Unemployment insurance run out? Try Disability.

Musburger

500+ Posts
Interesting article in Zero Hedge today.Link.

It seems roughly a quarter of the people whose unemployment benefits expire move on to disability payments. They are no longer counted as unemployed which results in a drop in the unemployment rate, but they continue receiving benefits.

Excerpts below.

But how does one survive after losing the unemployment benefits? Clearly people struggle. One way to pay the bills however is to file for and receive the federal disability benefits - assuming of course one has a disability. Interestingly enough, the Great Recession and the slow recovery somehow generated many more disability recipients.

JPMorgan: As of January over 8.5 million individuals were receiving federal disability payments (an additional 2 million spouses and children of disabled workers also received disability payments). Since the onset of the recession and the subsequent slow recovery, this figure has accelerated and grown faster than the overall size of the potential labor force— currently 5.3% of the population aged 25-64 is on federal disability, up from 4.5% when the recession began.

The Sober report then goes on to look at the makeup and maladies of those going on disability:

JPMorgan points out that increases in the number of disability benefits recipients account for about a quarter of the decline in employment participation. Furthermore during recessions the number of new disability claims actually increases, even though the number of jobs with higher injury incidence (such as construction) generally declines. Try explaining that one... Half of the benefit recipients suffer from "mental disorders" and "musculoskeletal disorders" (such as back pain). "Mood disorders" alone account for over 10% of this group. And once someone starts receiving these benefits, it's almost impossible to take the off the program. In 2011 only 1% of the recipients lost their benefits because they were no longer deemed disabled. So how much is this program costing the US taxpayer? Apparently quite a bit.

JPMorgan: The cost to the federal budget of these programs has escalated along with the number of claimants, and now runs around $200 billion per year—more than the budgets of the Departments of Commerce, Energy, Homeland Security, Interior, Justice, and State combined.

Thus a quarter of people who drop out of the workforce and come off the unemployment benefits, simply move to receiving disability payments. And most stay there until they roll into the social security program when they retire - from their disability. The same source, a different program.

Autor attributes disability's expansion mainly to liberalized, more subjective eligibility rules and to a deteriorating job market for less-educated workers. Through the 1970s, strokes, heart attacks and cancer were major causes. Now, mental problems (depression, personality disorder) and musculoskeletal ailments (back pain, joint stress) dominate (54 percent of awards in 2009, nearly double 1981's 28 percent). The paradox is plain. As physically grueling construction and factory jobs have shrunk, disability awards have gone up.

For many recipients, the disability program is a form of long-term unemployment insurance, argue Autor and his frequent collaborator Mark Duggan of the University of Pennsylvania. Benefit applications surge when joblessness rises. From 2001 to 2010, annual applications jumped 123 percent to 2.9 million. On average, recipients start receiving payments at age 49 and keep them until 66, when they switch to Social Security's retiree benefits.

Superficially, the case for overhaul seems overwhelming. Tougher eligibility standards would protect the genuinely disabled but limit benefits for others. Don't hold your breath. For starters, any crackdown could become a public-relations disaster. It might seem gratuitously cruel. Many recipients command sympathy. With low skills, their jobs prospects are poor. "People are driven into the program by desperation," says Autor. Nor are they rolling in money; the average payment is about $14,000 a year.

Lawyers would also resist big changes. The Social Security Administration initially rejects about two-thirds of applications, but about half of these are appealed by lawyers and other professional advocates before administrative law judges, where the approval rate is between 60 percent and 75 percent. In a series of well-reported stories, The Wall Street Journal's Damian Paletta showed that the system is open to abuse. But it's also lucrative. Lawyers and other advocates are entitled to 25 percent of back benefits up to $6,000 per case. Their total payments approach $1.5 billion annually.

The larger budget quagmire now comes into focus. What the federal government does is so vast that it suffocates informed debate and political control. The built-in bias for the status quo reflects the reality that the various parts of government are understood, defended and changed mainly by those who benefit from their existence. However strong the case for revision (and it is powerful here), it is tempered by political inertia. What's sacrificed is the broader public good. The quagmire is of our own making.

Note: Doing the math, the article states roughly $200 billion dollars are spent a year now on disability payments at an average of $14,000/person. $200 billion divided by $14,000 is approximately 14.3 million people on disability. That's like what, the population of Ohio? The article states 8.5 million plus another 2 million children & spouses which totals 10.5 million. My calculation of 14 million doesn't jibe with the stated number of 10.5 million, but regardless, it's huge.
 
