Welding.... how hard is it to learn?

[horn4life]

Here's the deal, I want to semi-fabricate some wrought iron. I found a site The Linkthat has premade components that I could use to redo a "window opening" in my courtyard. Presently it's cedar and I am sick of it, plus it's starting to rot out at the bottom.

Anyhow they have decorative picket castings that can be slid on a tag welded in place to make a more ornate look without the cost. But I would need to weld these on to secure them securely.The Link Something like this

that slides onto the picket.

Anyhow how difficult would it be to spot weld these onto a picket do you think it would be?

 

[NickDanger]

I've only welded steel, but it's pretty easy. I have my own MIG welder at home and a stick welder at the ranch. I also have a stick welder that runs off your car like an alternator, but I've never hooked it up to a vehicle. Stupid e-bay purchase. The Link

Welding is pretty easy to learn, but there is a learning curve. The hardest thing about your project is as a beginner you are going to overweld the spots. You will have a fairly ugly lump of weld and slag and then you will want to grind it down to make it pretty. With an ornate deal like that it is going to be VERY difficult to grind down your welds. You just can't get a wheel in there. Quarters are too tight. That is where experience comes in. You will REALLY want to have a precision weld that needs little or no grinding.

I'd encourage you to pursue the welding skill, but not with this as your first project.

 

[NickDanger]

I don't know. You might be able to lay them up in such a way that you could do some grinding. And I take it back, I repaired some wrought iron furniture for a buddy and my MIG worked fine come to think of it.

 

[hullabelew]

MIG Welding Basics

Don't know how many of these things you need to do, but you can easily ruin more than you actually get done they way you want. Read this guy's site above and decide if you have enough background to get it done in a way that is acceptable to you. You can easily ruin a lot of material, very quickly, if you don't have enough welding experience. It takes a lot of practice to do it correctly. This includes creating a weld that holds well and looks good.

I have never tried to work with something as ornate as you are talking about, but I imagine it could be a ***** to work with.

If it is something you want to learn, and keep up with, great. However, I think you could hire someone to do it much cheaper and with less aggrevation, if this is just a one time deal.

 

[NickDanger]

That guy makes it seem a LOT more complicated than it is. There is no need to **** with gas. It will make a cleaner weld, but flux core wire is far less hassle.

You could probably get some guy at a body shop to spot weld your project for you for not a lot of jack.

 

[hablue65]

I was a professional welder for 9 years. I worked mostly with stick welding. I did however learn to use a TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) and a MIG(Metal Inert Gas). I would reccommend starting with a stick. In about 30 minutes you should be able to bond 2 pieces together pretty easy. All it takes is a little practice. Once you get use to stick welding, basic princables are the same for other types of welding.

MIG and TIG are really the same idea. With TIG a tungsten electrode surrounded by a cone of inert gas (helium, argon CO2) is used to heat the metal and a filler is fed manually with the other hand. MIG the filler is the spool of wire fed through a gun inside a cone of inert gas. The only difficulty I had with a MIG was travel speed myself and the machine. That is where stick welding knowledge will come in handy. A book or guide will give you an idea of the speed range. But actual hands on working with the equipment will give you the experience to adjust the speed to the speed you are traveling with your hands. Different machines require different speeds also.

To do the type of work you want to do I would reccommend using a 6011, 3/32 dia. welding rod at about 80 amps. The trick to welding is to strike an arc and keep the rod as close to the work as possible without it sticking to your work. I know easier said that done for beginners. If your rod is to far away from your work you will not get a goood weld or a pretty weld. In your case you just want to tack the piece on each side so beauty is not the purpose. Try to strike an arc and hold the rod in that position until the bead is about 2 times the diameter of the rod. THe most important thing to remember is do not look at the welding rod while welding look at the pool of molten metal below the rod. If you have an arc struck the rod will transfer itselt to the molten metal. Once you have finished tacking all the pieces in place take a grinder with a wire wheel and buff the welds. This will remove the slag and and any splatter or "buckshot" as they call it in the trade. Start with a 6011 rod they are the easiest to use for learning.
All welding rods are designed for specific applications. Some are for flat work, some are for uphill welding only, some are for overhead. THere is a rod made for anything needed. The 6011 rod is made for all around welding it can be used in any position. The drawback to 6011 is they are not made for beauty and they splatter like hell. Where long sleeve cotton shirts to protect your arms, long pants and leather pull on boots.

