UT professor addresses new tribalism

[Crockett]

I enjoy posting here because for the most part it is a relatively civil forum and to one degree or another, most of us gain sharper insight through interaction with other posters.

Facebook is a little different, where I can see diverse viewpoints, but most folks I know only interact with folks who affirm what they are saying. The silos we can build in a digital world contain some danger:

http://articles.philly.com/2016-06-16/news/73798571_1_isis-violence-explosive-mix

 

[Seattle Husker]

This goes to my point about the internet. For all the good it's done it's had the offset of everyone falling into their silos of information that match their world view. In 30 years we may look back on this time as the dark ages of the internet.

 

[bystander]

The promise inherent of the internet is the opportunity to know another culture, different from your own. To gain a greater ration of empathy. Unfortunately it seems it's been hijacked by extremists. It is an alarming revelation of the emotional state of our nation. I feel that hyperbole is seen as a way of making a name for yourself. Words need so much more power than a picture or an eye witness. So we get what we get.

But there are some seriously messed up people out there; not everyone was popular in high school. In some ways I think this is their time. They carry a permanent stain upon their hearts and they want you to know.

 

[Hollandtx]

See, the funny thing is most of my Facebook friends have very different political views than I do. I choose to stay "friends" with these people because I want to always hear and reflect on opinions other than my own.
Unfortunately, it is like the Wild West. If I ever dared to post a reasonable comment against Hillary, for example, I would be hung up and strung! They are currently trampling all over each other to see who can post the most meaningful BLM meme, or link, or doing the Snoopy dance that Hillary has finally been cleared of all those stupid charges. (plus, THEY did it, too)

My real friends aren't on Facebook. We choose to see each other in person--a radical concept for some. However, many of the younger folk are getting the bolus of their news and information from Facebook links, memes, and opinions of other people instead of looking things up themselves.
I do agree that in many ways, we are in the dark ages of the internet.
Younger people don't know how to interact socially, they are more inclined to text v. actually do something, and they are so busy looking at their devices the real world is passing them by.
Now, get off my lawn.

 

[iatrogenic]

"Attitudes of hate and prejudice are not new;"
"in a war of tribes, ISIS has leverage to recruit and inspire those who have no other group to call their own."
"At the very least, the painful events in Orlando should motivate us to reject any advocates of violence, hate, and tribalism in our country today."

 

[Mr. Deez]

The internet does two destructive things for those who allow them. First, it does create ideological echo chambers. If you want to create a world that only reinforces your views, you can do that. Eventually, I think people's minds get closed, and they develop an ideology-driven moral foundation and intellect. If you're a conservative, the liberal isn't just wrong or misguided, he's immoral and stupid. And of course, the same happens the other direction. Eventually, I think this can, for some, turn into violence.

Second, by allowing people to be anonymous when desired and to communicate with others who are too far away to truly embarrass or physically harm them, the internet removes the stigma and fear of not following basic rules of civil decorum. That's why when you look at the comments section of any news article, you'll see a bunch of alleged adults talking like 6th grade bullies.

It happens here too, and I'm guilty to a point. If we were all sitting around a table talking, I wouldn't blunt the positions I'd take, but I'd probably show a higher level of maturity and restraint in my rhetoric and would use less foul language. In short, Is sound more a lawyer and less like a dude drinking a beer with a potty training and therefore diaperless toddler running around. And would one of us tell another one to "shut the **** up?" I doubt it. He wouldn't want the public scorn and wouldn't risk getting his *** kicked by the person.

The bottom line is that I'm glad the internet is here for obvious reasons, one of which is that it can broaden our worldview if we let it. For example, I think I'm a more intelligent person for knowing how a Jewish litigator in New Jersey sees the world. However, it certainly has its downsides as well for those who use it for other purposes.

 

[texas_ex2000]

See, the funny thing is most of my Facebook friends have very different political views than I do. I choose to stay "friends" with these people because I want to always hear and reflect on opinions other than my own.
Unfortunately, it is like the Wild West. If I ever dared to post a reasonable comment against Hillary, for example, I would be hung up and strung! They are currently trampling all over each other to see who can post the most meaningful BLM meme, or link, or doing the Snoopy dance that Hillary has finally been cleared of all those stupid charges. (plus, THEY did it, too)

My real friends aren't on Facebook. We choose to see each other in person--a radical concept for some. However, many of the younger folk are getting the bolus of their news and information from Facebook links, memes, and opinions of other people instead of looking things up themselves.
I do agree that in many ways, we are in the dark ages of the internet.
Younger people don't know how to interact socially, they are more inclined to text v. actually do something, and they are so busy looking at their devices the real world is passing them by.
Now, get off my lawn.

