Will attendance to WBB ever return to the glory years?

[racerx5908]

I did a post about this a while back ago. I've been revisiting this in my mind because I'm considering writing a long email to our new AD. I've read he likes to hear from his "constituents" and after a few emails exchanged with Ms. Plonsky, I'm like "why not"? One of the topics I'd like to bring up with Mr. Del Conte and, by copy, Ms. Plonsky is if we'll ever generate the home crowds at women's basketball like in the "old Jody days". The information I gathered her was the official won-loss record in the UT archives:
http://www.texassports.com/sports/2013/11/24/WBB_1124133637.aspx?path=wbball
And the official NCAA women's basketball attendance as submitted by the schools:
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/womens-basketball-attendance

The one odd side effect of this data gathering was realizing that Texas Tech fans really enjoy their (even bad) women's basketball team as they constantly in the top 25 of attendance.

One thing I'm going to bring up with Del Conte, which I've touched here on this board, is the effect of the Longhorn Network on fan attendance. First, here is the data:

I took the last 5 of Jody, the entire 5 of Gail, and the current 5 of Karen as a fair comparison. As you can see, Karen has righted the ship, but the attendance is still below the golden years. And with the announcement that UT has sold out the bottom arena of the Erwin center for the UCONN game, I find this data a bit sad. I remember the days when we had to sit "up" because of the overflow of some of Jody's games.

One of my totally unproveable conjectures is that LHN has something to do with this. LHN launched in 2011. But because of a pissing contest between ESPN/LHN and Time Warner Cable, we weren't able to watch LHN in Austin until 2013. I think this has had an affect on all sports. If it's raining or cold and you know the game is going to get covered by ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, or LHN wouldn't you stay at home and "eat" your tickets rather than drive down and try to find parking to go to the game? Like I said, I can't really prove anything other than what our family does. If I have another commitment and I can't go to the women's games, I encourage my wife to take the kids and go. She means well and says she will, but at the last minute bails and just watches the game at home on LHN in her PJs.

Hmmm, don't know. Opinions?

 

[jusme828]

I've blamed LHN for low attendance for a long time now. And, it's true. I admit to being one of the season ticket holders who decide to stay home and watch LHN for home games. Were it not for LHN, I would've made it to the games that I skipped going to for convenience.

 

[flash34]

Maybe. Different times now than glory years. Perhaps if the team continues upward, a new arena favors the fan experience and TLC is merged into a different TV package, and other as yet identified factors then it might.

 

[kurupt]

I brought up the LHN fact in the other thread about attendance. As I said, the LHN is great but it effects attendance because almost every game is on t.v. unlike in the 80’s and it’s not just LHN. Over the last couple of years FS1 has done a good job of showing Wbb when it’s not on LHN. Also the city/area of Austin has grown so much that a lot of people would rather go to the many different entertainment industries other than sitting in traffic and going to a wbb game.

Austin isn’t your typical in the middle of nowhere University like most colleges. That’s why programs like South Carolina, Mississippi St, UConn,Tennessee, Baylor, and Louisville all have had great attendance while winning. They’re located in mostly rural areas where there’s not much to do.

 

[DFW_Horn]

I brought up the LHN fact in the other thread about attendance. As I said, the LHN is great but it effects attendance because almost every game is on t.v. unlike in the 80’s and it’s not just LHN. Over the last couple of years FS1 has done a good job of showing Wbb when it’s not on LHN. Also the city/area of Austin has grown so much that a lot of people would rather go to the many different entertainment industries other than sitting in traffic and going to a wbb game.

Austin isn’t your typical in the middle of nowhere University like most colleges. That’s why programs like South Carolina, Mississippi St, UConn,Tennessee, Baylor, and Louisville all have had great attendance while winning. They’re located in mostly rural areas where there’s not much to do.

I can almost understand not wanting to deal with the hassle for regular fans but I want to know what the problem is with the student body. They don’t have to travel that far. Of the games I’ve attended and watched on TV over the past few seasons, I would be shocked if students made up as much as 20% of the crowd.

 

[racerx5908]

I brought up the LHN fact in the other thread about attendance. As I said, the LHN is great but it effects attendance because almost every game is on t.v. unlike in the 80’s and it’s not just LHN. Over the last couple of years FS1 has done a good job of showing Wbb when it’s not on LHN.

