Why the 'fiscal cliff' is irrelevant

Bevo Incognito

5,000+ Posts
I've spent the last few years on this BBS warning y'all. From Lew Rockwell.com:





November 15, 2012,
Santiago, Chile
Simon Black


In his farewell address to Congress yesterday, Ron Paul blasted the dangers of what he called ˜Economic Ignorance":

Economic ignorance is commonplace. Believers in military Keynesianism and domestic Keynesianism continue to desperately promote their failed policies, as the economy languishes in a deep slumber.

He's dead right. Around the world, economic ignorance abounds. And perhaps nowhere is this more obvious today than in the senseless prattling over the US ˜Fiscal Cliff".

Here's the deal: You may remember the Debt Ceiling debacle of 2011. At the time, the US government was about to breach its debt ceiling, and there was an embarrassing standoff between Congress and President Obama.

As part of their eventual compromise, the debt ceiling increased by $400 billion in August 2011¦ then again by another $500 billion five weeks later and finally by another $1.2 TRILLION twenty weeks after that.

In return, President Obama signed into law the Budget Control Act of 2011. The law stipulates that, unless another compromise is reached, a series of tax increases and budget cuts will automatically take place on January 1, 2013, including the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the temporary 2% payroll tax holiday, plus new taxes related to Obamacare.

They call this the ˜Fiscal Cliff" because everyone is terrified that all the budget cuts and new taxes will bring the US economy to its knees once again.

I've spent days analyzing the bill and frankly, it's a joke. You can read the 200+ pages yourself if you like, but here are the important points:

As we've discussed before, US government spending falls into three categories.

Discretionary spending is what we normally think of as ˜government." It funds everything from the military to Homeland Security to the national parks.

Mandatory spending covers all the major entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare.

Then there's interest on the debt, which is so large they had to make it a special category.

The latter two categories are spent automatically, just like your mortgage payment that gets sucked out of the bank account before you have a chance to spend it. The only thing Congress has a say over is Discretionary Spending. Hence the name.

But here's the problem: the US fiscal situation is so untenable that the government fails to collect enough tax revenue to cover mandatory spending and debt interest. In Fiscal Year 2011, for example, the US government spent $176 billion MORE on debt interest and mandatory spending than they generated in tax revenue.

In Fiscal Year 2012, which just ended 6 weeks ago, that shortfall increased to $251 billion. This means that they could cut the ENTIRE discretionary budget and still be in the hole by $251 billion.

This is why the Fiscal Cliff is irrelevant. The automatic cuts that are going to take place don't even begin to address the actual problem; they're cutting $110 billion from the discretionary budget, yet only $16.9 billion from the mandatory budget.

Given that the entire problem is with mandatory spending, slashing the discretionary budget is pointless. It's as if the US economy is a speeding train heading towards a ravine at 200 mph, and the conductors are arguing about whether they should slow down to 150 or 175.

Oh, and there's just one more problem.

The government thinks that they will collect a few hundred billion dollars more in tax revenue when all of these new taxes kick in. Again, wishful thinking.

In the six+ decades since the end of World War II, tax rates in the US have been all over the board. Yet during this time, the US government has only managed to collect roughly 17.7% of GDP in tax revenue.

Conclusion? Increasing taxes won't increase their total tax revenue. Politicians have tried this for decades. It doesn't work. The only way to increase tax revenue is for the economy to grow, and higher tax rates do not pave this path to prosperity.

Ron Paul was spot on. Economic ignorance abounds. And all the Talking Heads in the mainstream media blathering away about the Fiscal Cliff are only reinforcing his premise.

Bottom line: the Fiscal Cliff doesn't matter. The US passed the point of no return a long time ago.
 
The problem is that people still view Keynesianism as gospel, when it has been so thoroughly discredited.
 
I have a friend who is an economist who has an interesting theory. he believes that Keynes and the Austrian schools of thought were still battling it out while the 3rd Reich rose. Once the truth got out about the Nazis, everything that could be associated with them was spurned. He believes that Keynes sort of won the discussion by default rather than a true engagement of ideas. I find that to be an intriguing theory.
 
