foundation of the product.
The full system with backend, maybe 5-10 million.
I worked for Quality Assurance in Silicon Valley for 10 years. First a Dell-sized company, then a start up by the author of QA books and processes. It's in my DNA so to speak.
This effort by the government is appalling and would make any tech-savy person sick at his stomach. But you have to go beyond tech and realize it was handled in a political manner since 2009 and 2010, all designed to get past the 2012 election before anything would be revealed and therefore a bottleneck on Obama's re-election and in attempts to take control of Congress.
Further, by summer 2010 the policies began to be altered, again in a manner as to disguise ahd offset public eyes on what was to come.
If you throw politics completely out the window, the development may have had a chance. Even then, the cronyism in how this was handled... an organization with a corporate head who was a friend of Michelle's at college... so much of the usual government crony methodology, also doomed it. You get incompetence that is not fueled by non-government issues in the sense it just has to work, no muss, no fuss.
Govenments don't have to do anything well. It is only concered with power. Getting it and keeping it. If it works doesn't matter. You just ******** your way through it. But in this case we're talking 1/6th of the US economy and the heartbeat of all life: medical care.
Why would voters turn over this much responsibility to the government? To any government? To this particular elected president and his administration?
Read Peggy Noonan's blog about Low-Information Leadership.
Low-Information Leadership, ... Peggy Noonan Journal/Blog, WSJ, Dec.3
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Before I get accused of not answering Horn6721's question the answer is yes, fraud prevention is important. That's a simple question though. Priorities and bandwidth have to be considered for any organization. That's not unique to government entities.
H
Hu_Fan
Guest
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Husker
of course the issues and security requirements are not unique to this obamacare program
But when BO etc had 3.5 years and have spent a billion and still spending it defies credulity to watch the trainwreck
and only after the train wrecked did they bring in private sector people who are successful.
Knowing who BO admin chose and their known failures it is hard to discount the cronyism
cronyism that has cost us hundreds of millions so far
of course the issues and security requirements are not unique to this obamacare program
But when BO etc had 3.5 years and have spent a billion and still spending it defies credulity to watch the trainwreck
and only after the train wrecked did they bring in private sector people who are successful.
Knowing who BO admin chose and their known failures it is hard to discount the cronyism
cronyism that has cost us hundreds of millions so far
I'll certainly cede that intelligent policy coming out of Congress is problematic since with have had a collapse of the center. We're governed by hyperpartisan ideologues more interested in looking great on either Fox News or MSNBC than coming up with solutions. Everybody keeps electing "fighters" and have turned Congress into the WWF instead of a source for innovative policy decisions.
For example on health care reform, the Republicans honestly were not frozen out of the process until it became clear that their only interest in "reform" was either to stop it or set it up to fail. Bipartisan scrutiny during the drafting process could have thwarted some of the excesses and complications of the ACA, which I'll concede is neither good nor innovative. My Congressman, Michael Burgess, is a retired physician who honestly could have added common sense to this flawed program. I can't remember exacty what he said in a constituent meeting I attended, but it was something to the effect, "When your adversary is suicidal it's best not to come between them and their weapons."
For example on health care reform, the Republicans honestly were not frozen out of the process until it became clear that their only interest in "reform" was either to stop it or set it up to fail. Bipartisan scrutiny during the drafting process could have thwarted some of the excesses and complications of the ACA, which I'll concede is neither good nor innovative. My Congressman, Michael Burgess, is a retired physician who honestly could have added common sense to this flawed program. I can't remember exacty what he said in a constituent meeting I attended, but it was something to the effect, "When your adversary is suicidal it's best not to come between them and their weapons."
I know since the ACA has been passed, it's common for every problem with outrageous cost center in medicine to be blamed on "Obamacare." However the system was flawed with a number of built in extravagances that consume an untenable percentage of the nation's wealth. There were a lot of common sense things that can be done. Government can and should play a positive role in making health care available to people at a price commensurate with their ability to pay.
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
It was a no bid contract without explanation as to why.