The question is if getting rid of LHN, which might have an effect of boosting Austin attendance, would then penalize Longhorn fans who can't drive to each event? I know that when I retire, unfortunately it won't be in Austin. So then (in about 7-8 years), I would want my LHN and then tell those in Austin, sorry if the Erwin Center is so empty, but I'm able to watch my Horns from far away.

 

[kurupt]

I can almost understand not wanting to deal with the hassle for regular fans but I want to know what the problem is with the student body. They don’t have to travel that far. Of the games I’ve attended and watched on TV over the past few seasons, I would be shocked if students made up as much as 20% of the crowd.

I think you see that at most women’s basketball programs across the country. Even the programs like UCONN and South Carolina that get great fan support. The overwhelming majority of the fans aren’t students. I think it comes down to the same thing. Just look at middle of nowhere places like Lincoln Nebraska or Storrs Connecticut.

Rural areas where for the most part the Successful University men and women sports programs are literally the only quality entertainment in town. I do think having a smaller arena closer to campus will bring more students to the games like the volleyball team at Gregory.

 

[chuckhorn]

I think you see that at most women’s basketball programs across the country. Even the programs like UCONN and South Carolina that get great fan support. The overwhelming majority of the fans aren’t students. I think it comes down to the same thing. Just look at middle of nowhere places like Lincoln Nebraska or Storrs Connecticut.

Rural areas where for the most part the Successful University men and women sports programs are literally the only quality entertainment in town. I do think having a smaller arena closer to campus will bring more students to the games like the volleyball team at Gregory.

I did a post about this a while back ago. I've been revisiting this in my mind because I'm considering writing a long email to our new AD. I've read he likes to hear from his "constituents" and after a few emails exchanged with Ms. Plonsky, I'm like "why not"? One of the topics I'd like to bring up with Mr. Del Conte and, by copy, Ms. Plonsky is if we'll ever generate the home crowds at women's basketball like in the "old Jody days". The information I gathered her was the official won-loss record in the UT archives:
http://www.texassports.com/sports/2013/11/24/WBB_1124133637.aspx?path=wbball
And the official NCAA women's basketball attendance as submitted by the schools:
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/womens-basketball-attendance

The one odd side effect of this data gathering was realizing that Texas Tech fans really enjoy their (even bad) women's basketball team as they constantly in the top 25 of attendance.

One thing I'm going to bring up with Del Conte, which I've touched here on this board, is the effect of the Longhorn Network on fan attendance. First, here is the data:

I took the last 5 of Jody, the entire 5 of Gail, and the current 5 of Karen as a fair comparison. As you can see, Karen has righted the ship, but the attendance is still below the golden years. And with the announcement that UT has sold out the bottom arena of the Erwin center for the UCONN game, I find this data a bit sad. I remember the days when we had to sit "up" because of the overflow of some of Jody's games.

One of my totally unproveable conjectures is that LHN has something to do with this. LHN launched in 2011. But because of a pissing contest between ESPN/LHN and Time Warner Cable, we weren't able to watch LHN in Austin until 2013. I think this has had an affect on all sports. If it's raining or cold and you know the game is going to get covered by ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, or LHN wouldn't you stay at home and "eat" your tickets rather than drive down and try to find parking to go to the game? Like I said, I can't really prove anything other than what our family does. If I have another commitment and I can't go to the women's games, I encourage my wife to take the kids and go. She means well and says she will, but at the last minute bails and just watches the game at home on LHN in her PJs.

Hmmm, don't know. Opinions?

Coach Conradt didn't start out with high attendance. I remember in the early days, the early 80's they had to give tickets away for free to boost attendance. Conradt grew the attendance by winning games, by winning championships, by playing an entertaining style of basketball. True Lady Longhorn fans realize how far this program us come back up, but to an average fan we haven't won much. We haven't won a Big 12 regular season or Big 12 tournament or a regional championship. The best we have come up with is one, count em, one win over Baylor. As far as entertaining watching the starting 5, and watching them play a quarter maybe a quarter and a half it is a thing of beauty, but then all 5 get subed, and it turns into something that wouldn't bring in the average basketball fan. To bring back the days of our high attendance and be a UConn, South Carolina we need to start winning championships we need to play hard and entertaining for an entire 40 minutes, we need to start winning the BIG games. We can start with a win against UConn in front of a BIG crowd.