GTT
NO NO No not headaches
depression yea that is the ticket

and makes a mockery of real people who suffer.

btw i doubt the wives and children get as much as the recipient
so that means administering the program is even more than your calculation
 
If a larger percentage of those who initially apply for Social Security disability get approved it may be a good thing. Sometimes it seems the people who conduct the first level hearings must either be completely stupid or as a matter of principle turn down everyone. I remember when Barney Clark, the first artificial heart receipient was attached to a machine so he could live. He received a telephone call from Ronald Reagan, who wanted to give him some encouragement. Finally, the genial Republican asked Clark if there is anything he could do for him. Clark, a dentist, asked the president for help with getting his Social Security disability. Though attached to a machine he had been turned down on his initial application and was about to go into an expensive appeals process. I've personally known some people that seemed not to be so disabled who received the benefits, but I've also known people so physically crippled they couldn't even sit up straight for four hours at a stretch turned down.
 
Crockett
absolutely
Real qualified people who need it shoudl get it
that is not waht this thread is about. it is about the rise in people getting SSI who don't qualify. Back aches and mental problems are the easiest to claim and the hardest to verify

Fakers make it hard for genuinely needy people
 
My mother-in-law has, no doubt, already gone this route. We took her in this past Fall so that she could get back on her feet. She spent 3 months sitting on her *** and collecting unemployment. Luckily my wife saw it for what it was and hinted that she needed to leave. She left while we were in Texas during Christmas - thank God.

Nevertheless, it was complete and utter b.s. that she had the ability to collect money for doing NOTHING. I felt like I was paying for her twice. Once by taking her in and once in terms of taxes that I pay to support trash like this.

BTW, my pregnant wife and I both work two jobs and she couldn't muster up enough "strength" to work one, part-time job.

/rant over
 
I've handled a couple of veteran's claims and three ss claims. All of them got turned down at first, one vet for about ten years. All of them were really genuinely messed up and only one of those, a vet, was a mental. The suffering they went through while deprived of the benefits was enough to drive Job to suicide. One of them tried that route several times.

The vet who was kept waiting ten years died a few years later of the malady he suffered from and allegedly didn't have those ten years. They had categorized his wife as his enabler.

I suppose there are some malingerers out there but I haven't run into them. And I have run into a lot of people who were denied and quit trying and just suffered along.

I've never made any money representing these people, I did it pro bono.

My point is that most of us don't get exposed to people who are horribly screwed up and so we assume there are a lot of malingerers. Politicians with bs anecdotes are responsible for some of that.

I was visiting with a lady last year who I thought was a malingerer, she had every symptom known to man and her daughter was collecting unemployment, her grandkid never seemed to be at school and she had a sister living with her who was clearly disabled. I thought she was just faking or exaggerating or just a mental. The third time I visited her she had her shoes off and her feet looked like crab legs she was so arthritic. She was still working 20 hours a week in that condition. I asked her how long she had had the crab leg feet and she said it started when she was in her forties, about fifteen years ago.

If she got laid off because she was not very useful and collected unemployment and then moved on to disability, would she be a JPMorgan stat?

I realize my stories are just anecdotal, but there are lots of these really pathetic people out there.

Our system is terribly expensive and us healthy folks get to pay the freight but the amount of suffering that is going on is extreme. I am sure the folks at JPMorgan and the Wall Street Journal encounter people like this all the time in their lives.
yippee.gif
 
i think the point of the article is the statistical abnormality of the recent rise in disability claims. Disability claims should, by and large, stay at a pretty even pace. They might go up in times of a very good economy but they should never go up in a bad economy because less people are actually working.

I have no doubt that the govt sucks at administering the program (why people admit this and then want more govt involvement in things like healthcare is lunacy). But, the article seems to show that thee system is so bad that people are gaming it. I would be willing to bet every dollar I have that the percentage of malingerers on federal disability is vastly greater than the percentage of malingerers on private disability. No one really cares about the money on the fed side.
 
There isn't a system out there that involves $$$ that someone isn't trying to game. It's not a surprise that enrollment is up when people are getting desperate. Yesterday I heard that 6.8% of mortgage holders are behind on their payments. If you're out of a job ready in danger of losing your house that might push normal people to take desperate measures.

