War Continues to Take its Toll

Satchel

2,500+ Posts
We should get out of Afghanistan now:

U.S. soldier kills 16 Afghan civilians in unprovoked attack

McClatchy Newspapers

KABUL, Afghanistan -- A U.S. soldier killed 16 Afghan civilians on Sunday, including three women and nine children, in an unprovoked attack in southern Kandahar province, Afghan officials said.

Five other people were wounded in the shooting at Belandi-Pul village of the Panjway district when the soldier entered homes and opened fire, according to a statement from President Hamid Karzai's office.

"This intentional killing and terror is an unforgivable act," Karzai said.

The attack threatens to further worsen relations between the U.S.-led coalition and Afghans, already badly strained by the recent burning of Korans and other religious material by U.S. military personnel. That incident, at the U.S.-run Bagram airbase, north of Kabul, sparked a series of demonstrations and attacks on bases belonging to the U.S. coalition in which at least 30 Afghans were killed.

President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called Karzai to offer their condolences and assure him that those responsible will be held accountable.

"I am deeply saddened by the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians," Obama said in a written statement. "I offer my condolences. ... This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan. I fully support Secretary Panetta's and General Allen's commitment to get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible."

Initial accounts Sunday said the U.S. soldier left his base at 3 a.m. and walked to nearby homes where he opened fire. There were widely varying claims about the number of dead and wounded.

"Seven are believed to have been killed and eight wounded," said Javed Faisal, a spokesman for the Kandahar governor earlier today. "The number of dead could rise."

In a statement, a Taliban spokesman put the number killed at 50.

A spokesman for the International Security Assistance Force, the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan, confirmed that the shooting had taken place, but said he could not confirm the number of dead or wounded.

"A United States service member was detained today in connection with an incident that resulted in Afghan casualties in Kandahar province," said Maj. Jason Waggoner, an ISAF spokesman. "There were multiple civilians wounded, but I don't have a specific number. All the wounded have been taken to coalition medical facilities and are currently being treated."

The ISAF commander, U.S. Marine Gen. John R. Allen, said he was shocked and saddened by the attack, which he described in a statement as "deeply appalling."

"I offer my profound regret and deepest condolences to the victims and their families," Allen said. "I pledge to the noble people of Afghanistan my commitment to a rapid and thorough investigation."

The only previous documented case of an unprovoked U.S. military attack on Afghan civilians came in 2010, when an Army Stryker brigade killed 3 people, apparently for sport.

The U.S. Embassy offered its condolences to the victims, and said in a statement that it was "saddened by this violent act against our Afghan friends."

The embassy said U.S. forces "are providing the highest level of care" for the injured. "We are still attempting to ascertain the facts," the embassy said.

Jan Agha, who lives near the site of the incident, told McClatchy the U.S. soldier attacked two houses in the village of Gerambai as well as two houses in Belandi-Pul, four kilometers away, including the home of his brother-in-law, Mohammad Naim. He confirmed the government account of dead and injured.

"In Belandi, four civilians were martyred, and five wounded," said Agha. He said his brother-in-law, Naim, and Naim's son and daughter were among the wounded in Belandi.

"In the house next to his, Sayed Jan's house, four people were killed and two were wounded," he added.

Twelve people were killed in Gerambai, Agha said - 11 in a house belonging to a farmer named Haji Wazir, who was away at the time.

"Their rooms were set on fire after they were killed," Agha said. "I saw the house that was burnt. This wasn't the work of just one person."

However, Capt. Justin Brockhoff, a Kandahar-based ISAF spokesman, said the coalition had no information that more than one person was involved in the attack.

(Stephenson and Safi are McClatchy special correspondents.)

Read more here:The Link
 
We might as well just leave now. The longer we stay the more we become the Great Satan. We failed at winning the hearts and minds, if that was ever even possible.
 
I tried to get my dog to eat spinach once. I spent about 15 minutes trying to get him to eat it. But he just wouldnt. You know what? I eventually gave up. Dogs dont eat spinach. They arent made that way and arent wired that way. So now I eat the spinach and I dont waste my money trying to get him to eat it. Works for me.
 
I've been saying this for a long time. There is little for us to win - only nation building will make us safer. And there is a lot for us to lose in dollars and lives. There are much better uses of our scarce resources.

