The Gay Brain - Updated

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EasternHorn

500+ Posts
CNN has posted an interesting article from Time Magazine about how a portion of the brain in gay males is more similar to straight women than to straight men. What makes the most sense to me is that, if these findings are correct, it explains why some gay men are more effiminate than others. It also explains why most gay men have at least some interests (outside of sex) that seem to be more feminine.

I have no idea if the findings are corrrect, but it puts a different perspective on the question of people being born gay. My interpretation of the article would be that you are born gay but not necessarily because of a gay gene.

Link

Here is another, more informative, story on this subject which also includes a link to the actual study:

another link
 
EasternHorn,
If you are interested in looking more into the biological factors that may or may not play a part in homosexuality may I recommend "Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth" by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover. It is a very interesting read.
Also, there does appear to be biological factors that at least contribute to homosexuality, even though there is still to date no evidene of a genetic cause.
One last thing, when I was doing some research on this from about 2000-2002 (theological research mainly NOT medical) I ran across a study talking about the differences in brains between straight and gay men. A problem I found with the study was that the brains were taken post motem. Nothing wrong with that except the fact that over the course of our lives differences can occur. There could be asked, so did beng homosexual cause the brain changes or did the brain changes cause the homosexuality? These facts seem to not really answer any questions related to that, but does not that the differences at least at the end of life are there.
 
Once again. Whether or not they are predisposed to be gay or whether there is a gay gene is irrelevant to the morality of homosexual activity. We can leave that for another discussion.

However, lets say people who drink & drive are all predisposed to be good fathers. Still doesn't rule out that drinking & driving is wrong.
 
Yes, Brulee.... let us biforcate the private and public spheres of life.......

(pure sarcasm there, as I love when people propose the dead ideas of modernity, cracks me up)
 
THEU, how could homosexuality cause changes in brain structure? I don't understand the mechanism you seem to be proposing.
 
1. I have not seen a peer-reviewed article on this study yet, thus it is nothing but rumor to me (journal not mentioned at Time, and Pubmed search of "homosexual brain" did not turn it up).

2. In a definitional sense, homosexual men and heterosexual women are phenotypically linked, as are heterosexual men and homosexual women. "News" of epidemiological evidence of phenotypical similarity hardly strikes me as exciting even if true.

3. There are many aspects of our brains that are affected by environment. Differences in group A's brains compared with group B's, for any given dichotomy, may be causal, an effect, coincidental, or a false finding.
 
i've always thought this is how it was. i had a gay cousin who eventually died from aids... he was always gay. always. no "choice". he was always more girl-like - long before i knew what 'gay' was... that mofo could run like nobody's business, though...

rambling...
 
sure is a lot of hatred against bigots nowadays. wait a minute...


on a more serious note, finding this difference seems logical. now the question would be, did the brain differences lead to homosexuality or did homosexuality lead to the brain differences? in the way that left handed people usually have stronger left arms then right handed people and vice versa.
 
I love it -- very interesting article posted on a thread and somebody has to come and spew hatred.

Just amazes me how people can still judge complete strangers so harshly based off of something that has absolutely zero affect on their lives.

Orangeblooded -- you make my skin crawl. People like you need to take a moment to reflect on how you treat others. Someone's choice to be with a man or a woman doesn't need to concern you. What should concern you is believing in the notion that we are all human beings and we all pay our taxes...and we all deserve the right to live our lives how we decide so long as it doesn't hurt somebody else. Comparing homosexuals to criminals who drink and drive is awesome.

It's like that dave chappelle bit about really experiencing racism for the first time..just blatant, beautiful racism. Makes you laugh because of how ignorant people can be. So thanks man, this thread has made me smile. Because no matter how innocent it starts...someone like you will come in and **** all over somebody's personal choice because something YOU believe in conflicts with it.

Absurd.
 
I never made any judgments.

We can discuss the morality of this issue on some other thread.

My point is merely this, even IF we find a "anger causing gene" it doesn't mean its ok if the person succumbs to his anger. In me, I have a "sleep with every woman that's sexy gene", but if I succumb to it, I believe its morally wrong and adultery to my wife.

Whether or not the brain/genetics predisposes someone to a certain behavior, doesn't automatically make the behavior correct or right. It might very well be, but as I just showed.... a guy who tortures babies for fun wouldn't get away with it because he had a 'gene'.
.
 
