Why imagine rational discussion of gun control?

Crockett

Crockett

5,000+ Posts
I really even hate the idea of having a rational discussion of gun control because I know whatever facts and logic are out there, every time it ends with pretty much every l legislator I know planting a soft, wet kiiss on the *** of NRA President Wayne LaPierre.

Is it a good idea to have 'waiting periods" when any wacko could go to a gun show, show a false identity and walk out with an arsenal? Would the NRA allow it to be any different? Nope -- that organization is all about advancing the frontiers of gun ownership and that means mutli-round magazine, gun shows and weapons advances that have no sporting purposes will be available to drug dealers in our neighborhood through convenient distribution channels. Weaponry that has no rational sporting purpose will remain as sacrosanct as grandma's Social Security. You have millions of people who look at look to Ted Nugent for compelling ideas on public policy and are circulating posters of an Isreali pre-school teacher with an assault rifle slung over her shoulder as the ideal we should have for America. They give money and such unquestioning political support that if LaPierre says "boo" to a Congressional representative a tough district they'll put a bazillion dollars and boots on the ground to get him out of office.
 
Then just do what the TV show "West Wing" hypothesized 10 years ago. Have every left-leaning, whiny Lib pay the $35 for NRA membership. Outnumber the right-wing nuts within a couple weeks. Call for a referendum to replace him. Call for a referendum to get rid of LCMs, assault weapons, gun shows altogether, etc. If a majority of the membership wanted it, it would be made so.

I'm pretty outspoken in the Costas thread about gun culture, but blaming the legislators and NRA for gun control problems is like blaming legislators and the FCC for allowing bad reality television.
 
Like unions, the NRA served a valuable purpose but has outlived its usefulness. It now exists for the sole purpose of propagating itself and maintaining its power base.
 
I don't understand why it is you leftie, whinny, cry-babies who are afraid of guns, don't want to be nears guns, know nothing about guns, why do y'all keep trying to pick a fight with those of us who do own guns?
 
Look I don't want bad people to have guns. I'm not even big hunter. I go dove hunting once or twice a year.

I own two handguns (I keep these in my car - no handguns in the home). I own a browning shotgun, Saiga 12 shotgun, an AR-15 and Mossberg pistol grip shotgun.

I don't know why the hell I have these guns. I've never even shot the Saiga 12. All of my guns are dead bolted in a closet. Why do I have them? I don't have the first damn clue. What would I do if **** hit the fan and society starts melting down? Probably one of two things:

1. Freak out, hide under my bed and suck my thumb
2. Grab my family, my guns, get in the car and get the hell out of town.

I have no idea of what my reaction would be, but I like having an option.
 
Leave the friggen Bill of Rights alone!!

This should be about a disccusion about the lack of family values, on air violence, and mental health issues. Clearly this kid had some serious mental health issues. Tackle the problem from that end.

There is no need to destroy the consitution in the process
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Rational discussion never seems to start at the root of the problem. On an average day outside most elementary schools, hundreds of kids are exposed to a mentally ill or drunk person in an automobile.

The issue begins with accurate detection and treatment of the mentally ill, not with trying to establish new bans on certain kinds of guns. 10 minutes is a long time when someone has a shotgun or pistol.

I grieve for those kids and families, but rational discussion should start at a rational point. The highlights of gun show loopholes do not address what happened in this situation nor does the number of bullets a particular weapon shoots. If only one person was lost, it is a tragedy. The discussion must start with treating mental illness.
 
I'm comfortable with guns, and have an old shotgun in my house. But that will change after this weekend. I'm really done with all this. For once I would rather see a room full of Gun Rights activists crying about how life is unfair, instead of the parents and families connected to these tragedies. All of you will get over it if the laws are eventually changed, the families in Connecticut however, will not. Try to look at things from that perspective. And if the Taliban invades us soonafter, I'll be the first to apologize.