 

[brnkj]

Coach Conradt didn't start out with high attendance. I remember in the early days, the early 80's they had to give tickets away for free to boost attendance. Conradt grew the attendance by winning games, by winning championships, by playing an entertaining style of basketball. True Lady Longhorn fans realize how far this program us come back up, but to an average fan we haven't won much. We haven't won a Big 12 regular season or Big 12 tournament or a regional championship. The best we have come up with is one, count em, one win over Baylor. As far as entertaining watching the starting 5, and watching them play a quarter maybe a quarter and a half it is a thing of beauty, but then all 5 get subed, and it turns into something that wouldn't bring in the average basketball fan. To bring back the days of our high attendance and be a UConn, South Carolina we need to start winning championships we need to play hard and entertaining for an entire 40 minutes, we need to start winning the BIG games. We can start with a win against UConn in front of a BIG crowd.

Good points made! I'd like to add that Conradt also had a very engaging and interactive personality, and I think that's very important when trying to build up a base of supporters. I love what Aston has done with this program and I think it will only get better and better, but she's just not as outwardly engaging as Jody. No knock against her, KA just has a different personality. Also... might want to think of blackouts in the immediate Austin area for LHN home games.

 

[racerx5908]

One of the things to think about is the aging of the fan base. When my wife and I first got season tickets over 15 years ago, we were considered one of the new comers (being in our early 40's). Now, I see neighbors slowly disappearing over time as they don't renew due to death or infirmity (they're now using walkers and it's too hard to move in and out of the seats for them).

 

[Moooooo]

LHN is starving for LIVE content. No need to decrease content locally or otherwise just because attendance isn't where we want it to be. Volleyball not having any issues in that area.

It will take time to consistently sell out the lower bowl and average around 7,500 fans. Winning a conference championship and advancing to the Final Four will no doubt help. Playing a home game against UConn will help bring in some first-time fans, and hopefully they'll come back again in the future.

 

[flash34]

Yes.....there was only one Jody and that is why she is a hall-of-famer. I do find Aston very refreshing. She is funny and engaging and well spoken. To me she has a really nice personality. I see nothing but positives .....especially compared to other coaches.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

I think it is a combination of a lack of winning and LHN. Toward the end of Conradts career I recall fans getting restless because quality was definitely not what we expected so attendance started slipping. Then the GG experiment failed and now Aston has the team headed in the right direction. As you can see the attendance is on the rise.

Combine poor performance with LHN and why would anyone want to pay to see that hot mess when you can watch it from the couch and turn the channel if it's bad. Now that we are good again I think it will take a championship run to get people to fight the mess that is Austin to go to a game.

I think it's a momentum thing and people will come back if we make a run. It's been so long since we were relevant I think we've lost the older loyal fans and we all know how hard it can be to get younger fans interested again. It's almost like they are starting all over again at building a fan base.

 

[Moooooo]

I definitely agree that lack of attendance is not attributed to just one issue.

But, look at our volleyball program's attendance. They are at capacity (4,000 or so) for the big matches, and near capacity for other matches. All home matches are broadcast LIVE on LHN (or other carriers such as ESPN or FS1), and that seems to have zero affect on attendance.

I would say parking (distance from each arena/gym) is the same for both venues; so, not sure we can use parking as an excuse. And, gametime matches in volleyball are similar to hoops.

I still have the opinion that we need more "quality" non-conference games at home in order to increase fan attendance. Look at UConn's non-conference schedule for 2018-19:

Home games: DePaul, Ohio State, South Carolina, Seton Hall, Vanderbilt

Road games: California, Notre Dame, Baylor, Louisville, Oklahoma, St. Louis

Just my opinion, but we need a better balance between Power 5 conference opponents and non-Power 5 opponents. They don't have to be Top 25 opponents; but, they have to have some name recognition to draw in the fans.

 

[cactus47]

A primary reason for UConn's non-conference schedule is their conference schedule. AAC can't hold a candle to Big 12.