Technology and the internet are hugely net positive. But it makes things so easy that people become spoiled and miss the whole point of living. Newsflash - it's not the Ends, it's the Means (not so subtle political jab).

Before, to get from A to B required mastering a clutch and a stick and a paper map. That evolved into automatic transmissions and mapquest to Uber. It doesn't require anything of us and give us more time to be on social media. It's not just people taking for granted what it takes to go across the city, it's the loss of certain skills and art that humams needed to master.

Intercontinental travel is so easy and affordable today. Before, for most people you had to save up your whole life to maybe make 1 trip to Europe if you were lucky. I'm not saying the "cultural" (aka drinking/eating/selfies) experience isn't worth it today, but it required more of somebody in the past to make that trip. And when you made that trip, you had to master your complex wet film SLR or rangefinder camera if you wanted photos to cherish after it was all over. And because you could only carry so much film, you didn't waste it on potentially lethal selfie shots. It required people to think about what they were doing, evaluate the merit and value of using this one frame, and the experience and discipline to develop the skill to operate the camera to execute the shot.

Before social media and online streaming comedy shows, people got their news from reading newspapers. Instead of clicking on a link you had to read 2,000 word articles on paper. Before blogs and facebook posts, to write about news you had to be a professional writer or journalist. That meant years of hard work perfecting the difficult craft of writing and becoming a knowlegable expert about the area/topic you're covering. News organizations had to vet your competence. Not so today, any idiot can get their audience on social media and comment.

The idea of what a friend meant/was in the past is very different from today. A real friend in the past was someone you talked with/wrote letters to. That takes a lot of effort, so you're really invested. Since it's an investment, you were selective about who you called your friend. Real friendship were sealed with an unspoken pledge of "if you need anything, you can count on me." Dating....Now, since it so easy to find or define yourself as "friends" on social media, friendship and dating today is about "what can you do for me?" If the answer isn't immediately exciting or compelling, I'll just swipe on someone else. Easy.

In other words, Life and our humanity isn't about stuff, outcomes, or getting what we want. Young people truly don't understand this.

It's about "why would you ever support this policy? it makes this so much harder?" or "BREXIT ruined my life, I can't study for free in Prague under the EU anymore." And more disturbingly, "Pigs in blanket, let em fry" or "Obama is a Muslim."

 

[bystander]

One thing that I believe is a common experience to us all; the fighting on internet is so pointless. I have frequented a political forum for years similar to my time here. And NOBODY has changed their philosophy. NOBODY. They come to the table ready to defend a position that has been deemed inerrant and argue in a Machiavellian manner of winning the argument no matter the truth or previously contradictory positions. They will express outrage over a moral failing on the opposite side and will downplay the same moral failing on their side. It is frustrating and disheartening.

I have crossed some bridges because of Facebook though. I have made the acquaintance of a young black woman who works at a restaurant I frequent. We friended each other and we have communicated privately and read/commented on each others posts. It has been very interesting because she is tall, black as I said and has an afro that won't quit. Sometimes she wears a head-dress similar to Erykah Badu. In fact, that is what she looks like. And let me tell you, she is ALL IN on BLM. ALL IN. But she is also a human being and has confided doubts and fatigue. She has problems with her sister. She doesn't make a lot of money. But she is fiercely passionate and prideful. And she is unlike any white person that I know. Her race is real and so is the history. She believes blacks are being targeted by the police. I don't know that she will ever think differently. But I have to admit, talking to her face to face as Mr. Deez alluded does make things different. I do feel her pain. I have a softened view of what is happening. I realize how complicated it is and how I do not have the answers.

Last night I was talking on FB to a very Conservative college buddy of mine who is anti-Obama. He of course thinks Obama has blood on his hands. Here is what I said to him:

"My personal opinion is that Obama is highly but clinically intelligent; but he is being influenced by legacy issues by more aggressive and emotional leaders such as Sharpton Lynch and Holder. He is showing a degree of naivety in his rhetoric. I believe he is personally shocked by what happened in Dallas and this whole thing is getting away from him. He is pathologically ambitious though like most politicians and will err on the side of supporting his constituency."