The bottom line is the article (and much other published information) says those with the different brain structure were born that way. That only leaves genetic or development in the womb causation.
And spare me the judgemental morality, particularly the part about needed to reproduce more people into an already overpopulated world.
It appears some people are born gay, and that is how they are. Get over it.
 
DAMMIT, why did people have to ruin an interesting discussion about this article without getting preachy.

brickwall.gif
 
OK, trying to get the discussion back on point.

1. One or two people have commented that maybe being gay causes the change in the brain. Can anyone explain how that could happen?

2. Lots of talk about genes. If it is actually brain related as discussed in the article, does that mean there is not a "gay" gene? Maybe everything is gene related...I don't know because that isn't my area of expertise.

3. While I hate to stereotype, I don't think anyone will disagree with this theoretical situation. Lets say you put 1,000 gay men and 1,000 straight men in a room. I feel certain that a larger percentage of the straight men would be sports fans and a larger percentage of the gay men would be into the arts. Why is that? Does it make more sense that this is socially motivated or does it make more sense that it is part of your orientation? Based on the article, I would say it is more of who you are as a person from the beginning.
 
I love how people glossed over the content of my argument and just called it 'bigoted'.

Seriously, if a person has a brain or gene that makes them pedophiles. (They are born that way, can't help but desire younger boys or girls) Would we dismiss their behavior??? Again, i'm not saying one or the other is immoral, just that BEING BORN THAT WAY does not inform us whether it is moral or not.

Also, like I've said before, I am born with a desire to sleep around. I have to fight and struggle with this desire so that I don't cheat on my wife. It would be irresponsible and maybe immoral of me to say, "To heck with it, I'm born this way... I'll have at it."

Be careful. If BORN THAT WAY is how we define moral concepts, then soon NOTHING will be unacceptable. My basic premise is that its ALL GENETIC.
 
A lot of guys like girls with big boobs. I could care less. The size of a woman's breasts has very little to do with why I find her attractive. I never recall making a conscious decision to be attracted to what I find attractive.

If Jessica Alba pulled her pants down and revealed a penis, I would be turned off. I don't feel I have a choice to say "Well, she is still hot, so I'm going to do her."
 
Orangechipper,

This seems very simple to me. Maybe we just think differently.

If someone is born a pedophile and they do nothing about it, then fine. However, if they act on it, they are hurting another person. It isn't an act between to consenting adults. If we try to ignore both the law and morality, it still comes down to hurting another person....which to me is the difference.

Adultry is a little different if you ignore the morality of it and ignore the fact it is one fo the ten commandments. I would still argue that you are hurting your wife. You are hurting her emotionally and possibly exposing her to STDs. And if we want to totally ignore morality (as you being judged by others), you still have your own personal morality. You feel it is wrong...so it is wrong.

I'm sorry, it just seems so simple to me to see the difference between those examples and being gay.
 
I don't recall if it was ever proven or not, but there were stories about some 'killer' gene? Some gene that supposedly made these serial killers more apt to kill? Does anyone else recall that?
Anyway, I would agree with those here who would state that even if such a gene existed, the action wouldn't be justified.
Now there is an argument that killers affect others, whereas homosexuality doesn't concern people not part of the 'what consenting adults do behind closed doors.' What is the average life expectancy of a gay male in the US? Is it back up over 50? I know that when I was living in Chicago it was just under 50 years of age, and close to 40 for gay men of colour. (this is what I recall from an article I read in the gay news mag that is distributed in Chicago)
The point being that if homosexuality has a biological cause, ie it is not a choice, born that way, that still doesn't make it morally right, or even beneficial.
Children are born with cystic fibrosis, and with spina bifida. We raise money to treat these. We even treat them as illnesses. What is the difference? And yes, I know that CF and SB are not behavioral in nature.
What about alcoholism? It is generally thought that people are born prone to alcoholism and that it is not a choice. Even so, we don't say it is ok for alcoholics to engage in drunkeness....
 
I love when people throw around the word "morality." Like your morals should be applied to everyone else. Guess what? They don't, nor should they.

If two men want to have sex with each other and married (yeah, I said it, big whoop, want to fight about it?) then why should it matter to anyone else's definition of morality?
 
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