The Walmart Model for the US Economy

Musburger

500+ Posts
Since it is the nations largest private employer, I'm choosing Walmart to represent the corporate model for mass corporate employers of low-skilled workers. What I say about Walmart could apply to Target, Home Depot, etc.First, a few facts.

Walmart employs some 2.2 million people, of which 1.4 million work in the US. Walmart employs approximately 1% of the US work force.
The average Walmart sales associate makes $8.81 an hour.
2011 profits were $15.7 billion.

Now, the common arguments we've all heard many times.


Walmart is an example of how free enterprise works. Thanks to the Walton's millions of Americans have jobs. The Walton's are billionaires, and pay far more in federal taxes than thousands of Americans combined. Their stores allow millions of customers to save money by paying lower prices, hence they are economically better off than they would otherwise be.

To borrow a line from Lee Corso, not so fast my friend.


On the rare occasions I've shopped at Walmart, I've noticed that the majority of employees are adults beyond the age of a typical college student. That may not be true everywhere, and it may be an erroneous observation, so I'm going to say the employees at Walmart that fall into the category of non-student, working adult, range anywhere from 30%-60%.

As an IRS employee, I am familiar with refundable credits, particularly EIC and the Additional Child Tax Credit. Pay attention.

Like other employers (due to Obamacare), Walmart is shifting more to a part-time work model for their associates. Using $10/hour as the base wage, the typical worker might work 30 hours per week which corresponds to roughly $15,000 per year in wages paid by Walmart. If that worker has 2 or more dependents, they would qualify for around $5,500 in EIC when tax season rolls around. If the dependents are under 17 years of age, they would qualify for another $1,800 or so of the Additional Child Tax Credit. Both of these credits are based on wages paid. In other words, the employee who is compensated $15,000 by Walmart might be compensated another $7,000+ courtesy of the US taxpayer. So almost 1/3rd of the income received by the employee is paid by the US tax payer. This is basically a subsidy to Walmart.

Assuming just 30% of the Walmart work force meets this criteria (dependents claimed on return) we're talking about 1.4 million x 30% x $7,000 = $2.94 billion. If 60% of the work force falls into this category, you can double that to almost $6 billion. So basically, $3-$6 billion is being transferred from the tax paying public every year to Walmart's coffers to act a subsidy to them. Looking at it another way, if 60% of the Walmart employees are compensated by the taxpayer and provide 1/3rd of their income, then 20% of the compensation paid out to Walmart employees comes from the general public. You might say that 1/5th of the Walmart employees work for the government.

The way I look at it, the millions and perhaps billions of taxes paid by the Walton family in taxes, is basically transfer payments from the taxpaying public to Walmart. The Waltons use our tax money to enrich themselves, and then pay taxes, some of which then flows back to their employees.

Suppose for a minute that the tax code changed to eliminate the refundable credits. I would suppose that many of the adults who have dependents would quit working there ($15,000 no longer cuts it without subsidies of some sort). I would think we are talking about a few hundred thousand (if you include Target and other low-skilled employers we're talking about a few million). There is a large number of youth who would be willing to take there places at $10/hour, but probably not enough to fill the void, and Walmart would raise prices a little and raise wages some what. Is it worth paying lower prices to shop at Walmart (and places like that) when the "savings" are basically an entry on the national debt (We really aren't paying for all of these subsidies yet, as some 40% of it is added to the national debt and to be paid by later generations with interest).

It's hard to say exactly what all the positive and negative ramifications would be. But one thing is clear, at least to me. The current model is far from free enterprise. We have a state assisted crony-capitalist system where the super wealthy and the poor benefit off the backs of everyone else and this model is steadily breaking down. The population is now dependent on deficits and propaganda is being used to disguise what is no longer anything close to a capitalist, free-market system. I wish I had some answers. Any suggestions?
 
As I've said for years, these programs for the working poor are scams. All they are is corporate welfare for companies like Wal-Mart.
 
I know I've personally asked myself in hard times is it time to find a 2nd job? When did people stop getting second jobs? Not every job should be a full time job and not every job should be able to support a family of 4. If someone is working for $10 an hour and working 30 hours a week thus $15,000 per year would the job being full time be that much better? Can you support a family of 4 on $20,000 per year? Is Wal-Mart supposed to pay some uneducated floor guy or a checker or a stock boy $20 per hour? What is the ultimate goal? What is it that Wal-Mart should be doing?