Hope this helps. Keep practicing the more you do the better you get. One thing I have noticed about welding is it is like riding a bike. You never forget how. I haven't welded much in about 12 years but my dad need some work on a trailer over the weekend and my beads looked as good as they did 12 years ago when I earned a living at it.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!

 

[HilltopHorn]

I would imagine that these medallions are not going to weigh too much, or have a lot of stress put on them (unless there are yard apes around who will use them for climbing practice). So there might be a couple of other options, the first being attach them mechanically, with self tapping screws, which you can get in a rounded head, making for a neat appearance. Or you can braze the items on using oxy/acetylene and brass rods, which you can get prefluxxed at Lowes, HD, etc, or naked and buy your own flux. You could also use a MAPP gas torch, which is a propane style torch that heats hot enough to braze. Unless you are looking to do quite a bit of welding, these two options are less costly, and will be just as effective.

If you go with the welding or brazing, make sure to put the juncture at the top of the sleeve. That will help reduce water collecting between the sleeve and the square tubing.

 

[Baboso]

Hilltop,

Where can you get those self-tapping screws? I've got to attach a flag pole holder to a metal mail box post made out of square 1/4 inch tubing.

Home Depot or Lowe's have them?

 

[accuratehorn]

It is a skill, a craft. Like all such endeavors, they are not too hard to learn, but hard to be really good at. It takes a lot of practice to make a professional looking weld.

 

[NickDanger]

Home Depot and Lowes have them. I don't think they are Tapcon Brand, but they are located next to the Tapcon products. At the near end of the aisle with all the screws and nails.

 

[HilltopHorn]

Nick was right about getting them at either Lowe's or HD. Tapcon is probably the best of the bunch, but you can also use regular metal self tapping screws, which come with either hexhead/screwdriver combination heads, or just rounded screwdriver heads. Beware that the drill bits sold to use with the Tapcon screws are masonary bits, not metal bits, since Tapcon is usually used for concrete, brick, stone, etc.

Make sure you get the right size bit, a nice sharp bit will make all the difference. One too small will make it almost impossible to start the screw, and one too large the screw will strip out, as that square tubing is probably of the thin wall variety.

Use a center punch to mark your holes, will keep the bit from wandering.

Hope this helps.

 

[horn4life]

Wow! I was expecting one comment and to be searchign down the page for some input. Thanks guys!

Actually all fo the more ornate pieces like the one I showed int he post ahve a "C" shaped braket on the back that slides over pickets. Tto I just need to tack the thing on. I could probably use some sort of adhesive, but WANT to learn a wee bit about welding. Just to broaden my own skill set... probably watched one too many "American Chopper" episodes one late night...

The larger 10 gauge Stars in a circle will probably be more difficult but I figure I can all of the spot welds before I begin assembly. All the metal is going to attach into a wooden frame. Unless I get very excited and decide start on a wroght iron fence and gate for the side yard. Even then probably just more spot welding except for maybe the gate. That might just be easier to sepc and buy anyhow.

ALSO---- the stuff I will get is raw, any suggestions on prepping for painting? I was thinkking something like liquid sander to clean and provide tack. Any thougts on this?

 

[hablue65]

horn4 life,

most wrought iron fences are powder coated after fabrication . That is something you would have to have professionally done. If you want to simply paint it get a product called OSPHO. Clean all areas well and apply the OSPHO with a pump up sprayer or brush. Let it set for a day or so. THe OSPHO will turn it black especially areas where rust has begun. Prior to painting wipe it down with no-sand or lacquer thinner. Prime it with a good metal primer. Use several lite coats of primer instead of one or two heavy coats. Once primer has dried, paint it with a good metal finish coat. Again it is better to put 5 thin coats of finish than two heavy coats. If you use a good industrial primer and paint you will get a better look. Sherwin Williams makes very good Industrial grade products. But they don't give it away. If you skimp any where skimp on the finish coat not the primer. With the industrial products it would be better to spray it than brush it. A paint brush will leave brush marks that may not dry out. You can pick up a quart cup at Harbor Freight Tools very cheap probably around $15.00. Then all you will need is access to an air compressor.

 

[NickDanger]

I couldn't remember the name, but OSPHO is where it begins and ends. You are so right.

 

[Black Scholes]

Every time I see this thread title, I think it says "Wedding ..." and my immediate reaction is 'No, don't do it!'.

Never mind.