My other friend ("Erykah Badu") posted the following just underneath my comment:

"Thank you mark. simply because you understand"

When I got the notice that she had posted on my thread I was a little nervous because I thought maybe she would be upset about my comment. But she has read many other things I've said and I think she knows me now; she knows my assessment above of Obama is an attack. It's an analysis of a human being. It may not be correct but I think she showed the capacity to back up and understand the forces that bear down upon us all. That's all I was trying to say and by knowing her and talking to her over time I have been able to find a place where we can discuss things with trust knowing neither of us are waiting for that "I GOT YOU" moment. We are far beyond that. I value this greatly and will not allow her more militant side to bother me. But she knows I believe that the rhetoric can inflame the crazy's. She knows that what happened in Dallas was wrong and set the movement back.

Sorry for the ramble, but in closing I told her that I liked the character Jade (played by Spike Lee's sister) from "Do The Right Thing." Jade told 'Buggin Out' that she wanted to do something positive for the community though she was down with the problems. Unspoken was the happy look that she gave me because I'd taken the time to watch the movie (several times actually; I think it is very interesting because stereotypes about the black community are dealt with; good and bad). I was "listening," you know?

CODA: This morning she has posted pictures of demonstrators in London in support of BLM. She closed her comment with this:

"Every small act of action equals a lot of must needed peace. Somehow we know.... "We gon' be alright"

 

[Mr. Deez]

Interesting.

 

[ProdigalHorn]

The internet does two destructive things for those who allow them.

I think it does a third thing: it localizes global events. We now feel compelled to turn everything into a "trend." When a shooting takes place, the first impulse is to talk about it in terms of the national scope - because that's how to get viewers or readers. The networks have been doing this in broadcast news for a while, but now the Internet speeds that up. I never would have read about an isolated shooting incident across the country 10 years ago. Now it's blasted across every news feed I see.

That means that if six people in a year are killed under suspicious circumstances, I'm being outraged about it every two months. I'm convinced it happens all the time. But my reactions for the most part have no impact on where those events actually took place. So I live in Dallas, I read about something in Minnesota, and I shoot cops in my hometown - cops who had nothing to do with the incident, are actually trying to help and do things the right way.

That in turn makes us generalize even more. We assume cops there are like cops here. Protesters there are like protesters there. And in some cases, it informs how I "ought" to react wherever I am, even if it's not appropriate.

So now, things that at one time might have simply been local incidents are blown into national debates with ramifications all through society. Cops in Plano are more on edge because some protesters in Detroit called for dead cops. Black kids in middle class neighborhoods are convinced that cops are patrolling and looking for an excuse to kill them because of a bad shooting in New Orleans.

Thanks, Internet.

 

[NJlonghorn]

Interesting.

Wow, that's really cool. I spent way too much time looking at it, and I'm sure I'll be back for more, lol.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Interesting.

Talk about a dramatic echo chamber. No wonder some of ya'll are so scared. If I lived in the Conservative echo chamber I'd be convinced the sky really is falling. The liberal echo chamber isn't any better. What I found laughable is how the moment one site or personality picked up a "See, our side is right" article, the others quickly followed suit. The sites are all competing for the same eyeballs.

Does anyone else try to mess with the Facebook algorithm? I've purposely liked some rightwing blogs just to ensure I get a mix of liberal and conservative slanted news. Of course, I visit Facebook maybe once a week and never go directly to the liberal/conservative blogs.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Interesting.

I showed this to my wife who teaches 8th grade philosophy. They teach critical review of the source and bias of the content that you are reading. She's already planning to incorporate this into a lesson.

Sadly, I don't think people realize how deep in the echo chamber they really are. While people believe they are consuming a greater variety of news sources in the digital age, companies like Facebook, Flipboard, Twitter, Instragram, etc. are tailoring the feeds to each of our particular interests to keep us coming back more often. It's a good business model for them but it's greatly contributing to the insulation we have inside our own belief system cocoon.

 

[iatrogenic]

They teach critical review of the source

Ohh, the irony....