Watching two Dallas Reps speaking in House
- Thread starter Horn69
- Start date
The whole fiasco should make you ashamed to be a Democrat. I've given the GOP plenty of flack for being unyielding and unreasonable in budget negotiations, but that's simply not the case here, regardless of what the media narrative is (which is predictably that Republicans suck because they always think Republicans suck unless they side with Democrats and even then, they suck more than the Democrats do).
However, what's objectively happened is that both houses have passed a continuing resolution with different terms. (Yes, it's absurd that our government runs on CRs now, but that's just the way the system works now.) Constitutionally, the next step is the referral of the legislation to a conference committee that is supposed draft a conference report that is typically compromise legislation. The House has invited the Senate to join them in conference. The Senate has refused. That means they are the ones digging in and saying "my way or the highway." That's not a matter of opinion or analysis. That's what they're actually doing.
I know the Democratic line. We shouldn't have to budge on Obamacare. We won the election. ********. First, when Democrats lost the 2004 election, did they stop ******* with the Iraq War and the Bush tax cuts? Of course not.
Second, there isn't a national mandate in favor of Obamacare. Democrats didn't run on Obamacare in 2012. They mostly ran away from it, and when the issue was brought up, they were on defense every step of the way. The public didn't like it then, and they don't like it now.
Third, regardless of the merits of Obamacare, it's a clusterfuck and isn't ready for implementation. If you disagree, then why has the Administration had to delay parts of it (which is illegal, by the way) and grant exemptions? It's a mess. Anybody who looks at the issue with even a hint of objectivity can see that.
Fourth, what's the friggin' harm of going to conference? Will the GOP insist on a full repeal or no deal? Maybe, but if so, let them do that. Let them be the jackasses who aren't willing to make a deal. However, they probably won't. They know the media is going to clobber them on the shutdown. It always does. A respectable compromise could be a delay for a period of months. During that time, the legislation could be fine-tuned, something even the White House tacitly (and sometimes even explicitly) acknowledges.
However, what's objectively happened is that both houses have passed a continuing resolution with different terms. (Yes, it's absurd that our government runs on CRs now, but that's just the way the system works now.) Constitutionally, the next step is the referral of the legislation to a conference committee that is supposed draft a conference report that is typically compromise legislation. The House has invited the Senate to join them in conference. The Senate has refused. That means they are the ones digging in and saying "my way or the highway." That's not a matter of opinion or analysis. That's what they're actually doing.
I know the Democratic line. We shouldn't have to budge on Obamacare. We won the election. ********. First, when Democrats lost the 2004 election, did they stop ******* with the Iraq War and the Bush tax cuts? Of course not.
Second, there isn't a national mandate in favor of Obamacare. Democrats didn't run on Obamacare in 2012. They mostly ran away from it, and when the issue was brought up, they were on defense every step of the way. The public didn't like it then, and they don't like it now.
Third, regardless of the merits of Obamacare, it's a clusterfuck and isn't ready for implementation. If you disagree, then why has the Administration had to delay parts of it (which is illegal, by the way) and grant exemptions? It's a mess. Anybody who looks at the issue with even a hint of objectivity can see that.
Fourth, what's the friggin' harm of going to conference? Will the GOP insist on a full repeal or no deal? Maybe, but if so, let them do that. Let them be the jackasses who aren't willing to make a deal. However, they probably won't. They know the media is going to clobber them on the shutdown. It always does. A respectable compromise could be a delay for a period of months. During that time, the legislation could be fine-tuned, something even the White House tacitly (and sometimes even explicitly) acknowledges.
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
What a joke.
The "compromise" was delay or defund Obamacare.
The Senate twice passed a clean CR. The House would not even allow a vote on it.
And the time for a real Conference Committee would have been on the Senate passed budget earlier this year.
The only issue this time is Obamacare. There is no compromise. You either fund the government or you don't. You are either an unAmerican terrorist or you aren't. You either get being the minority party or you don't. Where exactly is there any room to compromise?
How does a Conference Committee do anything? It is an empty gesture. The Senate passed a clean CR twice. The House passed one with defunding and then "compromised" with a one year delay.