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Gun bans won't help do anything good. They will only distract from the real issue.

What we need to address is the 24 news cycle's obsession with immortalizing the evil people who commit these killings. These psychos don't kill kids because it's enjoyable or they're easy to shoot. They do it so people will know who they are and remember their names.

They will always find a way to reach their goals until we take away their "prize."
 
I agree with GW. I am concerned with government tyranny. At this point it seems far fetched, but I could see a time in the future where the economy sucks and people have less money and fewer jobs and elect people to help support their needs and wants. When the government runs out of resources to give to the "needy", it will find scapegoats.
 
Texas ex 2000, I think I could actually have an interesting and rational discussion of gun control with you and I hope the PR savvy NRA shows some interest in your idea about studying the root causes of violence. I wish to thank other posters on this thread for demonstrating the impregnable intellectual framework that gives the NRA complete sway in all gun "control" legislation in this country. Even though the number of children killed in this recent outuburst is "statistically insignificant" in the number of Americans shot dead this year, the horror of having six year olds with more holes than a Swiss cheese will force this country to have a gun control debate. Millions of women crying themselves to sleep can't be ignored.
Alas, since I now consider myself a threat to our Constitutional Republic, Ill have to watch the debate from self imposed exile on a remote island somewhere. There, my lack of facility with hunting weapons and my refusal to buy the 100 round clips necessary for a bad shot to hit game will leave me to nearly starve before the pirates come to finish me off for my meager possessions.
 
If what I heard on a news show is correct (and lots of news reports aren't) Connecticut has a ban on assault weapons and yet this woman had them legally registered. Anyone know how she was able to buy and register?

Most of these shootings involve someone is mentally very troubled. And this kid apparently spent hours playing violent video games where your score is based on the speed and number of kills. I don't mind having a rational discussion about guns, but no gun can fire without a person pulling the trigger. It seems easier to limit guns than to try to figure out which mentally-ill person is likely to do something horrendous. And that is the major problem.
 
Several groups have to accept some blame for this type of tragedy.
1. NRA constant push for lax rules, particularly with respect to assault rifles
2. Media outlets for 'bleeds it leads' approach to journalism
3. FCC for constantly lowering the bar for what's allowed on TV
4. Parents for allowing their kids to play 'Call of Duty' and the like

All of these entities played a role in taking these people from the first idea, to justificaiton, to access and capacity to pull stuff like this off. All of them are in part to blame.

And magnitude/volume does matter. Having 4 kids dead from a deer rifle or shotgun is better than having 27 dead from an assault rifle. Will we ever be able to stop all killings? Obvisously not, but if we can reduce the volume and number, that's a worthy goal.

Is it an abridgement of the 2nd amendment? IMO it is, but it is one that I can live with. And that is what this country is supposed to be, a reflection of the values and desires of the majority of its citizenry.
 
3.5 million AR-15s were sold in the U.S. between 1985-2011 and not exported ---- and this is just one kind of semi-automatic carbine that can wreak such havoc. And not even the biggest, actually.

What, exactly, is "gun control" on such weapons going to look like and how would it be instituted when there are Is the government going to knock on my door and demand my carbine? With millions of them out there, do you think it's going to matter one whit to somebody who intends to commit a mass-murder that his guns are legal? You know who would be impacted by such a ban? The law-abiding.

Marijuana and many other drugs are banned yet readily available.

There were 12,664 murder victims last year, of which 323 were killed with rifles. A smaller subset of that were killed by these kinds of weapons.
 
Marijuana was banned and or regulated 40+ years ago. Cocaine, heroin too. Lot of good banning and regulation does.....

as mentioned by someone else above, the root of the problem is the Mentally Ill / mental illness. That needs to be addressed before anything else.
 
The airlines have a "no fly" list, why can't they have a "no can buy a gun" list? Anyone taking psychotropic medications, under the care of a psychologist or psychiatrist are put on the list.
 
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