Federal officials considered only one firm to design the Obamacare health insurance exchange website that has performed abysmally since its Oct. 1 debut.
Rather than open the contracting process to a competitive public solicitation with multiple bidders, officials in the Department of Health and Human Services’ Centers for Medicare and Medicaid accepted a sole bidder, CGI Federal, the U.S. subsidiary of a Canadian company with an uneven record of IT pricing and contract performance.
CMS officials are tight-lipped about why CGI was chosen or how it happened. They also refuse to say if other firms competed with CGI, or if there was ever a public solicitation for building Healthcare.gov, the backbone of Obamacare’s problem-plagued web portal.
Instead, it appears they used what amounts to a federal procurement system loophole to award the work to the Canadian firm. I do not know if Obama picked it or not, but since it was a failure I bet he knew nothing about it. Or at least that will be the official WH position.
Federal officials considered only one firm to design the Obamacare health insurance exchange website that has performed abysmally since its Oct. 1 debut.
Rather than open the contracting process to a competitive public solicitation with multiple bidders, officials in the Department of Health and Human Services’ Centers for Medicare and Medicaid accepted a sole bidder, CGI Federal, the U.S. subsidiary of a Canadian company with an uneven record of IT pricing and contract performance.
CMS officials are tight-lipped about why CGI was chosen or how it happened. They also refuse to say if other firms competed with CGI, or if there was ever a public solicitation for building Healthcare.gov, the backbone of Obamacare’s problem-plagued web portal.
Instead, it appears they used what amounts to a federal procurement system loophole to award the work to the Canadian firm. I do not know if Obama picked it or not, but since it was a failure I bet he knew nothing about it. Or at least that will be the official WH position.
Pharm
You make a good point.
I do know about how gov't contracts are awarded on a smaller scale. I know it is a competitive bid process and I know for certain past performances of a company are considered. I know companies who have not even been considered when there were problems/ issues with other contracts a company may have had.
I do not know how the obamacare contracts were awarded.
I do know it was NOT a competitive bid process. That CGI did not have to bid.
And that CGI has been awarded millions in other bids even knowing they botched the website
OR am I wrong?
You posted this
" There is actually a process for who gets government contracts like this.....you may want to familiarize yourself with that. The process is a big problem, and that is what we should be discussing and it can be improved"
UH DUH Yes there is a process unless you are BO
can you Pharm think of anyway it could have been improved? like say having an actual BID process and by actually looking into the performances?
You make a good point.
I do know about how gov't contracts are awarded on a smaller scale. I know it is a competitive bid process and I know for certain past performances of a company are considered. I know companies who have not even been considered when there were problems/ issues with other contracts a company may have had.
I do not know how the obamacare contracts were awarded.
I do know it was NOT a competitive bid process. That CGI did not have to bid.
And that CGI has been awarded millions in other bids even knowing they botched the website
OR am I wrong?
You posted this
" There is actually a process for who gets government contracts like this.....you may want to familiarize yourself with that. The process is a big problem, and that is what we should be discussing and it can be improved"
UH DUH Yes there is a process unless you are BO
can you Pharm think of anyway it could have been improved? like say having an actual BID process and by actually looking into the performances?
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-04/obamacare-expedited-bidding-limited-who-could-build-site.html
Please read, should answer some questions.
Please read, should answer some questions.
Uninformed
5,000+ Posts
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
Uninformed
5,000+ Posts
Well, it begs the question, "How big of a policy wonk is Obama? "
Weekly Prediction Contest
* Predict HORNS-AGGIES *
Sat, Nov 30 • 6:30 PM on ABC
Recent Threads
-
The Media Industry
- Started by texas_ex2000
- Replies: 8K
- West Mall
-
Black Lives Matter; The Cerebral Warlords of Our Time
- Started by iatrogenic
- Replies: 1K
- West Mall
-
New Jaguar TV Commercial!?
- Started by WorsterMan
- Replies: 3
- West Mall
Prediction Results Threads