This isn't a black/white situation. Many conservatives see this as a bunch of free loaders...liberals see this as desperate people in need of assistant. Not every situation is the same and likely both groups are right...and wrong.

My Mother-in-law gets SS Disability for a "weakened heart". She does not have a pacemaker though that has been discussed. She is a retired teacher getting pension income from a state that employed her for 30 years. My MIL started receiving disability between 55-58yrs of age. She now substitute teaches EVERY day in a different state to avoid reducing her pension benefits. The woman didn't need to collect disability for any reason other than owning several over-leveraged properties in 2 states. She loves to work and will likely work until she dies but in this case took disability simply because she qualified. I love her but am not proud of that action.

Still, there are likely many people that COULD have qualified for disability and chose not to take it until they had no other option.

I don't know the details on disability but it's my understanding that they'll get less benefits later as they are borrowing on their SS funds now.
 
Based on the estimate of fraud in other entitlement programs I'd guess the fraud here runs pretty high.
How else do you explain the increase of claims by 2 ' maladies" like back claim and metal stress on such an increase.

I know only 2 people that I know have scammed and worked the gov't to get SSI. REally it is a nice package and no wok unless you want to do it on the side
 
I'm definitely not condoning these folks that are gaming the system, but isn't it just a little ironic that JPM is commenting in this article on this subject. Wow, if that's the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is!
 
I have a personal injury legal practice, and I see hundreds of real-life scenarios play out. I can tell you for an absolute fact that MOST of the people on social security disability are fakers, exaggerators and mental weirdos.

What's really frustrating is when we go prove to a jury without any doubt that these people are lying and faking,(some proven to be selling their pain meds on the open market), and so the jury pours out their personal injury case, but the federal government keeps that check going for the rest of their lives.

Then, too, they can work for cash whenever they want some extra money.

The whole thing burns me.
 
As i read the posts above, my worst fears are realized. I am ashamed to say that I have been on disability for 4 years now. I have an auto-immune disease that makes it impossible for me to work. I would work part time but my condition is quite unpredictable and my options are non-existent.

I qualified on my own, without an attorney on the first try after my company told me to file. I would have never thought to do it myself, in my world, only lazy people who "worked the system" were on any type of government support. I started babysitting when I was 12, worked every summer when I turned 16 and got a full-time job after I finished up at UT. I also interned my Jr. and Sr. years. The point is, I have always worked and actually enjoy it.

Now, on top of feeling crummy most days, my previous life has been totally taken away from me. I was extremely active and social--ran marathons (including Boston) triathlons (including an Ironman) was involved in my community, church and work. Now my life is pretty lonely and one of mostly isolation. While my friends are at work, I am home alone. When they are out or doing activities, I am usually unable to go, I also had to adjust to having my income reduced by about 2/3.

The cherry on top is the shame I feel at being on disability. I know there are many out there that cheat the system...but please try to remember those that really need it and would do anything to regain their health and work again. I just returned from the Mayo Clinic in an effort to uncover any other existing conditions and/or treatments, but there was nothing new to suggest. I just want my life back.

I agree that it is horrible that people would fake an injury/illness because they can't or won't find a job...I just hate that it makes my situation more embarrassing.
 
I understand where you are coming from. It sucks for people with real disabilities. I have a cousin with Lupus who feels the same way.
 
bedhead
We likely can't understand how you feel and in a strange way how you feel is a testament to your good character.

Remember you paid into SS all the years you did work.

And that safety net exists for you , who really need it not for the fakes.If I could take away the money from any of those who scam our system I would give it to you who are deserving.

I wish there was something we could say .
 
Bedhead, and others on legitimate disability status:

My aggravation is obviously not aimed at you; instead, my heart goes out to you.

As you say, under your circumstances, you are just as upset as I am at people who pretend not to be able to work and thus drain the system of resources and create doubt in everyone's minds about the validity of disability claims. I do apologize if my attitude seemed insensitive as applied to your situation, but actually it was not directed to you.

I am also sending you a PM.
 
bedhead,

There is nothing for you to be ashamed of. Like I said, the number of malingerers is significant but a small minority. That means the majority are people who have been afflicted with objective and truly debilitating injuries and/or illnesses. These people (like you) worked and paid taxes to support the system, and now that you're unfortunate enough to be afflicted, it's only fair that the system be available to support you. I hope eventually researchers find a cure or a way to help your symptoms. In the meantime, I hope you are able to find at least some activities that you are able to do that are enjoyable and rewarding.
 

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