Why should you meet? What gets worked out?
This is silly spin from a silly party. I remember how well this worked in 1995-96. I guess we get to see how well you gerrymandered your districts.
The "compromise" was delay or defund Obamacare.
The Senate twice passed a clean CR. The House would not even allow a vote on it.
And the time for a real Conference Committee would have been on the Senate passed budget earlier this year.
The only issue this time is Obamacare. There is no compromise. You either fund the government or you don't. You are either an unAmerican terrorist or you aren't. You either get being the minority party or you don't. Where exactly is there any room to compromise?
How does a Conference Committee do anything? It is an empty gesture. The Senate passed a clean CR twice. The House passed one with defunding and then "compromised" with a one year delay.
Why should you meet? What gets worked out?
This is silly spin from a silly party. I remember how well this worked in 1995-96. I guess we get to see how well you gerrymandered your districts.
So I woke up today and the government is shut down.
Funny, my life hasn't been impacted one bit. Maybe most of the federal government is bloated, grossly expensive, and totally useless to the daily lives of average Americans... hmmmmmm.....
Funny, my life hasn't been impacted one bit. Maybe most of the federal government is bloated, grossly expensive, and totally useless to the daily lives of average Americans... hmmmmmm.....
CanaTigers
2,500+ Posts
majorwhiteapples
5,000+ Posts
Sangre
Does anybody know how many times the government shutdown under Tip O'Neil?
Not that the Democrats ever gerrymandered districts from the 1930's till the mid 90's and the begininng of Big Government big debt.
Does anybody know how many times the government shutdown under Tip O'Neil?
Not that the Democrats ever gerrymandered districts from the 1930's till the mid 90's and the begininng of Big Government big debt.
majorwhiteapples
5,000+ Posts
WIC, one of the most fraudulent programs ever created.
Maybe women in crisis shouldn't get pregnant until they get on their feet, take some self responsibility if you can't afford the child. I guess the only other choice is abortion, you gotta love the liberals and their choices.
Maybe women in crisis shouldn't get pregnant until they get on their feet, take some self responsibility if you can't afford the child. I guess the only other choice is abortion, you gotta love the liberals and their choices.
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
Do I think the state insurance exchanges are ready to go?
While I am sure there will be some start up issues, the new enrollments are not until January 1, 2014 so yes I think they are ready. As with all new programs, there are likely to be some adjustments and growing pains.
A number of the new features of Obamacare are already in place and for the roughly 80% of the public with some form of health insurance there will be little to no impact.
_____________________________
I love the attacks on the poor. 800,000 people are now out of work today without a paycheck. I guess they worked for the federal government so this is good. I have always viewed selfishness and greed as bad things, but for some it is a way of life. Kudos.
While I am sure there will be some start up issues, the new enrollments are not until January 1, 2014 so yes I think they are ready. As with all new programs, there are likely to be some adjustments and growing pains.
A number of the new features of Obamacare are already in place and for the roughly 80% of the public with some form of health insurance there will be little to no impact.
_____________________________
I love the attacks on the poor. 800,000 people are now out of work today without a paycheck. I guess they worked for the federal government so this is good. I have always viewed selfishness and greed as bad things, but for some it is a way of life. Kudos.
paos
No you didn't come close to answering it. You waffled around on a few items but even then you did not answer in the affirmative.
see there is an entire law, not just the exchanges .
do you think obamacare is ready to be implemented as the law was passed and signed?
No you didn't come close to answering it. You waffled around on a few items but even then you did not answer in the affirmative.
see there is an entire law, not just the exchanges .
do you think obamacare is ready to be implemented as the law was passed and signed?
Maybe those 800,000 should use today to look for a new job. There are probably enough open positions in Texas alone to take care of 10% of them. Oh, I personally know (not really friends with) five couples that combined make over $60k (some or most of that not reported nor taxed) but don't get married so they can stay on WIC and/or lone star. By the way their cards were loaded yesterday so those poor people can still get their free food.
Oh, does that 800,000 include the 600,000 postal employees? Maybe we can shut that mess down permanently and save a few billion a year.
The same reason the senate won't pass the house version.