What I find interesting in all of this is how little traction my opinion seems to have. Funerals aren't posted all over the news, there are no longer death counts on TV, the Cindy Sheehans of the world are quiet, and there is no increase in whirled peas and coexist bumper stickers. I understand that it is because we have a dem president, but I would hope that people would stop the hypocrisy and do what they know is right. What I am saying is that it will require activism from the Dem base for us to leave. Glad to see more of the dems on this board starting to take a second look.
 
I agree (hard to believe, right?) I see less and less benefit of being over there, and honestly I wasn't that sold on it to begin with. Unless something's going on behind the scenes, it doesn't appear that we're accomplishing much of anything.
 
Agree. I originally supported the action but it doesn't seem as if anything is changing.

I'll be interested to see what the reaction will be to the recent killings - as horrible as they are.
 
This is what confuses me- usually Conservatives and Liberals can't agree that Monday comes after Sunday. Here, everyone seems to agree.

So, why the hell are we not expediting the departure of troops in Afghanistan?

As smart as it may have seemed to win hearts and minds, help them with infrastructure- it just isn't working. We can always parachute troops in for urgent missions, or perhaps keep one small but well guarded base such that special ops can deploy when needed. 200 troops Max, primarily to guard an embassy.
 
Saddam was a counterweight largely because we supported his *** during the 1980s. And then went in under the guise of liberating the people from him. See the problem here?

And Saddam was only needed as a counterweight because Iran kicked out the puppet we had there. We keep digging a deeper hole of **** for ourselves with every dictator we support over there. We reap what we sow, and now we are broke.

Iran is surrounded by us. They could have 1000 nukes, and it wouldnt matter. We have them completely surrounded by our army, air force and navy. People need to stop acting like they are this great threat. Its one of the biggest jokes ever perpetuated. They aint gonna do ****.
 
I'm torn on whether to pull or stick this out. I think the Pottery Barn theory, espoused by Collin Powell applies. Then again, in this case I'm not sure it's possible to "fix" Afghanistan. Empires have been unsuccessfully trying to "fix" Afghanistan for centuries. Our hubris convinced us that the US could be different.

I espoused that Afghanistan was best fought as a clandestine war from the beginning and continue to believe that. The damage to our military and national psyche of withdrawing now will be significant though. In the end, the billions we've spent there may have made us safer only temporarily but at what cost?
 
Agree with what's been stated about the relative silence of anti-war activists since 2008. Very hypocritical, and very wrong.

We seem to be accomplishing nothing other than contributing to the national bankruptcy, creating enemies, and making a lot of defense-related contractors fantastically wealthy.
 
Um, McBrett, a handful of SAUDIS with cell phones and box cutters attacked on 911. When are we invading Saudi Arabia? Oh yeah, because just like Saddam in the 80s, and just like the Shah in the 50s, 60s and 70s, and just like Hosni Mubarak for decades, we are in bed with them.

Wake the freak up dude.

Yeah, it only takes a few people to cause a lot of damage, and containing a country or occupying it isnt going to stop a few people from doing anything.....

When will people realize that bankrupting the US and putting us deeper into debt isnt going to stop terrorism???
 
Shiner, we attacked Iraq in 2003 to "liberate" the people there after we had starved them to death with sanctions for 10 years while Saddam feasted on steaks every night during that time period.

After the 91 Gulf war we just up and left and let Saddam squash the uprising that was starting. We had no intention of removing Saddam during the Gulf War. But we did a great job of starving the people of Iraq.
 
Looks like a sergeant has single handily changed the situation over there. Now the U.S. is considering upping its withdraw timeline from 2014.
 
Edit:

Yes Satchel, it WAS the Bush administration, Jr., that is, that said we needed to "liberate" the Iraqi people from Saddam, who Bush Sr. attacked to "save" Kuwait from....

However,

Clinton was in office from 92 to 2000, so actually the majority of the time Iraqis were being starved while Saddam feasted were under a Democrat whitehouse. But that is irrelevant. It doesnt matter who is in office. Both parties suck. And you can just ask Alabama and Mississippi if they have a problem with the status quo. The idiots there just voted for Santorum. Mind numbing.
 

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