White Helmets

[Musburger1]

No, they don't play football.

RT interviews three INDEPENDENT journalists willing to expose this propaganda arm of the US/Al Queda joint effort to overthrow another secular government. No major western media outlook has the balls to expose this nor the approval of the US State Department.

 

[Clean]

It's interesting to hear the Russian slant on this mess. But RT (Russia Today), is just as biased as the Western media, probably more so, since RT is a Russian propaganda outlet.

They keep talking about how the White Hats move freely among terrorists, yet don't mention that Syria/Russia is supplying, training, and using Hezbollah, the Iranian controlled terror group, as its boots on the ground in Aleppo. Definitely the pot calling the kettle black.

Tell us a little about your background Musberger. Why are you so passionately pro-Russian?

 

[Musburger1]

First, Hezbollah is a powerful political party based in Lebanon. It has a relationship to Iran dating back to the overthrow of the Shah and the subsequent holding of US hostages. The notariety as a terror organization springs from the suicide attack in Beirut which killed many US soldiers and led Reagan to evacuate the military from the region. Hezbollah to my knowledge has never attacked the US outside of Lebanese soil. Contrast that with Saudi supported Al Qeda which has attacked US interests in the US, the Middle East, and Africa.

RT surely is going to emphasize stories favorable toward Russia, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everything they produce is fiction anymore than the reverse holds true for the Washington Post or NY Times. The journalists on the referenced show aren't RT employees; they are independent, and as such, they will disseminate their work to whomever is willing to give them a voice. Sadly, the biased Western news agencies aren't going to go there.

Clean, I am a 56 year old Texan that has lived here my entire life. Fifteen years ago, like many Americans, I believed the propaganda that Iraq was a threat to national security and that our military was a force for good; that the "war on terror" and creation of the monstrosity called Homeland Security was to make America safe.

Around 2008, the veil started to fall. I began to see the systemic corruption that had infiltrated multiple levels within the government as evident in the subprime housing crises and failure to administer justice. The internet gave voice to various voices which provided research and evidence of corruption, coverup, and failures. It became clear the media actively shuts out contrarian opinions and works to demonize those few who begin to get traction.

Most likely few German citizens in the 1930s fully realized the extent that evil had taken over the leadership. The combination of media, confirmation bias, and denial made it possible for the Nazis to transform Germany into an instrument of destruction and still have majority support from its people. In many respects, something similar has been underway in our nation. It's time to open our eyes.

 

[Clean]

I agree that there's plenty of corruption in the U.S. Government. The Clintons using the State Dept. to amass a fortune is proof of that. And there's no doubt that the biased MSM is in bed with those corrupt politicians.But, I'm pretty sure it's even worse in Moscow. They have a tradition of corruption going back many decades.

And, as for Hezbollah not attacking us outside Lebanon, that's not true. They trained Iraqi militias to build the IEDs that killed and maimed hundreds of US soldiers in Iraq.

Your heart is in the right place, but you're definitely looking in the wrong place for answers.

 

[Musburger1]

Where is the right place to look for answers?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Your heart is in the right place, but you're definitely looking in the wrong place for answers.

And that's what hurts his credibility and judgment with me. He thinks we're a bunch of lying crooks but that Vladimir Putin is a swell guy.

 

[Musburger1]

And that's what hurts his credibility and judgment with me. He thinks we're a bunch of lying crooks but that Vladimir Putin is a swell guy.

Anyone that doesn't recognize that "we are a bunch of lying crooks," (we meaning those in power ostensibly leading the country), is delusional. And Deez, as you fall under that category, your assessment of who is and isn't credible is suspect.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Anyone that doesn't recognize that "we are a bunch of lying crooks," (we meaning those in power ostensibly leading the country), is delusional. And Deez, as you fall under that category, your assessment of who is and isn't credible is suspect.

My view is more nuanced than that. That's why I don't always disagree with you. (See Syria.) There are liars and crooks in our system, but that doesn't mean they control every decision we make. Furthermore, it doesn't make every decision wrong - even some decisions that the liars and crooks influence. On the flip side, you at least seem to view Putin as infallible. Everything he does is honorable and moral, and he's always truthful. I'm not in the "Putin is Hitler" crowd, but I don't trust everything he says and does either. Like any other politician, he's a bullshitter when he needs to be and has a powerful propaganda machine to make his ******** smell better, and to guys like you, he can make it smell like a rose garden.