800,000 parasites not able to milk the taxpayer for a few days. As the taxpayer being milked, it feels really good.
I'll ignore your silly attempt to insult me. Other Dems are more creative.
I will however answer your question
"Why wouldn't and won't the House allow a vote on the Senate version of the bill? "
this is gov't 101
and the answer is the senate version did not get out of house committee. NO piece of lege gets voted on without going through the appropriate committee
But it did go through committee. You may not like the answer but there it is
and I will not insult you by calling you childish.
Reid is not even letting House proposals go through committee
I will however answer your question
"Why wouldn't and won't the House allow a vote on the Senate version of the bill? "
this is gov't 101
and the answer is the senate version did not get out of house committee. NO piece of lege gets voted on without going through the appropriate committee
But it did go through committee. You may not like the answer but there it is
and I will not insult you by calling you childish.
Reid is not even letting House proposals go through committee
pasotex
2,500+ Posts
The overwhelming majority of the public does not want the government shut down over Obamacare. The number is 18% who support this nonsense.
You are just wrong that there is some compromise on this issue. There is none. If the House was allowed to vote on the CR from the Senate what would be the result? This should tell you how reasonable this issue is.
And then what does this little band of traitors do on the debt ceiling? What is your position on them forcing a sovereign default over Obamacare.
You guys lost on this in 2008 and again in 2012. There is no do over again and again and again. This is not the way a democracy works or should works especially when you only "control" one third of the legislative process and by a relatively small margin.
As for what the public thinks about the ACA, this is interesting. If you poll on the features, it has widespread support. If you call it Obamacare, it still has support if you actually examine the numbers. The only way that it does not have support is if you add the number of people (usually around 16% and including me) who think that it did not go far enough (usually think it should have included a public option) to the group of people who do not support it. This is the press creating an issue.
It is a joke to think a one year delay of the exchanges or expansion of Medicaid represents a "compromise". This isn't a middle ground at all. A middle ground would be to reduce the medical device tax for a year. A real middle ground would be to pass the CR from the Senate and then negotiate on the rest.
But the Tea Baggers in the House are not about negotiating at all. They are unAmerican terrorists who would rather shut the entire government down if they don't get their way. This is what this is all about. Period. The Senate passed a budget six months ago and requested a conference committee from the House. The House refused. Why does the House want one now?
You are just wrong that there is some compromise on this issue. There is none. If the House was allowed to vote on the CR from the Senate what would be the result? This should tell you how reasonable this issue is.
And then what does this little band of traitors do on the debt ceiling? What is your position on them forcing a sovereign default over Obamacare.
You guys lost on this in 2008 and again in 2012. There is no do over again and again and again. This is not the way a democracy works or should works especially when you only "control" one third of the legislative process and by a relatively small margin.
As for what the public thinks about the ACA, this is interesting. If you poll on the features, it has widespread support. If you call it Obamacare, it still has support if you actually examine the numbers. The only way that it does not have support is if you add the number of people (usually around 16% and including me) who think that it did not go far enough (usually think it should have included a public option) to the group of people who do not support it. This is the press creating an issue.
It is a joke to think a one year delay of the exchanges or expansion of Medicaid represents a "compromise". This isn't a middle ground at all. A middle ground would be to reduce the medical device tax for a year. A real middle ground would be to pass the CR from the Senate and then negotiate on the rest.
But the Tea Baggers in the House are not about negotiating at all. They are unAmerican terrorists who would rather shut the entire government down if they don't get their way. This is what this is all about. Period. The Senate passed a budget six months ago and requested a conference committee from the House. The House refused. Why does the House want one now?
Weekly Prediction Contest
* Predict HORNS-AGGIES *
Sat, Nov 30 • 6:30 PM on ABC
Recent Threads
-
The Media Industry
- Started by texas_ex2000
- Replies: 8K
- West Mall
-
Black Lives Matter; The Cerebral Warlords of Our Time
- Started by iatrogenic
- Replies: 1K
- West Mall
-
New Jaguar TV Commercial!?
- Started by WorsterMan
- Replies: 3
- West Mall
Prediction Results Threads
