Trade Deal Politics

Mr. Deez

Beer Prophet
What is going on with the pending trade legislation and the adoption of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) is fascinating and nauseating all at the same time. We're pitching this legislation under the guise of "free trade," but we're doing it with a bunch of countries we already trade with heavily. If there were major trade barriers in place, then how have we traded with these nations so heavily for so long? And if that's all that's involved, then why does the deal need to be secret? Why do we need to "pass [it] to find out what's in it?" (I'm actually referring to the fast track authority, not the terms of the deal, which we won't see until it's already negotiated in secret and on the floors of Congress.)

First, if you're a Republican, you've spent the last 6 years demonizing this President as having no character, no judgment, no patriotism or national loyalty, and terrible policies. Basically, he has been Satan to you. If that's the case, then why the hell would you trust him with fast track authority? For the GOP to be willing to set aside all partisan and policy differences like they never existed and give Obama fast track authority, the amount of money that must be getting thrown around on Capitol Hill must be astounding. Somebody who's super rich must be breaking serious balls to no end. If you're a Republican and support this deal, you're nothing but a dishonest *****.

Second, a pitch has been made to Democrats in the form of "trade adjustment assistance" that's supposed to take Medicare funds to provide assistance to people who lose their jobs because of the trade deals that will come. The idea isn't playing well with Democrats. I wonder why. Maybe they don't like Medicare being cut or made less solvent to dole out welfare to people who shouldn't be losing their jobs in the first place. Maybe if we're already anticipating that the trade deals will result in job losses, these Democrats might be questioning the wisdom of these deals. Whatever, the reason, I think they've got good reason to be concerned.

Third, if there's no funny business going on, then why are we getting a dodge from the Administration, and why is Congress being asked to suspend its normal rules of debate and amendment (through granting fast track authority)? Paul Krugman (Yes, Paul Krugman) wrote a good piece on this. It's a few weeks old, but it's still applicable, and he even explains how a lot of this crap doesn't have anything to do with trade rules as most people think of them (like tariffs, quotas, etc.). It's a good piece - even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

And from the more humorous end of this debate, look who's showing "real leadership" on this issue. Rick Perry has done a complete 180 on the issue in just one month and now says he doesn't trust Obama to negotiate a deal. What facts have changed in the last month that would warrant or justify a change of position? Absolutely none. The only thing that has changed is that it has occurred to him that Republican primary voters don't want Obama to be given any authority. (Big shock.) I'm glad he is coming around to the right side (albeit for the wrong reasons), but what a f*ckin' hack. And we elected this stooge as our Governor how many times? I've lost count. All I know is that when he became Governor, not only did I not own a cell phone, I still had an answering machine with a tape in it. Pathetic.
 
I was in HS driving a pretty awesome camaro and drinking cheap beer when he took over a governor. I was in my 30's when he was finally done.

I don't know much about this legislation (who does at this point) but the way it is being handled is sending up all types or red flags. The national union connected to the teacher org I belong to pretty much never sends emails to us but they have been blowing us up over this one. In general, if I know that I'm not playing with all of the information, I am against it until I know. I will always assume that the part being hidden would be unpopular or else it would be out there.
 
I was in HS driving a pretty awesome camaro and drinking cheap beer when he took over a governor. I was in my 30's when he was finally done.

I forget how young you are. The entirety of my high school years were during Ann Richards' tenure. I didn't have a car, but I was already drinking good beer.

In general, if I know that I'm not playing with all of the information, I am against it until I know. I will always assume that the part being hidden would be unpopular or else it would be out there.

That's a good default rule to have. If it's secret, it's usually for a reason, and that reason is almost always nefarious.
 
has anyone asked Ryan about the have to pass it to see it BS? Was he clowning Pelosi or just joking or was he serious? WTF? Maybe laws/bills should be reduced to 1000 words or less unless they are given 10 business days for the public to read before being eligible to be voted on by the X(pick House or Senate)?
 
Additional corporate money will be passed around the next week or so until enough house members are bought off to get the deal through. It amazes me that America has fallen so far that the government not only passes legislation in secret, but also requires that the people's representatives be prohibited from informing the public what the legislation entails.
 
has anyone asked Ryan about the have to pass it to see it BS? Was he clowning Pelosi or just joking or was he serious? WTF? Maybe laws/bills should be reduced to 1000 words or less unless they are given 10 business days for the public to read before being eligible to be voted on by the X(pick House or Senate)?

