While watching Field of Dreams...

O

origino

250+ Posts
I got to thinking about how players were discovered back in the "old" days. I am sure there were scouts (i guess), but did most high schools have teams? Did all major leaguers come from colleges? Its all such a "science" now its hard to picture it back then.
 
that's a good question. I looked up Babe Ruth as an example. Here's what Wikipedia says about his initial signing:

In early 1914, a teacher at St. Mary's brought George to the attention of Jack Dunn, owner and manager of the then minor-league Baltimore Orioles. After watching Ruth pitch, Dunn signed Ruth to a contract. Since Ruth was only 19 years old, Dunn had to become Ruth's legal guardian as well; at that time, the age of majority was 25.[7] When the other players on the Orioles caught sight of Ruth, they nicknamed him "Jack's newest babe." The reference stayed with Ruth the rest of his life, and he was most commonly referred to as Babe Ruth from then on.

Hook'em!!!
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I didn't cry, but it always gives me that feeling in my throat. I have seen it so often...I bet it makes me cry once my son gets older and we have had a catch or two.

*On a side note...I am really close to saying that "Field of Dreams" is the best sports movie ever. Man, its good.
 
If you get a chance read "The Glory of Their Times" by Lawrence S. Ritter. Excellent book on the very early days of baseball.
 
The best sports biography I've ever read is "Babe" by Robert Creamer.

My son was born on Ruth's birthday, February 6, and I was born a few hours before Babe Ruth gave his emotional speech at his day in Yankee Stadium in 1947.

He was the greatest baseball player who's ever lived.
 
While this conversation has turned to what should be in the baseball board, I have to argue.

Babe Ruth was great, but he was not the greatest to ever live.

I would say that honor would go to one Tyrus Raymond Cobb.

As evidence:

1. 1st player elected into the hall of fame--done so by his peers.
2. Had a much more productive carreer without milking it to where he was no longer productive.
3. The only thing Ruth did well was "Run ok for a fat man"

Yes, I officially prefer COBB to Field of Dreams, though I prefer both and just about every sports movie ever made not named Varsity Blues, to Bull Durham.
 
From "The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract": "...people have argued that Cobb was greater than Ruth because the things that Cobb did--hitting line drives, stealing bases, etc.--are more important than the things that Ruth did. The problem is that if one does not wish to assert some particular point, but one wishes only to identify the greatest player who ever lived, one is drawn almost unavoidably to the conclusion that it was George Ruth. He was a greater hitter than anyone with the possible exception of Williams. I think it is safe to say that, of the men who saw both play, probably 80% felt that Ruth was a better defensive player than Ty Cobb, not even counting the "defensive" value of his pitching."
 
I am a lifelong Tiger fan. I also love COBB. However, not only was Ruth a great hitter, by any measure, especially when compared to the others of his era, he was also a stud pitcher who held multiple pitching records for decades. That, in my mind, makes him the greatest player of all time, not even close. Cobb will have to settle, not that he ever would, for second best in this case.
 
No to threadjack, but how in the heck was the age of majority back then 25? I bet the average person was married and had multiple kids by the age of 25 in that era.
 
You're seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, aren't you?
 
There was baseball played at the high school level in states where weather wasn’t a factor. Many of the Midwest states played American Legion ball in the summer. The Cardinals were the only team west of the Mississippi, until 1958, so almost every city had a semipro team. Major league teams scouted these independent leagues for talent.
 
There were dozens and dozens of minor league and semi-pro teams back then.. Palestine had a semi-pro team that had some players called up to the higher leagues, eventually the major leagues.. Scouts were at these lower level games all the time.
 
Ruth hit .344 lifetime with 714 career home runs in the dead ball era. He was an "Everest in Kansas," the greatest baseball player of all time.
 
The very old days of baseball.....

This is from a time when the 8th grade was the highest level in the USA.....


Baseball was king....

Everyone played baseball for money on local teams, every major business in town had a baseball team...

In a city the size of Baton Rouge in 1907 there were over 20 local teams and that is less than 25k...

Those teams played wide and far, even traveling to Ruston, Shreveport, New Orleans....

The talent level in baseball in those days was better than today...

Bath Ruth signing with the majors at 19 is very old for those times...

Many of the minor leaguers were only 16-18 years old and the minor leagues were in every town across American...

Finding talent was never a problem, as a scout you could train to New Orleans one day and then up to Jackson Miss, and in a week you could cover most of the big cities.

Shoeless Joe Jackson played with the New Orleans Pelicans before being called up and the Pelicans were one of the top minor league teams in that day.
 
My two cents...best hitter ever, Ted Williams. Best overall baseball player, a tie between Willie Mays and the late Roberto Clemente. I wish I could have seen Ty Cobb, Joe DiMaggio, etc. in their prime, but I can't imagine better overall players than Mays and Clemente. I'd have to argue for Hoosiers as the best sports movie, but I can buy into Field Of Dreams as best movie, baseball division. (I like Major League and Bull Durham better, though.)
 
Coolhorn, Bill James in his "The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract" rates these centerfielders at their peak value:

1. Mickey Mantle
2. Ty Cobb
3. Willie Mays
4. Joe DiMaggio

Ratef for their career value, he ranks these:

1. Ty Cobb
2. Joe DiMaggio
3. Willie Mays
4. Tris Speaker
5. Mickey Mantle

James ranking of right fielders at their peak value has Ruth first and Clemente sixth. Ranked at their career value, he has Ruth first and Clemente ninth.

For left field at their peak value, he has Stan Musual ranked first ahead of Williams with Ralph Kiner ranked third.

His career value stats again put Musial number one with Williams number two.

James also ranks the 100 greatest players of the 20th century. For peak value, he has these:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
3. Mickey Mantle
4. Lefty Grove
5. Sandy Koufax
6. Lou Gehrig
7. Walter Johnson
8. Joe Morgan
9. Stan Musial
10. Ted Williams
11. Ty Cobb
12. Willie Mays
13. Christy Mathewson
14. Joe DiMaggio
Clemente is not on the top 29 list. (I saw Clemente hit a looong opposite field home run in the Astrodome in 1966 and agree that he had a cannon for an arm)

Career value rankings are these:

1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
3. Lefty Grove
4. Stan Musial (my favorite position player. Saw him at Sportsmans' Park in 1957)
5. Henry Aaron
6. Ty Cobb
7. Lou Gehrig
8. Joe DiMaggio
9. Willie Mays
10. Ted Williams
11. Warren Spahn (my favorite pitcher)
12. Walter Johnson
19. Mickey Mantle

Clemente is not on the top 29 list.

This book is copyrighted 1985.
 
I'm guessing the book cost more than my two cents...especially considering all the trouble somebody went to ranking all of those players. You know what opinions are like...I've got mine, and he has his rankings...
 
You all are leaving out an entire group that inludes Josh Gibson and Satchel Page

I just wanted to chime in and say that this is a great thread, Field of Dreams brings a tear to my eye every time and the Natural was the best ever.
 
coolhorn - James' ratings may just be an opinion, but you've got to admit that he devoted a helluva lot of energy into forming his opinion.
 
Actually, I got to thinking...depending on your definition of sports...the best sports movie I've ever seen is "The Cincinatti Kid". (...and don't go telling me that Poker isn't a sport...ESPN and the Deuce certainly think it is.) McQueen is his usual cool self, and no movie with Ann Margaret is bad!
 
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