Well geez, BI - that was depressing as well as too true, sadly. They will probably kick the bucket down the road rather than face the truth. Sigh..
 
I agree with the thought process but disagree with the conclusion that doing the right thing is irrelevant. On the other hand, I don't think that the fiscal cliff will help things in the long run. Obviously, if the cuts kick in with tax increases, the economy will slow. Then, the next election will again be on the economy. Liberals will say that austerity measures didn't work and that we need to spend our way out of the recession. I think that would win the election and put Dems in a super majority to further destroy the economy. Real cuts to entitlements are necessary and I don't see how they can be implemented in today's political climate.
 
I think you should restructure entitlements and make them very limited on who qualifies for them. This may take care of the "cuts" to entitlements. I have said this before in another thread that I created about taxes; you need to have a stand alone tax just to cover the debt and it's interest. I propose a national sales tax of 2% dedicated strictly to paying down the debt and it's interest payments.

You could structure it to pay 80% interest and 20% principle for the first 10 years and then reevaluate. It could then go to 60/40 for another 10, then reevaluate. Bottom line, make a provision in the tax law that you cannot, absolutely and without question borrow money from this tax; it is strictly for debt reduction. Once the debt is in a controllable state, then look at using this money for discretionary funds or abolish it altogether.

If the sales tax covers the interest payments, then that frees up monies for the entitlements and discretionary spending. We also have to get rid of credits and loopholes for everyone. This will help alleviate the need to cut spending in discretionary and entitlements to a certain degree.

Just my 2 cents.
 
It may be irrelevant as far as stopping the soaring national debt goes, but it could be very relevant to the "average U.S. family", increasing their tax burden by thousands of dollars a year.

I personally have given up on the U.S. reducing or paying off the national debt. It ain't gonna happen. If Obama continues to add a trillion plus per year to the debt, it will be way out of reach. So, all I care about is me, me, and me and I want to pay as few taxes as possible.
 
After 40 years in the working class I have become an advocate of a straight Flat Tax. Eliminate ALL the deductions - make it simple and clean, make this much, pay x %. Only to apease the libs and Obama's fairness whine they could do some percent tiering for those evil 'rich' folks.
Of course, since I am about to retire I would also say leave my 'interest and dividends' alone!
And oh yeah, there is no such thing as a 'dedicated tax' with Congress.
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The main problem is no jobs. The unemployed don't pay taxes at the rate they would pay if they had a decent job. They simply suck at the government tit.

Allow the private sector to create jobs and the revenue will begin to take care of itself. The spending and entitlements are a different matter and won't be addressed under the current administration, this is what will eventually bury all of us.
 
...because the US is already over the "fiscal cliff". The MSM is late to the party as usual. They hear a catchy phrase and repeat it ad nauseum. And the current administration posturing and talking about as if somehow trying to prevent us from going over it and defending it like some goal line is even more laughable. Its's shows how out of touch most are in this country.
 
For most middle class families, the mortgage deduction maybe gives you $600 back a year, because most families don't have that much to itemize. however, it does significantly help expensive homes and their owners, due to the sheer size of the interest payments vs standard deductions.
 
It's a shame that there will be no real "change" to occur in this whole negotiation deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff".

Anyone should be able to see that we can't keep spending the amounts of money we do on Medicare, SS, etc. Unless we drasticly cut in those areas we are up the river without a paddle so to speak.

Of course if you even mention changing those programs you'll be blasted by both the left and right.

I'm all for doing away with SS. Everyone should save for retirement on their own.

The country's problems may be too difficult to fix and the damage may already be done. It's like we've been shot in the gut and we're just slowly bleeding to death
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Thanks for your "warnings" BI. What would we have done without someone spewing the obvious? Oh, and there is a very valid reason why businesses are hoarding cash. For starters we re-elected a buffoon.
 

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