 

[WCBBNUT]

A primary reason for UConn's non-conference schedule is their conference schedule. AAC can't hold a candle to Big 12.

It always drives me crazy to watch them arrive at the Tournament so fresh and rested having beaten Tulsa or Temple while we come out of the B12 beaten to a pulp by OU, Baylor, OSU, WV etc searching for renewed strength to get through another 6 games.

 

[Moooooo]

A primary reason for UConn's non-conference schedule is their conference schedule. AAC can't hold a candle to Big 12.

It's true that they have to schedule a lot of tough non-conference games in order to build their SOS/RPI as the AAC is not that strong; but, those home non-conference games help with attendance, as well.

For us, as our roster talent has continued to increase, so does the quality of our home non-conference schedule need to increase; that can only help with fan attendance. As has already been proven, fans are not gonna turn out for home games against UTSA and Northwestern State.

We need to find the right balance as in 2016-17 we overscheduled at the top end. Honestly, I'd much rather bring in a few teams like New Mexico, Colorado, Colorado State, Arizona, Vanderbilt, Florida, as "filler" teams instead of what we had this past Fall (with the exception of Florida State). And, yes, I know there are challenges to scheduling those teams as most would want a return game.

But, games against UTSA and Northwestern State hurt us in SOS/RPI and attendance; so, it's a double whammy, IMO.

 

[Moooooo]

It always drives me crazy to watch them arrive at the Tournament so fresh and rested having beaten Tulsa or Temple while we come out of the B12 beaten to a pulp by OU, Baylor, OSU, WV etc searching for renewed strength to get through another 6 games.

That's what fans of other schools in other conferences say about the Texas volleyball team and play in the Big 12.

 

[Nuyoika]

It always drives me crazy to watch them arrive at the Tournament so fresh and rested having beaten Tulsa or Temple while we come out of the B12 beaten to a pulp by OU, Baylor, OSU, WV etc searching for renewed strength to get through another 6 games.

I think you are being rather disingenuous there. The break between conference tournaments and the NCAA tourney is generally atleast 10 days for a P5 Champion... again, I say P5 Champion. So if you didn't make it to the championship conference game you may actually have had closer to two weeks to recuperate & for 17 to 22 year olds that is more than enough time.

Secondarily, have you ever watched UConn play? Do they look like the type of kids to play with less effort and energy based on the opponent? I watch A LOT of WCBB and they are one of very few teams I actually see that don't do that. That is why they are so consistent. They don't take games off no matter who it is. UConn was scheduling tough OOC games before it was popular to secure your seeding and before they moved to the AAC so people can stop making excuses why the schedules aren't comparative. I like to think coaches create a schedule they think best challenges their team and that's it. The top teams even in the P5 conferences (with the exception of the PAC12 which has become the most competitive conference in the nation) aren't really receiving much in the way of real competition. Think about it Baylor has lost what maybe 5 games in conference in 4 years? Same for the SEC & South Carolina maybe 5 games in conference. ND has been basically steam rolling the ACC since they got there. They probably have maybe 5 as well. The B10 is basically just Maryland and Ohio State beating each other.

The make up of the sport is basically the same everywhere in the country no matter the conference so people really need to give it up with the pumping of the chest on the conference stuff. Even if fans don't want to admit it every conference has basically 2 teams with any real shot at anything and there is generally a health gap even between the number 1 and the number 2 team in that conference, the conference stats year in and year out prove it.

You want more butts in the seats put a great product on the floor, use social media, the players, & the school to market it and people will show up. People didn't start going to South Carolina games cause there is nothing else to do in Columbia. You don't go from 2k fans a game to 10k+ cause people don't have anything to do. Dawn built something entertaining and marketed it. People showed up to see it.

What's really crazy is the amount of time people will spend coming up with a reason why it can't or hasn't been done instead of thinking about how it could be done. Have a little faith geez. Aston has already turned the ship around in a very short period of time. Just go to the games!

 

[WCBBNUT]

I think you are being rather disingenuous there. The break between conference tournaments and the NCAA tourney is generally atleast 10 days for a P5 Champion... again, I say P5 Champion. So if you didn't make it to the championship conference game you may actually have had closer to two weeks to recuperate & for 17 to 22 year olds that is more than enough time.