I think he was serious. Surely he had to realize how dumb that sounded.
 
David Frum write an interesting piece that is indicative of why the free traders are losing the debate. He thinks that the public is becoming hostile to free trade, because the benefits of it are not perceived as being shared by the public at large. In other words, he adopts the Left's view (or at least the public's acceptance of it) that class envy (or income inequality if you don't like the more politically charged vebiage) is driving the opposition.

I don't necessarily think he's wrong, but I think there's more too it that he's not recognizing. The people who think free trade mostly benefits a narrow class of rich people at the expense of American workers (mainly unions) have always opposed free trade, and they've usually lost in the end even during periods when unions had a lot more clout. See NAFTA and GATT back in the '90s. Typically Republican lawmakers would team up with pro-business Democrats and push through the appropriate legislation over the pro-labor Democrats, regardless of who was in the White House, and they could do it even when Democrats controlled Congress.

What I think has really changed is that many people who are philosophically pro-free trade don't accept the assumption that these trade deals actually constitute free trade. They see the trade deals negotiated in secret. They see Congress ceding its constitutional power to amend or filibuster the appropriate legislation. And when they see the deals actually presented, they're thousands of pages long, which means nobody's reading them, which means that special interests are running wild and likely screwing the public. Finally, they see their own government yielding its sovereignty to global tribunals (such as the World Trade Organizations) that have weak accountability and may or may not be hostile to the United States.

If we're really talking about free trade (meaning the multilateral reduction or elimination of tariffs, quotas, and other trade regulations), then why does all that horse crap have to happen? Why do the deals have to be longer than a New York City phone book? Does it really take that many words to adopt a free trade agreement, or is it carving out special deals for favored business interests in the US and abroad that have bought off the right people? The bottom line is that the politicians are giving the public a hell of a lot to be suspicious about.
 
Not to be outdone by Rick Perry, HRC has decided to go against what her husband did as president and throw Obama under the bus - after the **** hit the fan on the issue. Of course, she didn't have the balls to actually show some leadership on the issue when it mattered.
 
Hrc knows that every time she takes a stance on an issue her numbers take a dip, so she tries not to. Now it looks like the cat is out of the bag on that one and her opponents can really force her to take a stance. Sanders had been blowing her up about it all last week and actually saw his number go up.
 
Not having to vote, Hillary can pretend to be against the deal (even though she supports it in actuality as she is beholden to its corporate sponsors) which aligns with public opinion.
 
MrD presents my and most people I have spoken with view quite correctly;
"What I think has really changed is that many people who are philosophically pro-free trade don't accept the assumption that these trade deals actually constitute free trade. They see the trade deals negotiated in secret"


It for sure isn't that I have a clue on the deal. It is that anytime anything is worked in secret, by any government but especially by this
gov't people now know to beware.
Bring it into the open , explain the positives and ramifications and let everyone see and decide.
 
Yea, **** "you have to pass it" to read it or know what is in it. Seriously. If it can't stand the scrutiny then it shouldn't be passed.
 
I think the statistics show that free trade does not follow the "rising tide raises all boats" theory. There is an lower-class problem that is growing. As someone not in that class, my initial thought is that they should expect to retrain/re-educate themselves. I'm certainly raising my sons to be knowledge workers. With that said, these deals are written by business elite and corporate lobbyists. There is NOTHING in these deals to support the middle-class and down.

Like everyone, we should put some sunlight on these deals then let them pass/fail on their merit. The only people that don't want transparency are the lobbyists and the politicians beholden to them. I'm so disappointed by the Obama Admin on this issue.
 
I'm so disappointed by the Obama Admin on this issue.

It's fair enough to be disappointed, but you shouldn't be surprised. Every President likes having fast track authority. Furthermore, the business interests who benefit from these deals throw so much money on both parties' presidential nominees that they don't really care who wins elections. They own the Presidency. That's why the GOP doesn't mind empowering Obama to make the deals. They know he's bought just they are and that he'll carry the big business' agenda.
 

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