 

[Musburger1]

My view is more nuanced than that. That's why I don't always disagree with you. (See Syria.) There are liars and crooks in our system, but that doesn't mean they control every decision we make. Furthermore, it doesn't make every decision wrong - even some decisions that the liars and crooks influence. On the flip side, you at least seem to view Putin as infallible. Everything he does is honorable and moral, and he's always truthful. I'm not in the "Putin is Hitler" crowd, but I don't trust everything he says and does either. Like any other politician, he's a bullshitter when he needs to be and has a powerful propaganda machine to make his ******** smell better, and to guys like you, he can make it smell like a rose garden.

Stop erecting straw men. I've never equated Putin with sainthood. That's simply your characterization of my opinion of Putin.

My chief concern is with my own country and it's interventionism and imperialist policy which now threatens the entire world. Putin and Russia have not threatened nor initiated an attack on a sovereign nation. That includes Ukraine and also Georgia, where Georgian forces attacked Russian peace keepers.

Clean, yourself, and probably half a dozen other posters here are at least interested in US developments around the world and should be commended for that. The average American couldn't locate Syria on a map. In time, I'm sure you are capable of adapting your opinions once you've received sufficient information and have sufficient time to process it. To paraphrase a quote from Clean, "your hearts may be in the right place, but I think you are looking in the wrong places for answers."

Just yesterday, Chris Martenson (no, he isn't a Russian agent) wrote an article that reflects my understanding of the state of things as they stand with respect to US foreign policy. Before replying to this post, I request you take 20 minutes and read his article. I can't think of a word I would change in the article. I think his analysis is spot on.

https://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/102294/do-we-really-want-war-russia

 

[Mr. Deez]

Stop erecting straw men. I've never equated Putin with sainthood. That's simply your characterization of my opinion of Putin.

Can you think of an example in which you've thought he was wrong or untruthful?

 

[Musburger1]

Can you think of an example in which you've thought he was wrong or untruthful?

Untruthful? Not to my knowledge.

Wrong? That's open to debate. He's made strategical errors and policy decisions are open to debate.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Untruthful? Not to my knowledge.

Wrong? That's open to debate. He's made strategical errors and policy decisions are open to debate.

I'm not looking for normal human errors. I'm looking for times you've thought he was doing something bad or had bad intentions.

 

[Musburger1]

I'm not looking for normal human errors. I'm looking for times you've thought he was doing something bad or had bad intentions.

Four instances come to mind.

The first would be the massive terrorist explosion which destroyed a large Moscow apartment complex. There was a Frontline Program which provided circumstantial evidence and interviews accusing Putin and the spy agencies of orchestrating a false flag attack in order to garner support for military action against Chechnya and work toward Putin's political advantage; similar to what the 9-11 truth movement alleged with respect to the Bush-Cheney government. I'm open to both scenarios and hope neither are true.

The second would be the numerous journalists murdered in Russia that were critical of the Kremlin. I've read detailed accounts and am convinced Putin was not directly involved as most of these appeared to be instigated at local levels. Also, there is probably more critical analysis and dissent by the media in Russia than in the United States today. This is contrary to what Americans believe, but it's a fact.

Third would be the false accusation that Russia invaded Georgia. Georgia in fact, initiated the attack on Ossetia and killed Russian peacekeepers. Putin responded harshly and appropriately to the aggression.

Lastly, the meme in the West is that Putin invaded Ukraine and forced Crimea to become part of Russia. In fact, the US had attempted a color revolution which quickly turned into a coup. Putin responded in the best interest of Russia and the citizens of Crimea which largely feared the new Ukrainian regime.

So in conclusion, I'm uncommitted as to whether or not Putin did "very bad things" to solidify power. In a gangster state, which is what Russia had devolved into in the 90's, it would be very difficult to take over the reigns and clean house without using strong arm tactics. But as far as foreign policy goes, I see nothing that warrants the fear mongering and demonization that is being engaged in by both our government, military, and media.

 

[Clean]

So Musberger, why is Russia calling all its officials' relatives that are abroad home? Sounds like a provocative act to me.

 

[Musburger1]

So Musberger, why is Russia calling all its officials' relatives that are abroad home? Sounds like a provocative act to me.

I think it's political cover. If you are a politician or someone in the public eye, and your constituents/audience in Russia see that your children are studying abroad in countries they perceive as hostile to Russia, then you are going to receive criticism.

 

[Musburger1]

A little humor from a CNN interview with Russia's equivalent to Secretary of State:

Amanpour: Russia had its own ***** Riot moment. What do you think of Donald Trump's ***** riot moment?

Lavrov: Well, I don't know whether this would ... English is not my mother's tongue and I don't know whether - I don't know - whether I would sound - I mean - decent. There are so many ******* around your presidential campaigns on both sides that I prefer not to comment.