Secondarily, have you ever watched UConn play? Do they look like the type of kids to play with less effort and energy based on the opponent? I watch A LOT of WCBB and they are one of very few teams I actually see that don't do that. That is why they are so consistent. They don't take games off no matter who it is. UConn was scheduling tough OOC games before it was popular to secure your seeding and before they moved to the AAC so people can stop making excuses why the schedules aren't comparative. I like to think coaches create a schedule they think best challenges their team and that's it. The top teams even in the P5 conferences (with the exception of the PAC12 which has become the most competitive conference in the nation) aren't really receiving much in the way of real competition. Think about it Baylor has lost what maybe 5 games in conference in 4 years? Same for the SEC & South Carolina maybe 5 games in conference. ND has been basically steam rolling the ACC since they got there. They probably have maybe 5 as well. The B10 is basically just Maryland and Ohio State beating each other.

The make up of the sport is basically the same everywhere in the country no matter the conference so people really need to give it up with the pumping of the chest on the conference stuff. Even if fans don't want to admit it every conference has basically 2 teams with any real shot at anything and there is generally a health gap even between the number 1 and the number 2 team in that conference, the conference stats year in and year out prove it.

You want more butts in the seats put a great product on the floor, use social media, the players, & the school to market it and people will show up. People didn't start going to South Carolina games cause there is nothing else to do in Columbia. You don't go from 2k fans a game to 10k+ cause people don't have anything to do. Dawn built something entertaining and marketed it. People showed up to see it.

What's really crazy is the amount of time people will spend coming up with a reason why it can't or hasn't been done instead of thinking about how it could be done. Have a little faith geez. Aston has already turned the ship around in a very short period of time. Just go to the games!

Blah blah blah There’s a board for that and it isn’t this one.

 

[cactus47]

Blah blah blah There’s a board for that and it isn’t this one.

I disagree - always appreciate insights from outsiders

 

[Statalyzer]

Secondarily, have you ever watched UConn play? Do they look like the type of kids to play with less effort and energy based on the opponent? I watch A LOT of WCBB and they are one of very few teams I actually see that don't do that. That is why they are so consistent. They don't take games off no matter who it is.

Sure but it still takes less of a toll.

 

[Nuyoika]

Sure but it still takes less of a toll.

I figure if Brooke McCarty is running full speed in transition vs Baylor and she is running full speed vs Texas Tech she is going to be tired either way . Now I will agree there are some conferences that take physical play to a whole different level (SEC) where you know know you are going to get beat up because that is expected but the recent changes in the rules over the last 3 years should help pull teams away from Rugby and bring them back to WCBB. Then again, isn't that why you have reserves?

Every conference has a team or two with a roster that likes brut ball and everyone coach knows physical play is the last thing UConn wants. They want to play beautiful basketball but let's not act like they don't get their fair share of body shots & black eyes. I just thought it funny the previous poster referencing how well rested they believed UConn to be like Texas doesn't get the same 10-14 day period of time before the NCAAs and given their seeding & talent level the last 4 years the first 2 games of the NCAAs are generally guaranteed wins. The way I see it if you make it to the 3rd game of the NCAAs everyone is pretty much at the same level by then no matter what conference you came from. Texas has a S&C coach just like every other P5 or elite WCBB team. I think he will have them ready to compete for some rings when the time comes. I just can't fathom a team full of kids looking to be champions saying we couldn't compete because we were too tired. That is just not what I envision when I think Texas Longhorns.

 

[WCBBNUT]

There are games and then there are challenging games. It’s not rocket science. Some teams play you rough and tumble and some teams aren’t good enough to even wind you. UConn gets a cakewalk during conference play. We get a grind.

 

[WCBBNUT]

ESPN gets it. Here’s their headline:

“UConn earns easy win over East Carolina”

zzZZZZZ

 

[Statalyzer]

I figure if Brooke McCarty is running full speed in transition vs Baylor and she is running full speed vs Texas Tech she is going to be tired either way

That's only a small part of it, but that much is true.

I just can't fathom a team full of kids looking to be champions saying we couldn't compete because we were too tired.

Me neither.