It is easy to say they should offer all of their employees a full time job and benefits. It is easy to say that they should pay a larger wage. I don't know that this is really the answer as I asked above is making $20,000 instead of $15,000 going to make the difference? is it the benefits that make all the difference?


What I do know is that many of the mom and pops of yester=year didn't offer insurance (nor do they or could they today). They probably weren't paying $10 per hour (or the equivalent back in the day).

Thus what is that we really want?
 
The conversation relates to globalization; trade pacts which opened foreign labor markets to US multinational corporations (like Walmart). The end result has been greater corporate profits, higher executive pay, and downward pressure on wages. While consumers enjoy lower prices, this is countered by increases in government deficits in the form of subsidies needed to offset the loss of income from wages.
 
Musberger thanks for your response. I do like the Costco model and personally I think it is working for them. As someone who stepped foot in Costco and Sam's (Sam's for the first time in years) I felt like Sam's had made a major upgrade to look and feel much more like Costco than it had in the past. That being said that article is using CostCo as an example for an increase in the minimum wage, or so it seemed? Seems to me that is an example of how a business can be run without government intervention.

Mr. Deez, I wasn't side stepping the issue I was asking questions that I feel need to be asked and answered. I do think there are some philosophical differences that lead to different answers. I don't feel like Sam's is doing anything wrong and I don't feel that they should be forced to change to a model similar to CostCo. I do think if I was employed at Sam's I would do what I could to move over to be an employee at CostCo. Therefore CostCo most likely has not just happier workers but better workers. If I couldn't make that happen I feel like I would be looking for a different job or another job to supplement. I don't feel it is the governments place to force that change.

You say it is a subsidy to Wal-mart, and I'm asking you why is it on Wal-mart and not on the worker to go get a second job for 20/30/40 hours a week? Growing up I had several friends whose fathers had second or weekend jobs. Now I don't know anyone who does that.
 
Musburger, do you believe that decisions on how much to pay people is influenced by the EIC?
 
my answer to the OP is to get rid of the refudable tax cedits. I have been against those since I learned of them a couple of years ago. nobody should get back a refund over what they paid.
 
just thinking about the minimum wage. if you make the current federal minimum wage of $7.25/ hour you are making $15,080 per year. that is less than 133% of the federal poverty level. if you have 1 dependant you are less than 100% of the federal poverty level. that is looking at 2013 levels.

if the average wal-mart worker makes $8.81/ hour then they are making $18,325 per year if they work 40 hours per week. that is less than then poverty level if they have 2 dependents, and less than 133% of the poverty level with 1 dependent.

this to me is the reason we need to raise the minimum wage again. i wouls suggest raising it to $10/ hour as that comes out to $20,800 per year. that means they would make more than 150% of the poverty level, and if they would have to have 3 dependents in order to fall below the poverty level.
 
Will that increase in minimum wage translate to less of a tax burden off the middle and middle upper class? Will it translate to Wal-Mart not benefiting off their crony government employee subsidies?

I've got a bad feeling it wouldn't do either but I see where you are trying to get.
 
Has there been some research on how long an employee stays at the lowest level for a pay raise?
how often does an employee get raises?
what are the opportunities for advancement?

does Wal mart offer training for its employees so they can advance?


I remember that Mcdonald's employee who confronted the CEO and complained she had worked at MCD for 10 years but was still only making $8.81,
That seemed hard to believe and it turns out it is.
I am guessing Walmart has the same structure but for McD it is impossible to be employed, show up for work but NOT get a raise for 10 years.
McD's offers many training programs geared to help an employee advance if they want to put in the work.

back to Walmart. is it possible that many people like the idea of coming and going as a Wal mart employee knowing the taxpayer will help them?

if any of you have ever dealt with lots of low skill employees you know that it is easy to pick out the ones who will be your go to people and those people will be offered help and advancement. You also know how easy it is to identify the slackers and you learn quickly not to depend on them to even show up
How much are the slackers worth a hour?
 

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