Where have we heard this theme before?

H

Horn6721

Hook'em
Anyone? Beuler?
"The Taliban, which harbored al Qaeda in Afghanistan in the lead up to the 9/11 attacks on America in 2001, will have an office in Afghanistan and engage in direct talks with the democratic government there, President Barack Obama and Afghan President Hamid Karzai affirmed at a joint White House news conference Friday.

“Ultimately security gains must be matched by political progress, so we’ve recommitted our nations to a reconciliation process between the Afghan government and the Taliban,” Obama said. “President Karzai updated me on the Afghan government’s road map to peace, and today we agreed that this process should be advanced by the opening of a Taliban office to facilitate talks.”The Link

Peace in our time.
rolleyes.gif
 
What else are we going to do? The war is a stalemate, and we don't have the stomach to really finish it off. We'll probably leave a permanent base over there with a few thousand troops at it and hope for the best.
 
I am curious how people feel about the surge and resultant soldier deaths and costs now that the outcome is clarified.
 
I think that with our goal apparently being to legitimize the Taliban and solidify their place with the Afghanistan government, we could have managed it with a lot fewer soldiers and military conflict.
 
i agree
IF our goal was to legitimize the Taliban we could have saved so many lives by just recognizing them right away.

I guess that is how many in Europe felt including Chamberlain, Hitler and Nazis were so powerful it is futile to try and stop them so let's let them have their way
and they won't kill anymore women just because they want to go to school.
Or is the logic that since they( taliban) are so far awy from most Western nations they can't hurt us so let's leave them alone and they will leave us alone?

I am not saying send more people over there to be killed. I am asking when we decided we , the Westen world , couldn't defeat the Taliban by any means.

and after the Taliban who is next? Iran?
 
Yeah, why don't we just send in some Young Democrats, and Young Republicans with the Peace Corps and help them build a political system like ours? I mean, when people self govern, they want things just like here in the United States, right?
 
I'm just offering that any long-lasting government in Afghanistan is going to have to reflect the aspirations of its people, which aren't very similar to the aspirations here.
 
Do you think denying the Taliban access to legitimate political power is going to make it go away? If it would I'd be all for it. Those guys' values and mine are completely at odds.

The Taliban doesn't have legitimate political power in Pakistan where they made the terrorist attack on that poor girl.

There is a difference between having the Taliban as a participant in a government that is democratic and establishes rule of law than one in which it holds power through violence and threat. The Taliban as a participant in elected government is much less scary than as a militant force in control of a country.
 
The Link
The Link


17000+ dead in Afghanistan? Was that a typo?

The problem with treating the Taliban as legit in the least is that they are not, politically. They follow Sharia law which is barbaric towards women at minimum and unfair to non Muslims certainly. They are more akin to pirates as far as I can tell.

While they have influence creating havoc and through intimidation, murder, it cannot be recognized as legit unless you are going to agree that even a majority who want to abuse women and mistreat non Muslims are legit?
 
MrD
So because we didn't react as quickly as we might have during WWII and didn't seem to take the side of German people who worked against the Nazi , does that mean we never should support people who are trying to throw evil dictators and murdering ruling governments out?
would you say we stepped up and helped all people after WWII?

But let's set aside the known atrocities the Taliban has conducted against its own people
did we forget the role the Talban played in enabling Al Quaeda?
I guess now that we have met with Hamas, support the extreme islamists in Libya, praise the MB in Egypt and ignored the cry of iranians who want that gov't taken down I think BO has made his ideology clear to the world.
Recognizing the Taliban is merely another step

he is right. We aren't special any longer
 
Uninformed, my statement was not in advocacy or support of the Taliban. You made that conjecture yourself. I'm simply stating that Afghans don't want what I want nor what you want. It would be like me helping someone pick out jewelry for nose or eyebrow piercings or an appropriate tattoo. All that stuff mortifies me, but people are free to do what they want to do and had best seek advice from folks like Dennis Rodman.

In Germany and Japan, admirable democratic governments were set up and were operating on their own in less time that we were in Iraq or Afghanistan. We have many values in common with the Germans and Japanese. Not so many with the average Afghan or Iraqui.
 
Croc?
Are you really trying to compare nose piercings with life?
The Taliban doesn't value life like the regular Afghan people especailly women and female children do.
And that is the issue, not specific petty differences between cultures on body piercings.

BO is recognizing and helping to legitimize an organization that thinks it is ok to murder female children who want to go to school.
 
To the extent people are free to make choices I don't like very much, piercings, tatoos and nationalists governments that don't protect human rights are similar. Do you see how Afghans govern themselves as something within your circle of influence? Personally, I don't think it within mine.
I wish Texas has a better governor. Obviously all my efforts against him have come to naught, but it is an area where I can intelligently exert effort, moreso that sorting out things in Afghanistan, where I admittedly lack understanding and perspective. 6721 If you and Uninformed can come up with a way we can help Afghanistan become a more democratic country that educates and values women just let me know. But for the record I don't think my pretending the Taliban doesn't exist or represent the political will of many Afghans will do any good.
 
yeah Rick Perry and the Taliban are almost identical as is Obama. Obviously, you don't want a real discussion. As we know there is a big difference between these groups and individuals. Perry hasn't killed anyone and Obama has only led to the death of thousands of soldiers with his ill-advised surge while the Taliban directly kills Americans, infidels, westerners, uppity women, non-believers, and anyone who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If this is what we wanted, we could have achieved it many years ago and saved billions/trillions and thousands of American lives.
 
A real discussion? Did I say Rick Perry is the same as the Taliban or Obama? Crap, I didn't know Naproxen is a hallucinogen.

To simplify -- who is governor of Texas is not mine to decide, but it is within my circle of influence. I can intelligently apply my effort to build support for alternative candidates and erode support for Rick Perry..

Who governs Afghanistan, I think, is not a reasonable place for me to apply effort.

If you or 6721, who are critical of Obama and the Afghan leaders, can point me to a better plan where my communications efforts can make a difference, let me know.
 
It seems reasonable to me to expect them to have a republic style democracy as well as certain minimums in thier human rights amongst other things. Checks and balances put in place to be sure they are upheld and that the country can't devolve even into the Chavez style faux democracy.

Women should be guaranteed rights. All religions should be guaranteed rights. Etc. etc.
 
Deez,
I couldn't agree more. If/when we engage in another conflict it should be one of two options 1) totally destroy their military capacity to do us harm and then walk away or 2) totally control the area and dictate terms of rebuilding in our image.

The half-*** method of part war, part rebuilding and letting the corrupt officials remain in place to siphon off funds the whole while is moronic.

Not too mention, this approach could serve as a lesson for future antagonist. Mess with US and it is very likely that I lose power at a minimum or get killed/jailed in the other end of the spectrum.
 
Tell me, who in world history has ever been able to pacify Afghanistan? ???? No one, so what makes you think pouting about it makes it possible. Neo con fantasy world
 
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